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*OFFICIAL* Windsor Spitfires 2012-13 Season Thread (Part 5)

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11-20-2012, 08:16 AM
  #476
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Who's available, though?
OHLTG

I would first look at possible non playoff teams ,Peter,Ottawa,Erie and Saginaw/SSM
With Peterborough Menard and Findlay come to mine,Menard is preferable but price is going to be higher then Findlay who has struggled to find his offensive touch,but Findlay can play and would put up more pts then Clark
Ottawa has no O/As that interest me,Saginaw has Garrett Ross who does interest me though again I worry about the price,Gregg Sutch another O/a does not interest me,though 19 year old Eric Locke does,Warren already has inquires about him me thinks they will keep him for next yr
Erie has JP Labardo who has played well for a young team,a little small,but plays hard might be had for cheap
SSM has Brandon Alderson a big body forward who can score,can fite when pushed,though I wonder if SSm has an appetite to deal,that franchise needs to make the playoffs to please an uneasy fanbase
If the NHL returns possibly Niagara goes into a sell off and perhaps a player such as Shipley may be available,time will tell on that one
Now the only other possibility I can think of is Craig Hottot from Sarnia,who might be wearing out his welcome there,another team whose progress could be iinterupted by an NHL return,potential loses of Galchenyuk and Murphy,could make Hottot and Sarault expendable
Sarault price would be high,the recent injury to Justice Dundas out 4-6 weeks with shoulder injury,,might preclude a trade re Hottot,though a case for trading Clark for him ,might be feasable
Sarnia is going to want to have grit aroud now that Dundas is out
The closeness in the standings of several teams,the uncertainity as it stands to the NHL lockout makes hard to project possibe trades or pickups

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11-20-2012, 08:52 AM
  #477
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I think Ebert, Devlin and Sanvido are benefiting from playing with Sieloff - seeing how playing a sound, but rather basic, game can get you drafted in the second round of the NHL draft. Ebert came up with Ellis as his example on the team and he tried to make that his game and Ellis is a once a decade type player.

What I think is hurting Bateman though is that physical style isn't his game, he needs an offensive defenceman mentor type. I think all of our defence would benefit from playing with a veteran offensive defenceman, somebody who could play in the top four, QB the PP, provide an offensive spark.

I think Bateman needs a change of scenery though, so ideally I'd look to trade him for this offensive defenceman - a 19 yr old with strong OA return likelihood. Bateman still has to be seen as having enough potential to land such a player from a bottom feeder team - trading a 19 yr old for a 17 yr old first round pick.

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11-20-2012, 09:57 AM
  #478
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Juggy it isn't a shtick trust me. There are no tin foil conspiracy theories here, some on this board think Branch has it in for Windsor which is ridiculous in my mind those are the people with tinfoil hats. As for squandering assets look no further than a guy like Bateman. It was a huge gamble and it really hasn't paid off. I never said Rychel is a poor drafter I just think drafting has been lagging behind the past few years. Drafting can be poor if you're Peterborough, Saginaw, Sudbury where fans don't care but when the organization talks about being a flagship franchise of the league and one of the best in the CHL drafting can't lag behind. With that being said his draft this year looks better, not sure where the help on forward will come after Ho Sang if you don't get Schmaltz, you're left with Verbeek and??? Like it or not as well with Rychel he's the one responsible for the sanctions Windsor has suffered as well if you want to blame Boughner as well feel free but the sanctions still hang a cloud over the franchise. I do admit if they try and have a contender next year I think it will set the franchise back a few years just because of the sanctions they are facing and to improve the team it will probably take trading picks, young players like Bateman, Maletta etc.. maybe even a guy like Brown.

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11-20-2012, 10:20 AM
  #479
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Rychel blew it with the import draft - He thought SSM would roll over again and pass on Tolchinsky and he'd get the guy he wanted. Just like he thought Barrie would pass on Kerby I guess. He isn't proactive and takes other teams operating in their own best interest for granted. Choosing McCann over Ho-Sang isn't much, if any, real drop - but Tolchinsky vs whatever was remaining was a sizable difference.

And given what London had to pay to get Pete's pick outright it's painful that Warren didn't look to move up to guarantee the pick. Rather than paying that modest price he wanted to try and take advantage of the other teams by having Tolchinsky try to force his way to the Spits and thus have to give up nothing to get him.

