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Are the fastest NHL skaters really all that fast?

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Old
11-20-2012, 03:01 PM
  #51
Zoombie
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For what its worth Yellowstone I thought it was an interesting idea. You didn't make the argument that these kids therefore have NHL skating ability, just that they can go pretty fast (straightline) too and thats not unreasonable.

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11-20-2012, 03:38 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
The rink wouldn't be any smaller... NA rinks are NA sized. There isn't any difference. What you have to realize is that in those skating competitions pretty much any NHL player is going to be within a second to a second and a half of each other because of how small the course is.

Most players that have played for a long time (not even talking NHL guys) can fly at top speed... the difference with NHL guys is the explosiveness and of course the fact that they can go that fast with the puck.
TC, as someone who builds dasher boards for NHL, KHL, NCAA and community rinks, I can tell you that this is the most wrong you've been in years.

To be clear, *I build the very rinks you are discussing*. These rinks are *not* all the same. In any given week, we will have to build a couple rinks, one scheduled for twice as many man hours as the next. Know why?


Last edited by FrozenJagrt: 11-20-2012 at 03:51 PM.
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11-20-2012, 03:46 PM
  #53
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Thanks Zoombie

Thanks Zoombie. I did take quite a beating today... but that's OK... the discuss was pretty passionate (as it should be with hockey).

For those that are interested, I'm going to start a new thread on how to set up and time an NHL style speed skating course. Maybe some of the faster skaters on this board can give it a try and post their times.

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11-20-2012, 03:49 PM
  #54
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Record a video of yourself skating and you'll realize how slow you really are. I'm slow as mollasses on ice despite having a decent forward stride. That speed drops tenfold when I pick up the puck.

I'm pretty sure Jason Allison was a faster skater than I am now.

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11-20-2012, 03:50 PM
  #55
TieClark
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Originally Posted by Ace14 View Post
TC, as someone who builds dasher boards for NHL, KHL, NCAA and community rinks, I can tell you that this is the most wrong you've been in years.
I suggest you come take it up with the GTA arena's then because they're all the same size generally speaking.

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11-20-2012, 03:52 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
I suggest you come take it up with the GTA arena's then because they're all the same size generally speaking.
I suggest you read my edit. I work at Sport Systems Unlimited, I build the very dasher boards that you use to stop yourself.

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11-20-2012, 03:56 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Ace14 View Post
I suggest you read my edit. I work at Sport Systems Unlimited, I build the very dasher boards that you use to stop yourself.
I'm aware of what you do. I'm also aware of how these rinks are designed. The majority of them have 2 or 4 rinks in them. They are designed at the common NA sized ice on either sides of the rinks (2 on each side if there are 4 rinks) and the rest of the arena is then built around them. The entire facilities are designed for standard NA sized rinks. There isn't any changes to the size of the rinks other than giving or taking a few feet in the process of the construction.

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11-20-2012, 04:02 PM
  #58
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I don't know if this has been mentioned but op, what you are referring to is north-south straight line speed. Same as a 40 yard dash, there are many kids, adults who are fast running 40 yards in a straight line and there probably is a kid in every high school who has close to NFL speed or close to NHL skating speed in a straight line.

What is exceptional about professional athletes is the power and quickness of their strides and how they can maintain the same exceptionally high speeds while maintaing possession, making lateral movements and maintaing a strong center of balance as to not get knocked out of the athletic position. Also the athletes will be able to maintain their high speeds over longer periods, hence their superior conitioning.

So yes, if you raced Andrew Cogliano vs an exceptionally fast skater in a NHL skills competition format skate, yeah I'm sure you could find a kid who is close to or faster then the NHL player.. Does the application mean much, no.....

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11-20-2012, 04:03 PM
  #59
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I don't know how else I can say it, you are wrong. And you can tell me that you know how they are designed, but you're talking to a guy that handles the blueprints for them every single day, who builds them, who signs off on the quality checks, who skids them to be shipped.

You can have rinks with 80 boards, you can have rinks with 120 boards. The standard sized board for a pro series rink (which are the kind you find yourself playing on) is 42 by 96 inches, with variances for return boards, man gates, radius boards and machine gates. But you do the math, if 90% of the boards are 8 feet long, and some rinks have 80 boards while others have 120, you tell me how every NA rink is the same size give or take a foot.

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11-20-2012, 04:19 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Ace14 View Post
I don't know how else I can say it, you are wrong. And you can tell me that you know how they are designed, but you're talking to a guy that handles the blueprints for them every single day, who builds them, who signs off on the quality checks, who skids them to be shipped.

You can have rinks with 80 boards, you can have rinks with 120 boards. The standard sized board for a pro series rink (which are the kind you find yourself playing on) is 42 by 96 inches, with variances for return boards, man gates, radius boards and machine gates. But you do the math, if 90% of the boards are 8 feet long, and some rinks have 80 boards while others have 120, you tell me how every NA rink is the same size give or take a foot.
I didn't say you can't make different sized rinks. The fact remains almost all rinks in the GTA area are the same size which is 200 by 85. Whether or not butt **** nowhere builds a rink at a random size is irrelevant imo. When the plans are made for these facilities, and there is a hell of a lot of them, they are designed around rinks that are 200 by 85.

