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Worst Playoff Performer to Win the Smythe

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Old
11-19-2012, 09:20 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Perhaps, but when Parent's are two of the best performances ever, and one of Giguere's is nothing special from a Cup winning perspective then I think you see the difference.
No one would have batted an eye had he won a second Conn Smythe, but sure, pretend it was like any other playoff...

Giguere hasn't played enough outside of 2003 and 2007 to be named. It's absurd. He has, what, one full series (2008)? Half of another because of injury (2006)? How many opportunities did Parent have to replicate any form of success? So why does Giguere get named alongside Cam Ward?


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Originally Posted by jkrx View Post
I always found it quite strange that both Bryzgalov and Giguere had the same SV% during the cup run. Feels as if that was more of a defense effort than Giguere standing on his head.
Giguere was the playoff leader in save percentage after the first round and after the second round. His statistics dropped because save percentage is an averaging stat and he had a single bad game against both Detroit and Ottawa in-between stealing games against them. The Detroit series in particular is a demonstration that one cannot judge a goaltender by a cumulative save percentage in a single series. He had a .909, but ask any of the Detroit skaters, and they'll tell you why they lost the series. Re-watch Games 4, 5, and 6.

If he gets the start against Minnesota (which he would have if not for his son), he wins the Conn Smythe. Easily. Unfortunately, some things are bigger than hockey, and Carlyle didn't want to risk Giguere's mind being somewhere else despite Giguere's own protests that he was ready to go.

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11-19-2012, 10:44 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by jack mullet View Post
where are you getting your stats from?

Hextall had a .908 save% and a 2.77 GAA in the playoffs. .902 and 3.00 were his regular season stats.

Hardly mind blowing by today's standards but you have to remember what hockey was like in the 80's.

don't get me wrong, i DONT think he should have won it that year. i would have given it to either Glenn Anderson[/B] or Messier
.

moose sure and even Wayne or Jari ahead of Anderson

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11-19-2012, 11:12 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quoipourquoi View Post
No one would have batted an eye had he won a second Conn Smythe, but sure, pretend it was like any other playoff...

Giguere hasn't played enough outside of 2003 and 2007 to be named. It's absurd. He has, what, one full series (2008)? Half of another because of injury (2006)? How many opportunities did Parent have to replicate any form of success? So why does Giguere get named alongside Cam Ward?
A couple things; for starters you can't give credit to a goalie for playoff heroics when he isn't there in the first place. And even when he is there, Giguere was mediocre at best outside of those two years. You can't be a "great" playoff performer if you aren't in the playoffs in the first place either.

Plus Parent carried those Flyers teams. He won the Smythe twice in a row going against Clarke. He beat two very offensively talented teams in the final in back to back years. Then he had some injuries and did alright later on but certainly not great, retiring in 1979. There was a period of hockey when Parent was the bread and butter of goaltending, not Giguere. Those two years are such a high ceiling that it makes up for any other lost time with him.

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11-19-2012, 11:58 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
A couple things; for starters you can't give credit to a goalie for playoff heroics when he isn't there in the first place. And even when he is there, Giguere was mediocre at best outside of those two years. You can't be a "great" playoff performer if you aren't in the playoffs in the first place either.

Plus Parent carried those Flyers teams. He won the Smythe twice in a row going against Clarke. He beat two very offensively talented teams in the final in back to back years. Then he had some injuries and did alright later on but certainly not great, retiring in 1979. There was a period of hockey when Parent was the bread and butter of goaltending, not Giguere. Those two years are such a high ceiling that it makes up for any other lost time with him.
agreed. but surely you at the same time would concede that '03 giguere hit a very high ceiling (though lower than parent and '93 roy) and has significant separation from the field (hextall, ranford, ward, thomas, quick), right?

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11-20-2012, 01:39 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
You can't be a "great" playoff performer if you aren't in the playoffs in the first place either.
Nor can you be the "worst" one to ever win a Conn Smythe. That's what this thread is about!