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11-20-2012, 10:37 AM
  #480
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Rychel blew it with the import draft - He thought SSM would roll over again and pass on Tolchinsky and he'd get the guy he wanted. Just like he thought Barrie would pass on Kerby I guess. He isn't proactive and takes other teams operating in their own best interest for granted. Choosing McCann over Ho-Sang isn't much, if any, real drop - but Tolchinsky vs whatever was remaining was a sizable difference.

And given what London had to pay to get Pete's pick outright it's painful that Warren didn't look to move up to guarantee the pick. Rather than paying that modest price he wanted to try and take advantage of the other teams by having Tolchinsky try to force his way to the Spits and thus have to give up nothing to get him.
I understand what you're saying and on the surface it looks that way. With that being said going by what legend said a week or so ago Rychel doesn't have the greatest relationship with some GM's. Is it possible he didn't have the best of relationships with Dave Reid? Reid made it known publicly the pick was being dealt. Maybe Reid is more comfortable dealing with Hunter as opposed to Rychel which is possible as well.

In regards to Ho-Sang I am not down on him but I am starting to understand why he slid a bit and why people thought others were as deserving or more deserving to be drafted ahead of Ho-Sang. The rookie crop is quite strong this year with McDavid, Clarke, Watson, Dal Colle, Salituro, Fabbri, Bennett, and McCann. This isn't a criticism of Ho-Sang but for a guy that was hyped as much as he was I would have thought he would be out producing a lot of those guys. Of course some of them might have better supporting casts around them and that goes back to management getting talent around a guy like Ho-Sang.

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11-20-2012, 10:48 AM
  #481
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Nhl Central Scouting has released their preliminary lists. For the Spits, Rychel is the third ranked skater in the OHL, and DeKort is the 4th ranked goalie. Last week, ISS had Rychel ranked 20th overall internationally, and DeKort was ranked 9th overall. Hopefully we can see a couple more names on this list by year's end.

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11-20-2012, 11:33 AM
  #482
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Nhl Central Scouting has released their preliminary lists. For the Spits, Rychel is the third ranked skater in the OHL, and DeKort is the 4th ranked goalie. Last week, ISS had Rychel ranked 20th overall internationally, and DeKort was ranked 9th overall. Hopefully we can see a couple more names on this list by year's end.
Congrats to Rychel and DeKort. Not surprised Maletta and Bateman are not listed both have been huge disappointments. Seeing that list it bothers me to see 4 London Knights in the top 16 (3 in the top 7) and Patterson number 5 goalie. This was supposed to be a huge year for Spits being drafted but seems like it will fall short of that. Player development has to get better and drafting has to get better asap.

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11-20-2012, 01:23 PM
  #483
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I have no clue what Bateman is thinking - it's his draft year and he's not getting the ice time in Windsor. Is he blocking a trade or are the Spits refusing to trade him unless they get whatever unrealistic demand WR is making now? If it's the latter Bateman should demand a trade and leave the team like Blacker did. If it's the former he's really hurting himself, but maybe doesn't want to leave until after the high school semester is over or something.

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11-20-2012, 01:39 PM
  #484
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If you think about it, there is no way Rychel would let Bateman walk especially for what he payed for him to get to Windsor. Even if Bateman did request a trade, if Rychel feels he isn't getting enough he won't let him go.

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11-20-2012, 02:36 PM
  #485
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I have no clue what Bateman is thinking - it's his draft year and he's not getting the ice time in Windsor. Is he blocking a trade or are the Spits refusing to trade him unless they get whatever unrealistic demand WR is making now? If it's the latter Bateman should demand a trade and leave the team like Blacker did. If it's the former he's really hurting himself, but maybe doesn't want to leave until after the high school semester is over or something.
Take this for whatever it's worth, but on Saturday, Bateman and his family sat behind us in Barrie. He looked like he was into the game and fairly content. If I'm angry and want out of the team, I'm not even making the trip...or I'm at least looking like I don't want to be there.

