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Derrick Pouliot | Defenseman | Portland (WHL) | 1st Round, 8th overall

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Old
11-18-2012, 06:12 PM
  #526
IHWR
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Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
It's probably BS but there was also a rumor that Grigorenko was older than he claimed.
I read that as well and actually asked a few people at the draft about it. Apparently, it's pretty common for Russian players to fudge their age and our very own Evgeni Malkin was another Russian prospect that was also widely believed to be much older than he claimed during his draft...some say by as much as two years.

Nothing to confirm this besides multiple people expressing the same thoughts on the subject though so take it for what it's worth.

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11-18-2012, 09:36 PM
  #527
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And it should be. One rotten apple spoils the bunch. You can see the ebbs and flows of the Capitals organization with Semin there. You can also see how AO's personality dictates how that locker room is. You don't need that, regardless of how talented a player is. Is and unnecessary headache.

Let's use Semin as an example for Grigorenko...he scores 30-40 goals a year, but is he helping the team really when members of the team come out, on the record, and state how he's just a completely **** teammate?
Semin is pretty much a worst-case scenario though, attitude-wise. It's not that I don't think character should be a factor, I just think our staff may be putting too much emphasis on familiarity and "intangibles" when determining their teenaged BPA...at the expense of honest-to-God talent (which should probably be at least as high on their priority list, one would think).

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I loved Grigorenko's skill, and I'd be completely lying if I didn't think that it'd be awesome watching him here. When I think about drafting him rationally though, it makes less and less sense. Starting with the fact that he'd have to switch positions here, and we know how people feel about a center being moved to wing around these parts.
But again, if we're going with the BPA philosophy, that shouldn't be a factor at all.

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11-19-2012, 08:49 AM
  #528
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I've thought before,during and after the pick that we should've taken Forsberg. However we won't know for 2 years (minimium) how this will pan out.

Is it typical that a top 8 pick takes probably 3 years to see NHL action?
Looking at previous drafts it seems like top 8 selections are either in their pro contract right away and in the AHL or they are in the NHL that season. If figure DP is 2 years from an ELC. 1 year in the A. (worst case, best case he's in the A next year)

I know every draft the talent level varies, and I'm not sure how far away Forsberg is (my pick for 8), but it seems a bit of a head scratcher that you get a top 8 pick that is a good number of years away.

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11-19-2012, 10:01 AM
  #529
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Originally Posted by vikingGoalie View Post
I've thought before,during and after the pick that we should've taken Forsberg. However we won't know for 2 years (minimium) how this will pan out.

Is it typical that a top 8 pick takes probably 3 years to see NHL action?
Looking at previous drafts it seems like top 8 selections are either in their pro contract right away and in the AHL or they are in the NHL that season. If figure DP is 2 years from an ELC. 1 year in the A. (worst case, best case he's in the A next year)

I know every draft the talent level varies, and I'm not sure how far away Forsberg is (my pick for 8), but it seems a bit of a head scratcher that you get a top 8 pick that is a good number of years away.
I think pouliot will be back in the whl next year. Unless the baby pens clean house in some serious trades with their d there is no point in rushing him in. Joe morrow is already the product of too many d men and not enough spots

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11-19-2012, 10:44 AM
  #530
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Originally Posted by Hottubber View Post
I think pouliot will be back in the whl next year. Unless the baby pens clean house in some serious trades with their d there is no point in rushing him in. Joe morrow is already the product of too many d men and not enough spots
Well Pouliot can't play in the AHL untill 2014/15, so it's either NHL or Juniores for him until then.

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11-19-2012, 11:29 AM
  #531
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Most 8th overall picks don't go to cup contenders, either.

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11-19-2012, 03:04 PM
  #532
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Personally, if I hadto select a D, Trouba would've been my man. He's replace Orpik perfectly (& then some, if you ask some scouts).

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11-19-2012, 03:19 PM
  #533
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Most 8th overall picks don't go to cup contenders, either.
true, but other teams that are decent playoff teams have drafted that high and their prospects do not take 3 years of seasoning before being an NHL regulare.

Heck philly drafted Sean Couturier 8th the year before and he was immediately in the NHL. NJ drafted a top N pick and they went to the finals.

Just saying I know every prospect/position is different and all that, but there are definite picks in the top 10 that make an impact long before 2 seasons in the WHL, 1 season in the AHL. Perhaps he shortens that by a year, but I don't see DP cracking the Pens line up for another 2.5 years.

