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Phoenix LXIV: Will You Still Need Me, Will You Still Read Me, on Thread LXIV?

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Old
11-20-2012, 05:30 PM
  #901
Whileee
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Looks like the "with Coyotes" scenario costs about $25 million more over the first five years. Hard to see the slides

Main difference in the scenario is that they have added inflation (3% per year) for the non-Coyotes AMF (starting at $6 million per year).

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11-20-2012, 05:31 PM
  #902
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Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
Scruggs figured out that the "smartest thing" for Jamison to do is to wait to purchase the team until the end of the season. Then he gets $11 million with only minor penalties payable to the COG. I hope Jamison isn't listening.
I have a quote from 3 years ago somewhere where I said the same basic thing. I have never understood why any of the potential buyers would want to buy this team mid-season.

The smartest thing to do would be to announce that you are buying the team affective next season. That way 2 things happen:

- The fans know that the team has a new owner starting the next season and those that are fans will flock back to the team and buy STs etc.

- The CoG / NHL is left covering the losses in the current season. Me as the buyer don't start paying the bills until the up coming season.

In Jamisons case, the agreement was for just $11M (year 1 ) minus $60,000 or whatever for every game missed due to the current lockout. The best thing for him financially is to forget this season and start getting $14M for next season.

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11-20-2012, 05:33 PM
  #903
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Originally Posted by Major4Boarding View Post
My apologies CBC... the context I took it as was that Frate's mindset of (theory only) $11MM for 3 months, 4, 2, or 1 month, regardless of when JIG takes ownership is ok because... "We're not paying anything now". As in no additional cost to us now.

Hope that clarifies what I meant
OK. My misunderstanding.

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11-20-2012, 05:34 PM
  #904
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
I have a quote from 3 years ago somewhere where I said the same basic thing. I have never understood why any of the potential buyers would want to buy this team mid-season.

The smartest thing to do would be to announce that you are buying the team affective next season. That way 2 things happen:

- The fans know that the team has a new owner starting the next season and those that are fans will flock back to the team and buy STs etc.

- The CoG / NHL is left covering the losses in the current season. Me as the buyer don't start paying the bills until the up coming season.

In Jamisons case, the agreement was for just $11M minus $60,000 or whatever for every game missed due to the current lockout. The best thing for him financially is to forget this season and start getting $14M for next season.


My view on this is, while that makes sense, I think the fear here is that if this deal doesn't get all done and finished NOW, the new council is toss this deal when they take office-ergo, if he doesn't buy it now, there's a pretty good chance there won't be a team to buy, OR, there WILL be a team to buy, but they won't be playing in AZ if he waits till end of season (which the way CBA talks are going, may just happen anyway)

But yea, seeing this is now in year 3/4, why not (previously) make the announcement to buy at end of year-but that was then, this is now I guess...

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11-20-2012, 05:36 PM
  #905
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The city financial forecast looks lovely. With the team the general fund balance will be up to almost $60 million in 5 years. All they need to do is slash the budget dramatically immediately and maintain those cuts. Don't worry, that's the job for the next council.

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11-20-2012, 05:38 PM
  #906
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Looking at the COG Workshop, I love to see Skeete.... Nice legs behind him ;-) Oops! S'cuse me ;-( OT Sucks, she must heard about my post, she moved right ... Ok, maybe next time lol Forget about legs, Scruggs is becoming more a mayor than she was in last year...


Last edited by calmdown: 11-20-2012 at 05:44 PM.
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11-20-2012, 05:39 PM
  #907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
Clark needs to check her meds if she truly believes Jamison is going to buy the arena.

Why would Jamison even consider it? The answer is he wouldn't. He is not some uneducated buffoon. He is getting $308M to run the arena for 20 years, which happens to be $188M over the going rate of ~$6M per year. If Jamison does end up with the arena, it will not be because he purchased it... it will be because he convinced the CoG to give it to him for free, because 5 years from now when the Coyotes are still losing buckets of money, he will go to council and say he needs another "gift" to make it work. And the CoG being the CoG, will hand him over the keys without question AND still pay him the AMF as well... Anything to keep the team from moving.
Well in the event that all the stars align perfectly and the arena becomes very valuable... all the upside accrues to JIG rather then the city, who are putting $308 mm of taxpayer funds st risk. Funniest part of the deal really.

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11-20-2012, 05:40 PM
  #908
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Knaack tries to claim that without the team an arena management fee would be at least $10 million, and probably more. How does the Koolaid taste, Yvonne?

Beasley was brilliant to avoid actually analyzing the cost of operating the arena. He can treat the council members like mushrooms - keep them in the dark and pour manure on them.

By the way, Skeete is saying that regardless of who operates the arena, the minimum net cost to the city is $6 million per year. Maybe they should have figured that out before building the arena.

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11-20-2012, 05:44 PM
  #909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
Knaack tries to claim that without the team an arena management fee would be at least $10 million, and probably more. How does the Koolaid taste, Yvonne?

Beasley was brilliant to avoid actually analyzing the cost of operating the arena. He can treat the council members like mushrooms - keep them in the dark and pour manure on them.