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11-21-2012, 04:19 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkrx View Post
I always found it quite strange that both Bryzgalov and Giguere had the same SV% during the cup run. Feels as if that was more of a defense effort than Giguere standing on his head.
No way, Giguere was the no.1 reason Anaheim beat Detroit in the WCF's in 2007, he should have won the CS again, but I think the voters didn't want a non hall of fame goalie winning two of them in his career, incidentally, I felt they awarded it to Niedermayer as a career achievement/repay for 2003 when many felt he should have won then

People love to rip Giguere but the numbers speak for themselves 33-17 career in playoffs 2.08/.925% 12-1 career overtime. best overtime goalie in NHL history, "deal with it" as the children say


Last edited by KEEROLE Vatanen: 11-21-2012 at 04:26 AM.
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11-21-2012, 11:36 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
I think the voters didn't want a non hall of fame goalie winning two of them in his career
I doubt it was that. At the time, I would have bet my house that he would have had a HOF career. Same with Getzlaf in 2009, come to think of it.


I should never gamble on Ducks.

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11-21-2012, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
No way, Giguere was the no.1 reason Anaheim beat Detroit in the WCF's in 2007, he should have won the CS again, but I think the voters didn't want a non hall of fame goalie winning two of them in his career, incidentally, I felt they awarded it to Niedermayer as a career achievement/repay for 2003 when many felt he should have won then

People love to rip Giguere but the numbers speak for themselves 33-17 career in playoffs 2.08/.925% 12-1 career overtime. best overtime goalie in NHL history, "deal with it" as the children say
Whut? I mean Roy's career overlapped with Giguere, it's not like he was a couple decades ahead of him and he's an unknown commodity.

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11-21-2012, 11:55 AM
  #34
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Parent had to retire because he lost an eye due to a hockey stick

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11-21-2012, 02:24 PM
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Parent had to retire because he lost an eye due to a hockey stick
He didn't lose the eye.

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11-21-2012, 02:25 PM
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11-21-2012, 04:48 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quoipourquoi View Post
Nor can you be the "worst" one to ever win a Conn Smythe. That's what this thread is about!
The title does say "Worst playoff performer" to win the Smythe right? If he's not even getting to the postseason that doesn't help him either. A bunch of first round losses are better than not showing up because it shows you were at least involved. And no, Giguere isn't the worst.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
People love to rip Giguere but the numbers speak for themselves 33-17 career in playoffs 2.08/.925% 12-1 career overtime. best overtime goalie in NHL history, "deal with it" as the children say
Patrick Roy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
agreed. but surely you at the same time would concede that '03 giguere hit a very high ceiling (though lower than parent and '93 roy) and has significant separation from the field (hextall, ranford, ward, thomas, quick), right?
I don't know if there is "significant" seperation with those in brackets. Giguere is better than many of them but like those goalies he has little else to offer outside of his Smythe year. There isn't a lot of difference from Giguere and Hextall or Ranford for instance.

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11-21-2012, 04:53 PM
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He lost most of his vision in his eye due to a stick hitting the eye

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11-21-2012, 05:45 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
The title does say "Worst playoff performer" to win the Smythe right? If he's not even getting to the postseason that doesn't help him either. A bunch of first round losses are better than not showing up because it shows you were at least involved. And no, Giguere isn't the worst.
Are you saying that players get to the playoffs by being good playoff performers? Does that not defeat the purpose of isolating players' playoff and regular season performances?

I'm pretty sure this line of discussion sprung up because of Cam Ward, not Giguere. Nothing in Ward's career suggests that he doesn't perform well in playoff situations.

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11-21-2012, 09:48 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
Whut? I mean Roy's career overlapped with Giguere, it's not like he was a couple decades ahead of him and he's an unknown commodity.
It's probably a 1-2 situation there. I'd be hesitant to say Giguere because Roy's had a 12-consecutive playoff overtime winning streak, but Giguere might have actually played more minutes in those 12 than Roy did for his entire Montreal career. Just eyeballing Giguere's numbers has him around 233 minutes of overtime with one GA.

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11-22-2012, 03:26 PM
  #41
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Wow, are people really saying MacInnis? Mac's point totals would great for a FORWARD. I always see Plus Minus touted as a "weak statistic" on HF, yet it's being used to detract MacInnis' playoff resume. Playing on terrible teams, like the early 90s Flames teams will hurt your plus minus.

Scott Niedermayer only has a +20 and he has played on better teams than MacInnis. Eric Desjardins only has a +16, and that's only with 16 less points than Niedermayer in 34 less games.

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