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11-19-2012, 04:36 PM
  #534
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I think the Pens organizationally value more of what Pouliot brings than Trouba. I don't think they wanted another Orpik with that pick. They wanted a shot at another big time PMD that they will either use themselves or flip for a kings ransom like Gogo for Neal/Niskanen.

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11-19-2012, 05:11 PM
  #535
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A middle pair defenseman who can put up 40-50 points and play average defensively can fetch you pretty much anything you want.

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11-19-2012, 07:02 PM
  #536
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A middle pair defenseman who can put up 40-50 points and play average defensively can fetch you pretty much anything you want.
The only problem is that he's gonna have to jump over so many players to get NHL ice time. Gogo got traded something like 7 years after he was drafted and he had much less competition than DP does with the Pens D prospects.

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11-19-2012, 07:08 PM
  #537
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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
The only problem is that he's gonna have to jump over so many players to get NHL ice time. Gogo got traded something like 7 years after he was drafted and he had much less competition than DP does with the Pens D prospects.
It is way too early to even use that logic. You have no way of knowing how the Pens D core will look like 2 years from now. For all we know 1 or 2 of those prospects get moved and the competition that DP will have will be less.

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11-19-2012, 07:50 PM
  #538
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Originally Posted by SprootsMasterFlex View Post
Personally, if I hadto select a D, Trouba would've been my man. He's replace Orpik perfectly (& then some, if you ask some scouts).
Yah but you don't draft an Orpik replacement (one dimensional shut-down guy whose game is based around physical play more than skill) in the Top 10 picks. You draft him in the 3rd or 4th round ideally.

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11-19-2012, 08:00 PM
  #539
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I have no problem with Pouliot's position or the potential length of his development so long as he ends up being better than Grigorenko and Forsberg, the two high-end skill guys projected to go much earlier.

If you're going off the board with what's likely the only top 10 pick of your superstar's primes, you either get it right, or you leave yourself open to criticism.

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11-19-2012, 08:36 PM
  #540
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having depres morrow and pouliot in the pipe give the pens unreal mobility on the back end for the future..they needed a player like pouliot in the system badly ever since goligoski got moved and gonchar was traded...letang cant do it all himself

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11-20-2012, 12:06 AM
  #541
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Originally Posted by malkovsby View Post
having depres morrow and pouliot in the pipe give the pens unreal mobility on the back end for the future..they needed a player like pouliot in the system badly ever since goligoski got moved and gonchar was traded...letang cant do it all himself
Neither can Sid or Geno. Who is in the pipeline there? Not saying you are wrong, I just don't get that kind of rationalization.

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11-20-2012, 12:22 AM
  #542
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Neither can Sid or Geno. Who is in the pipeline there? Not saying you are wrong, I just don't get that kind of rationalization.
That's why you always take the BPA regardless of position.

I'm not convinced the Pens took the BPA at #8. Based on the way the Pens have drafted and where the strength of their scouts are, I'm convinced the Pens drafted a player they liked a lot and wanted based on how much they saw him due to drafting Morrow previously. There's nothing wrong with that either. I think there was a group of players that they probably all had rated close and they took Pouliot due to their familiarity with him. They knew what they were getting with him more than the others available IMO.

Also, Shero and Bylsma put a premium on defensemen who can skate and play the transition game. They've mentioned this countless number of times in previous interviews about what they like in defensemen. I heard them mention this a number of times when they acquired Paul Martin as well

That said, I don't hate the Pouliot pick. I understand it. I think it was smart in ways since if he and Morrow work out, they'll have a top pairing/PP pairing for many years. Morrow has the shot and Pouliot is the playmaker.

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11-20-2012, 12:48 PM
  #543
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Neither can Sid or Geno. Who is in the pipeline there? Not saying you are wrong, I just don't get that kind of rationalization.
The rationalization comes from. We have a complete top prospect fielded pipeline on defense. In the next 1-3 seasons it'll allow us to ship off current d, nisky, orpik, etc or lower prospect/d-role players strait or borts or the like to gain forwards. This is how we got Kunitz, Neal, and Tangradi (hasn't worked out but still notable as a trade). It's a process proven to work.

We are good as a organization at developing defense. Build from it in every way possible.

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11-20-2012, 01:27 PM
  #544
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Remember guys in all these armchair Draft discussions... our assistant coach came right out and said a day or two later... that part of the reason the Pens stockpile talented D, is because they can turn them into other assets. The Pens' MO has never been (in recent times) to draft offensive skill. They trade for it, or in this summer's case attempt to sign it. Hossa, Neal, then Parise.