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11-20-2012, 04:25 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
I didn't say you can't make different sized rinks. The fact remains almost all rinks in the GTA area are the same size which is 200 by 85. Whether or not butt **** nowhere builds a rink at a random size is irrelevant imo. When the plans are made for these facilities, and there is a hell of a lot of them, they are designed around rinks that are 200 by 85.
You argued that NA rinks are NA rinks with no variation and are backing to GTA rinks and you're still wrong. Tie, think about it for a second. You are disputing the word of a guy who works for the world's leader in dasher boards. Come on. I build those rinks brother. Every day.

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11-20-2012, 04:33 PM
  #62
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Dude the point is they AREN'T all 85x200, even the ones you're saying are "standard" size. Some are 196, some are 192, etc. stop insisting you're an expert you have been pretty conclusively shown otherwise. Yes, if you ask you'll be told the rink is "standard sized" and yes, it will look standard to you but are you really claiming you can eyeball the difference between 82x194 and 85x200? Even when the guy drawing the blue prints tells you otherwise? Again the argument isn't us implying somehow the rinks you skate on are "unofficial" or somehow subpar. Why are you taking this personally? The point is that outside of 100% regulated rinks for professional caliber competition, hardly any two rinks are identical. As we've said many times now that is simply wrong and virtually every rink varies. We're not trying to say 'oh you amateur, you play on a 180 foot sheet'. We're saying you can't compare players on two separate sheets of ice by eyeballing it like the OP because virtually all rinks have subtle differences in dimensions.

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11-20-2012, 04:34 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Ace14 View Post
You argued that NA rinks are NA rinks with no variation and are backing to GTA rinks and you're still wrong. Tie, think about it for a second. You are disputing the word of a guy who works for the world's leader in dasher boards. Come on. I build those rinks brother. Every day.
Poorly worded on my part because I can only speak for my area, but my area is the largest hockey area in the world. I'm not wrong about the GTA... the way the facilities are designed, they are structured to fit either 2 or 4, 200 by 85 rinks. I understand you work for a company that builds the boards.. that doesn't change the fact that, that is in fact how it's done here. I sharpen skates... I would never, ever tell someone to sharpen their skates certain ways but that doesn't mean that it isn't done or that I can't do it.

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11-20-2012, 04:35 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by MPF24 View Post
Dude the point is they AREN'T all 85x200, even the ones you're saying are "standard" size. Some are 196, some are 192, etc. stop insisting you're an expert you have been pretty conclusively shown otherwise. Yes, if you ask you'll be told the rink is "standard sized" and yes, it will look standard to you but are you really claiming you can eyeball the difference between 82x194 and 85x200? Even when the guy drawing the blue prints tells you otherwise? Again the argument isn't us implying somehow the rinks you skate on are "unofficial" or somehow subpar. Why are you taking this personally? The point is that outside of 100% regulated rinks for professional caliber competition, hardly any two rinks are identical. As we've said many times now that is simply wrong and virtually every rink varies. We're not trying to say 'oh you amateur, you play on a 180 foot sheet'. We're saying you can't compare players on two separate sheets of ice by eyeballing it like the OP because virtually all rinks have subtle differences in dimensions.
But that was the point entirely... If they're off by a few feet in the process of the construction their still the standard 200 by 85. Such minute details doesn't change that fact unless you're the most anal person in the world.

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11-20-2012, 04:36 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
I didn't say you can't make different sized rinks. The fact remains almost all rinks in the GTA area are the same size which is 200 by 85. Whether or not butt **** nowhere builds a rink at a random size is irrelevant imo. When the plans are made for these facilities, and there is a hell of a lot of them, they are designed around rinks that are 200 by 85.
I like that you've whittled it down from north America to Toronto between your initial post and now, and you're still wrong.

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11-20-2012, 04:43 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by MW View Post
I like that you've whittled it down from north America to Toronto between your initial post and now, and you're still wrong.
The only way you can think I'm wrong is if you'd tell a person who ran a mile that they only ran .95 of a mile. It has now gone to "well not every rink is exactly 200 by 85... some are 205 by 90" when in reality they're all built on the premise of 200 by 85

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11-20-2012, 04:45 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
But that was the point entirely... If they're off by a few feet in the process of the construction their still the standard 200 by 85. Such minute details doesn't change that fact unless you're the most anal person in the world.
But 6 feet difference (twice, because of the format of the race) absolutely does make a difference and that is the ENTIRE point of the argument in this thread. When did a thread about a teen in a random rink that may be off by who knows how much outskating the NHLs reigning fastest skater become about YOUR rinks and whether or not a few feet prevents them from being considered "standard"? The entire point was even if that kid was on a "standard" rink it still may be shorter, skewing the results.