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11-20-2012, 03:09 PM
  #486
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Take this for whatever it's worth, but on Saturday, Bateman and his family sat behind us in Barrie. He looked like he was into the game and fairly content. If I'm angry and want out of the team, I'm not even making the trip...or I'm at least looking like I don't want to be there.
Maybe he is just a good team kid.....isn't that what is expected? Don't sulk, suck it up and cheer on your teamates?

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11-20-2012, 03:59 PM
  #487
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If you think about it, there is no way Rychel would let Bateman walk especially for what he payed for him to get to Windsor. Even if Bateman did request a trade, if Rychel feels he isn't getting enough he won't let him go.
The longer you hold on to him the less you get. Cut your losses. If a wealthy business man pays too much for something and it's not making him money he doesn't hold on to that item hoping it turns around he will cut his losses

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11-20-2012, 04:12 PM
  #488
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The longer you hold on to him the less you get. Cut your losses. If a wealthy business man pays too much for something and it's not making him money he doesn't hold on to that item hoping it turns around he will cut his losses
I get what u are saying,though I dont see the spits doing anything about this player until after the xmas break
With a 22 man roster they will lose HoSang and probably Seiloff prior to and after the break,with Seiloff before and Hosang after the break
It wont be easy to move him in my view,his edc package/designation are a huge hindrance,let alone trying to maximize a return asset

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11-20-2012, 04:22 PM
  #489
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I get what u are saying,though I dont see the spits doing anything about this player until after the xmas break
With a 22 man roster they will lose HoSang and probably Seiloff prior to and after the break,with Seiloff before and Hosang after the break
It wont be easy to move him in my view,his edc package/designation are a huge hindrance,let alone trying to maximize a return asset
Amazing how quickly a player can lose his lustre.....

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11-20-2012, 07:20 PM
  #490
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Regarding Bateman if the Spits are to move him a trade I would not mind is to deal him to Missy for RW Scott Teskey-95 born winger taken 21st in last yr's draft,Bateman was chosen 19th prior to being dealt by NFalls to Windsor
This deal makes sense for a bunch of reasons,same age,identical edc pkgs,both are struggling with their respective teams and it appears a change of scenery may benefit both of them,Windsor has a need for another forward,been carrying only 12 all year,Verbeek may not be ready for full time duty,Bateman goes to a team losing Percy,Cord and Demelo next year,he would be going closer to home,better opportunity to play
Regarding Teskey he did score 57 goals in his last yr with Toronto Jr Canadiens

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11-20-2012, 08:10 PM
  #491
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I would prefer if they just got picks for Bateman. You can call up Brown and get him a taste of the OHL. If we are talking about a player coming back chances are it will be nothing more than a current 3rd or 4th rounder grinder and another underachieving player.

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11-20-2012, 08:32 PM
  #492
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I would prefer if they just got picks for Bateman. You can call up Brown and get him a taste of the OHL. If we are talking about a player coming back chances are it will be nothing more than a current 3rd or 4th rounder grinder and another underachieving player.
If I cant get a situation like Teskey then I am all for getting picks in return,otherwise I think the Teskey thing is reasonable

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11-20-2012, 08:52 PM
  #493
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We traded two seconds and Cortelessa for Marchese.
We traded Webermin for a 3rd and a 4th.

IIRC Erie kept Marchese's gold package, and Saginaw took on Webermin's. So it probably comes down to what we want to do with the education package. Given what WR paid in picks to get Bateman I don't think he'll look to trade him for picks because then the trades would be too easily comparable. He'll trade Bateman for a player and then snow job us on how good the incoming player is, his draft place and how he, like Bateman, needs a change of scenery/fresh start.

Where is Graeme Brown playing now - Vipers? How is he looking. Should we move Bateman for picks or a forward I'd bring him up and play him half the games - split the rest of the season with Bowen. McNaughton offers nothing.


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11-20-2012, 08:59 PM
  #494
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We traded two seconds and Cortelessa for Marchese.
We traded Webermin for a 3rd and a 4th.

IIRC Erie kept Marchese's gold package, and Saginaw took on Webermin's. So it probably comes down to what we want to do with the education package. Given what WR paid in picks to get Bateman I don't think he'll look to trade him for picks because then the trades would be too easily comparable. He'll trade Bateman for a player and then snow job us on how good the incoming player is, his draft place and how he, like Bateman, needs a change of scenery/fresh start.