[added: In short they probably feel they're in a much better position to draft high quality D (with their specific scouts and managerial talents) and trade for offense when needed, then drafting it. Because to them drafting big upside forwards has more risk than big upside D. And they're probably right. It's harder to predict whether a F, put into a system like ours, is going to pan out vs. a D that you know has all the skating, size and skills. Better to just go and get the F you know will fit from day 1.]

I'm not saying they'll trade Pouliot specifically but they'll trade someone most likely. Could be Despres, could be Pouliot, could be Maatta (someone who was pretty highly touted). Add a pick in there and the Pens could turn any one of those guys into a decent forward return. Maybe not another James Neal but potentially a Kunitz type, a reliable 25-28 G type who can dish / has some hockey smarts. That's all Sid and Geno need. A few guys like that who can give them options / fill in when one of the other wingers gets hurt.


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11-20-2012, 01:35 PM
  #545
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Remember guys in all these armchair Draft discussions... our assistant coach came right out and said a day or two later... that part of the reason the Pens stockpile talented D, is because they can turn them into other assets. The Pens' MO has never been (in recent times) to draft offensive skill. They trade for it, or in this summer's case attempt to sign it. Hossa, Neal, then Parise.

I'm not saying they'll trade Pouliot specifically but they'll trade someone most likely. Could be Despres, could be Pouliot, could be Maatta (someone who was pretty highly touted). Add a pick in there and the Pens could turn any one of those guys into a decent forward return. Maybe not another James Neal but potentially a Kunitz type, a reliable 25-28 G type who can dish / has some hockey smarts. That's all Sid and Geno need. A few guys like that who can give them options / fill in when one of the other wingers gets hurt.
Plus a guy thats scoring already in the NHL is less of a question mark.

I'm still not sold on going BDA but for a team thats been at the top of the league the past few years... the Pens prospect list looks really good.

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11-20-2012, 01:40 PM
  #546
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Plus a guy thats scoring already in the NHL is less of a question mark.

I'm still not sold on going BDA but for a team thats been at the top of the league the past few years... the Pens prospect list looks really good.
Right. Sort of like, in their system with their scouting record, they can be 80% sure a D they pick early is going to become a stud / very reliable player / a good trade asset. Whereas if they drafted a F with upside, it would be much more of a crap-shoot unless you're trading up for a sure thing (someone like Eberle, Seguin, etc). Or like the Blues did with Tarasenko. There was no one in this year's draft at position 8 who is remotely comparable though. After the first 3 picks, the Tarasenko types (Yakupov and his homey) were gone. Offensively this was a very thin draft. In 2010 Tarasenko was picked at [16] so that draft was relatively deep in terms of big offensive talents that were more or less a sure thing.

So they go with the D and trade to get the 0% risk forward or sign one if they think they can during the summer.

WRT to drafting BDA, I think that's just in the nature of fans. Fans always want to see someone picked who has offensive firepower. Nothing wrong with that.


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11-20-2012, 01:56 PM
  #547
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In fact, as I look at the 2010 1st round it's pretty shocking the level of talent that was there throughout the round. Might not be topped for a long time.

1. Hall (producing in NHL at high level)
2. Seguin (producing in NHL at high level)
5. Niederreiter (not a bust yet but until recently, struggling with health and production - still a big talent though)
7. Skinner (producing in NHL at high level)
8. Burmistrov (in the NHL, struggling but shows flashes of great play - probably needs another year)
9. Granlund (likely to make Wild's Top 6)
14. J. Schwartz (likely to be in NHL soon, Top 6 potential)
16. Tarasenko (likely to make Blues' Top 6)
18. Watson (not as big a talent as some of these guys but basically NHL ready)
19. Bjugstad (will be in NHL soon)
20. Dangles (remains to be seen but has the potential to make our Top 6 in the next 12 months)

This year's crop of F is pretty crappy compared to that, no?


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11-20-2012, 02:51 PM
  #548
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I read that as well and actually asked a few people at the draft about it. Apparently, it's pretty common for Russian players to fudge their age and our very own Evgeni Malkin was another Russian prospect that was also widely believed to be much older than he claimed during his draft...some say by as much as two years.

Nothing to confirm this besides multiple people expressing the same thoughts on the subject though so take it for what it's worth.
I heard from my one FB russian friend that Yakupov is actually '91. born, while Grigorenko is '92. I asked about Malkin, he said wouldn't be suprised if he has "fake" birthlist as well.

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11-20-2012, 05:19 PM
  #549
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In Soviet Russia, birth certificate fake you!

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11-20-2012, 05:47 PM
  #550
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If we can get our defensemen to develop, that'd leave a boatload of cash to add some weaponry up front.

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