By the way, Skeete is saying that regardless of who operates the arena, the minimum net cost to the city is $6 million per year. Maybe they should have figured that out before building the arena.
What?! Analyze?! You can't close a deal in 30 days if you do that! Ogdinville was all set to swoop in!

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11-20-2012, 05:46 PM
  #910
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Ho no, now Tindall and the same legs behind... Just joking

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11-20-2012, 05:52 PM
  #911
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Skeetonomics

"All of the projections presented to council are correct, based on the assumptions included in those calculations".

(i.e. we don't think we made any math errors).

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11-20-2012, 05:54 PM
  #912
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
Knaack tries to claim that without the team an arena management fee would be at least $10 million, and probably more. How does the Koolaid taste, Yvonne?
http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...n-coyotes.html

A 2010 study by the International Association of Venue Managers, a Texas-based group that tracks venues, found that among 21 arenas with a seating capacity of more than 12,000, the average annual operating expense is nearly $6million.

Maybe Knaack should use some real numbers from an independent party instead of getting them from Clark.


Last edited by cbcwpg: 11-20-2012 at 05:59 PM.
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Old
11-20-2012, 05:58 PM
  #913
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By the way, GWI lost their contempt motion against the City of Glendale.

http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov...2/m5516977.pdf

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11-20-2012, 05:59 PM
  #914
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Darn! No rewind button. What did I miss? Twitter war with Allan Walsh at the moment

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11-20-2012, 06:02 PM
  #915
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Skeete... He never compared a budget with no hockey team and some some events in the Jobb.com because he had no numbers on that. Always, figuring arena without a team and NO events??? Is that what I heard?

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11-20-2012, 06:02 PM
  #916
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Alvarez: Asks if the CoG has ever made a profit by having the team. Answer: No.

Alvarez: I am not going to vote for this, NEVER! But I want you to know my opinion.
I am not voting to go into business and lose money.

Alvarez: I have no respect for anyone who puts the city in a bad position. We are not the city, the people are.


Last edited by cbcwpg: 11-20-2012 at 06:09 PM.
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11-20-2012, 06:05 PM
  #917
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Even Norma Alvarez is coming more anger and less sick ;-)

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11-20-2012, 06:08 PM
  #918
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Unbeleivable that Norma Alvarez can be! I never beleived she could be that agressive...

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11-20-2012, 06:09 PM
  #919
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THAT says a lot!

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11-20-2012, 06:11 PM
  #920
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Now, Joyce Clark reading a speach... Already written for tonight ;-)

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11-20-2012, 06:11 PM
  #921
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Some pharaphrasing...

Clark: It is my belief that this is the right course of action.

- Clark says you must have an anchor tenant.

My comment: Actually you don't. Ask Kansas City how they make their arena viable.

- Clark: Believes Jamison ( after everyone else ) is the best choice.

- Clark talking about how Jamison might buy the arena, at any time, thereby eliminating the debt and AMF.

- Clark is saying that it costs $6M just to keep the lights on in the arena and you still have to pay an AMF to someone above the $6M, so $11M doesn't look all that bad.

- Quoting the Mayor from 19 months ago saying what she said then, about how an anchor tenant is needed, is still valid and correct. The Mayor says a good Mayor can change her mind when new info. becomes available.


Last edited by cbcwpg: 11-20-2012 at 06:35 PM.
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11-20-2012, 06:21 PM
  #922
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Sorry, in my point of view, Alvarez speach was more sincere than the Clark speach written by whom? Just a political speach for fans of hockey team... I would have like to listen to Joyce saying her real feelings like Alvarez did.. Poor politician manoover... By listening to her speach, it must have been written by Jamisson because she put too much imphasis on who he is. Sorry that she is not as sincere as Alvarez was in her comment. Joyce Clark just repeat what Jamison would have said... People of Glendale now have to judge what appened in their city...

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11-20-2012, 06:23 PM
  #923
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
- Clark talking about how Jamison might buy the arena.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas L View Post
Well in the event that all the stars align perfectly and the arena becomes very valuable... all the upside accrues to JIG rather then the city, who are putting $308 mm of taxpayer funds st risk. Funniest part of the deal really.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
- Clark is saying that it costs $6M just to keep the lights on in the arena and you still have to pay an AMF to someone above the $6M, so $11M doesn't look all that bad.
Oh my...

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11-20-2012, 06:33 PM
  #924
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Skeete showing projection numbers with and without the team for the next 20 years, which he admits is "foolhardy" at best.

Result is, with or without the team, the city will be in the hole, just different amounts.

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11-20-2012, 06:39 PM
  #925
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Skeete... He never compared a budget with no hockey team and some some events in the Jobb.com because he had no numbers on that. Always, figuring arena without a team and NO events??? Is that what I heard?
Correct. Remember the assumption from the CoG was without the team the arena has to be boarded up.

Skeete did say that he couldn't just pick any old number because the council never gave him direction on that. Fair enough, but even 10 events is a better assumption than 0 events to replace hockey with.


Last edited by cbcwpg: 11-20-2012 at 06:45 PM.
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