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11-20-2012, 04:47 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
The only way you can think I'm wrong is if you'd tell a person who ran a mile that they only ran .95 of a mile. It has now gone to "well not every rink is exactly 200 by 85... some are 205 by 90" when in reality they're all built on the premise of 200 by 85
Holy crap man. This is a thread about a RACE. If someone only ran .95 miles in a race you're right I'd tell them! If Hagelin skates .95 of a lap faster than Greening skates a lap, does Hagelin still win since, eh, the difference between a lap and .95 is just being anal?

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11-20-2012, 04:50 PM
  #69
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11-20-2012, 04:59 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
Poorly worded on my part because I can only speak for my area, but my area is the largest hockey area in the world. I'm not wrong about the GTA... the way the facilities are designed, they are structured to fit either 2 or 4, 200 by 85 rinks. I understand you work for a company that builds the boards.. that doesn't change the fact that, that is in fact how it's done here. I sharpen skates... I would never, ever tell someone to sharpen their skates certain ways but that doesn't mean that it isn't done or that I can't do it.
Are you under the impression that my company sends boards to everywhere in the world (and I mean everywhere, we've done rinks in Bermuda for crying out loud) EXCEPT the GTA?

It is one thing to try and tell someone how they should do something, it is entirely another to tell someone how something is done. You are trying to tell me that I don't know how rinks in the GTA are built, and I am telling you that I am the one building those bloody rinks. I don't care what size the buildings are, I know what size the rinks themselves are.

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11-20-2012, 05:03 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
I apologize that I'm not aware of how things are done in the middle of no where. In the GTA.... rinks are the same size unless you're playing on international sized ice.
Apology accepted.

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11-20-2012, 05:05 PM
  #72
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Holy crap man. This is a thread about a RACE. If someone only ran .95 miles in a race you're right I'd tell them! If Hagelin skates .95 of a lap faster than Greening skates a lap, does Hagelin still win since, eh, the difference between a lap and .95 is just being anal?
In this comparison no... you are not going to notice a couple feet difference from 2 separate videos and that was the point. One wasn't international ice compared to NA ice.

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Originally Posted by Ace14 View Post
Are you under the impression that my company sends boards to everywhere in the world (and I mean everywhere, we've done rinks in Bermuda for crying out loud) EXCEPT the GTA?

It is one thing to try and tell someone how they should do something, it is entirely another to tell someone how something is done. You are trying to tell me that I don't know how rinks in the GTA are built, and I am telling you that I am the one building those bloody rinks. I don't care what size the buildings are, I know what size the rinks themselves are.
No I'm saying this is how they're built in the GTA. I'm sure you provide boards that would fit the 200 by 85.

It has nothing to do with the size of the rink. They're designed to fit around 200 by 85 rinks. Whether or not the rinks may be off by a foot or 2 wasn't the point.

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11-20-2012, 05:08 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
In this comparison no... you are not going to notice a couple feet difference from 2 separate videos and that was the point. One wasn't international ice compared to NA ice.


No I'm saying this is how they're built in the GTA. I'm sure you provide boards that would fit the 200 by 85.

It has nothing to do with the size of the rink. They're designed to fit around 200 by 85 rinks. Whether or not the rinks may be off by a foot or 2 wasn't the point.
What are you talking about?!?!?!

It's either the same distance or it's not. End of the story. You're actually saying that, in a race, you WOULDN'T tell the guy who only completed .95 laps that it was less? I mean, you're literally JUST being dense because you can't admit you're wrong. Holy cow man. At least I know I don't need to engage you in this conversation anymore; once you stop arguing with logic, the argument is over.


Apparently it was to everybody but you. When we ALL said not all rinks are the same, we weren't trying to convince you that you're skating on an international "style" rink versus a standard "style" rink. We were literally saying that even "standard" rinks vary by a few feet all over the place. You are the only one who didn't get that.

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11-20-2012, 05:11 PM
  #74
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Thanks Zoombie. I did take quite a beating today... but that's OK... the discuss was pretty passionate (as it should be with hockey).

For those that are interested, I'm going to start a new thread on how to set up and time an NHL style speed skating course. Maybe some of the faster skaters on this board can give it a try and post their times.
Can I just do a long straight line? Other than turning, i am great.

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11-20-2012, 05:16 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
In this comparison no... you are not going to notice a couple feet difference from 2 separate videos and that was the point. One wasn't international ice compared to NA ice.


No I'm saying this is how they're built in the GTA. I'm sure you provide boards that would fit the 200 by 85.

It has nothing to do with the size of the rink. They're designed to fit around 200 by 85 rinks. Whether or not the rinks may be off by a foot or 2 wasn't the point.
You ever watch a situation so embarrassing for someone it's hard to watch? They often decide to throw random insults or nitpick tiny little details because they can't just say, ooops.

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