Where is Graeme Brown playing now? How is he looking. Should we move Bateman for picks or a forward I'd bring him up and play him half the games - split the rest of the season with Bowen. McNaughton offers nothing.
Brown is playing for LaSalle,he is signed and registered with the league,understand his play has been fine,adapting to a faster pace,he has good mobility,good shot,some snarl,would not be surprised if he gets a look during the holidays,if not sooner shoulf trades occur
Like I spoke about before if u want to move Bateman his edc package could be a problem in getting a deal done

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11-20-2012, 09:13 PM
  #495
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Brown is playing for LaSalle,he is signed and registered with the league,understand his play has been fine,adapting to a faster pace,he has good mobility,good shot,some snarl,would not be surprised if he gets a look during the holidays,if not sooner shoulf trades occur
Like I spoke about before if u want to move Bateman his edc package could be a problem in getting a deal done
Educational Package won't be the problem, it would be Windsor's asking price.

Honestly fans should stop blaming the drafting on the team. You have to look at development aspect. Obviously the players have a major role in making sure they are ready to play. But for the previous 3 years excluding last year's draft the coaching staff must also be held accountable for the development of these players. There has been very little progression for players drafted in the top rounds of the draft.

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11-20-2012, 09:36 PM
  #496
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Juggy it isn't a shtick trust me. There are no tin foil conspiracy theories here, some on this board think Branch has it in for Windsor which is ridiculous in my mind those are the people with tinfoil hats. As for squandering assets look no further than a guy like Bateman. It was a huge gamble and it really hasn't paid off. I never said Rychel is a poor drafter I just think drafting has been lagging behind the past few years. Drafting can be poor if you're Peterborough, Saginaw, Sudbury where fans don't care but when the organization talks about being a flagship franchise of the league and one of the best in the CHL drafting can't lag behind. With that being said his draft this year looks better, not sure where the help on forward will come after Ho Sang if you don't get Schmaltz, you're left with Verbeek and??? Like it or not as well with Rychel he's the one responsible for the sanctions Windsor has suffered as well if you want to blame Boughner as well feel free but the sanctions still hang a cloud over the franchise. I do admit if they try and have a contender next year I think it will set the franchise back a few years just because of the sanctions they are facing and to improve the team it will probably take trading picks, young players like Bateman, Maletta etc.. maybe even a guy like Brown.
I just figured it was shtick because it was the only way I could justify in my mind that an otherwise intelligent hockey guy could come up with bon mots like Rychel being only a "3rd line grinder". Yes, I dragged that up again. It's not really fair when a critic can only remember the mistakes, is it? Anyhow, I'll agree that Branch having a grudge against Windsor is a bit tinfoil hat conspiracy. I think the more accurate view of the situation is that when Branch is handing out discipline for legitimate infractions, he finds it easier to be harsh with Windsor than he would find it if someone else like Kitchener for example, ever actually did anything less than angelic. I think that's fair to say, but that's another topic altogether.

Every team has guys who they draft that don't work out as anticipated. That's what happens when you're betting on the future of how children will develop. I don't think the drafting lately has lagged, so much as it hasn't stayed at the impossible level it was at for a stretch. You aren't going to get multiple superstars every draft, no matter who you are. We were spoiled. You like to tout London as the benchmark, but look at some of their drafts in the past. Was Zador a great pick? How was that one for asset management? That bad 1st round pick surely crippled London didn't it? They also once spent a 3rd round pick on Tucker Hunter. How's that for asset management brilliance? Every team has bum picks, but at the end of the day Windsor is still consistently putting an impressive number of able OHL players into the league with their picks. There isn't an issue with our drafting, there's an issue with your expectations of our drafting because of a once in a lifetime perfect storm of awesome that gave us two cups.

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11-20-2012, 09:46 PM
  #497
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Brown is playing for LaSalle,he is signed and registered with the league,understand his play has been fine,adapting to a faster pace,he has good mobility,good shot,some snarl,would not be surprised if he gets a look during the holidays,if not sooner shoulf trades occur
Like I spoke about before if u want to move Bateman his edc package could be a problem in getting a deal done
Bringing up Brown is the wrong idea if he is going to be a 6/7 Defenseman,if he played a regualar shift every game and got the odd special teams shift such as what Sanvido is getting then I'd be fine with him up here, but if he's going to get minimal time or and be in and out of the line up, the best thing for his development is to stay with the vipers and be in all situations and get a lot of playing time.

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11-20-2012, 09:59 PM
  #498
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Bringing up Brown is the wrong idea if he is going to be a 6/7 Defenseman,if he played a regualar shift every game and got the odd special teams shift such as what Sanvido is getting then I'd be fine with him up here, but if he's going to get minimal time or and be in and out of the line up, the best thing for his development is to stay with the vipers and be in all situations and get a lot of playing time.
I agree ,which is why I suggested he might see some action during xmas break and used as a callup otherwise

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11-21-2012, 11:12 AM
  #499
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I just figured it was shtick because it was the only way I could justify in my mind that an otherwise intelligent hockey guy could come up with bon mots like Rychel being only a "3rd line grinder". Yes, I dragged that up again. It's not really fair when a critic can only remember the mistakes, is it? Anyhow, I'll agree that Branch having a grudge against Windsor is a bit tinfoil hat conspiracy. I think the more accurate view of the situation is that when Branch is handing out discipline for legitimate infractions, he finds it easier to be harsh with Windsor than he would find it if someone else like Kitchener for example, ever actually did anything less than angelic. I think that's fair to say, but that's another topic altogether.

Every team has guys who they draft that don't work out as anticipated. That's what happens when you're betting on the future of how children will develop. I don't think the drafting lately has lagged, so much as it hasn't stayed at the impossible level it was at for a stretch. You aren't going to get multiple superstars every draft, no matter who you are. We were spoiled. You like to tout London as the benchmark, but look at some of their drafts in the past. Was Zador a great pick? How was that one for asset management? That bad 1st round pick surely crippled London didn't it? They also once spent a 3rd round pick on Tucker Hunter. How's that for asset management brilliance? Every team has bum picks, but at the end of the day Windsor is still consistently putting an impressive number of able OHL players into the league with their picks. There isn't an issue with our drafting, there's an issue with your expectations of our drafting because of a once in a lifetime perfect storm of awesome that gave us two cups.
Yes teams screw up of course London was able to ship that horrible pick of Zador to Oshawa along with Thomas and Valentine and a whack of picks for Tavares and Del Zotto. I would love if Windsor could ship Maletta, Ebert, DeKort and a whack of picks for the equivalent of that. I do like DeKort but this was only an example because I think the shine has worn off so much from Maletta you would be lucky to get a couple 3rds.

In regards to saying we were spoiled I would say that but the sanctions, 8th seed last year and this year possibly being another 8th seed I think we have really paid for that past success. It really shouldn't go that way. When London was successful they continued to be successful and bring in a lot of studs either through drafting, free agent signings or trade (Kane, Gagner, Meckler, Tavares, Del Zotto, Kadri etc..) this was all after their Memorial Cup win. Since the last Windsor cup win the same studs really haven't been there. Even over the past 2 years judging by NHL Central Scouting list the Knights will have had 12 players drafted and Windsor 6. That isn't bad but not where Windsor needs to be considering Owen Sound, Kitchener and Plymouth continue to draft and develop quite well.

Over the past 2 years it just seems Windsor hasn't been relevant when you talk about the best teams in the CHL. Mind you this isn't the same as irrelevant because that's reserved for franchises like Peterborough and Erie etc.. I would prefer if Windsor was relevant and back in the talk as a top franchise in the OHL and CHL. Being an 8th seed a couple straight years doesn't help that.

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11-21-2012, 12:00 PM
  #500
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Honestly, the Memorial Cup talk was/is great and all but I just want to see us relevant as well and competing for a title year in and year out like London.

With regards to players on this team, there should be quite a few changes and I would prefer to go younger/build with some of what we have.

Vail, Rychel, DeKort, Sanvido, Verbeek, Ho Sang, Seiloff are the only guys who shouldn't be moved in my opinion.

Anyone else, especially Bowen, McNaughton, Studnicka ,who should be moved for any picks at all could/should be expendable.

One of our issues IMO is size. We aren't very big/physical.

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