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NHL Lockout Discussion III: It Takes Skill To Be Real, Time To Heal Each Other

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Old
11-20-2012, 05:44 PM
  #526
Stewie Griffin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
The issue is that while the players incredible athletes, and among the best in the world at what they do, for the most part they are completely unqualified to do anything other than be a hockey player. For the most part, they completely lack the skills to do the things you mention (public speaking or owning a business). The average NHL'er would lose more money by missing a full year than they will make the rest of their lives after they retire from the NHL.
Just spitballing here, but maybe the NHL (and PA, for that matter) need to find a way to increase / encourage participation of young players in the NCAA (in lieu of the CHL, for example)?

More players with college degrees wouldn't be a bad thing.

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11-20-2012, 05:48 PM
  #527
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
I don't know about you guys but I'm mildly optimistic about tomorrow.
My problem is I have a cold and am stuffed up, so I can't tell if that pitcher of lemonade is for real, or if it's actually pee. I am scared to taste it and find out for sure.

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Old
11-20-2012, 05:54 PM
  #528
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Originally Posted by Bobby Lou View Post
I think posters should stop looking at the people and start looking at the concrete numbers. Who really cares if some guy "rubs us the wrong way." From my point of view one side is tabling full, in-depth offers and the other side isn't. Also one side attempted to start early negotiations to avoid this exact situation, and one side refused. Yeah Bettman is a rat, and so is Fehr, but who really cares.
I think that's a fair post. The only issue I take is with the NHL's willingness to start early negotiations. I see that as mainly a PR move. I think the NHL only started getting serious on negotiating once the lockout was in full swing.
I'd like to see both Fehr and Bettman gone by the time the next deal is up for discussion. Both of them have terrible track records at getting a deal done in a timely manner.

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Old
11-20-2012, 05:56 PM
  #529
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Originally Posted by MVP of West Hollywd View Post
There's been 3-4 times when I've thought "the lockout ends in the next few days, I'm calling it" and I was wrong

Now my gut feeling says talks tomorrow go nowhere and Dec. games are cancelled

Good omen?
Don't get your hopes up. Please.

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Old
11-20-2012, 05:56 PM
  #530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewie Griffin View Post
Just spitballing here, but maybe the NHL (and PA, for that matter) need to find a way to increase / encourage participation of young players in the NCAA (in lieu of the CHL, for example)?

More players with college degrees wouldn't be a bad thing.
Unfortunately a fair amount would be worthless. Look at the NFL. I went to a big sports University...my classes with the athletes were just enchanting lol. Rarely came in, rarely tried, showed interest...just got pushed through.

Frankly an education means nothing, it's all about the person and their motivation. If they're smart and want to be successful long term, they'll find a way regardless of where they player their hockey. Look at Stu Grimson, now he's an Esquire.

You can push as many people as you want through college, but if they don't care, they don't care, and the ones it'd help would be fine anyway.

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Old
11-20-2012, 05:58 PM
  #531
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Originally Posted by SerenityRick View Post
If there's no formal proposal tomorrow from the PA then I hope the owners/NHL just get up from the table and say "**** it. The Season is done."

I'm just tired of all this.
I agree, I'm so sick of reading all this stupid thread that I can't help but read, all the damn twitter quotes and drama. The last lockout was so much better to live through without social media all in your face.

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Old
11-20-2012, 06:06 PM
  #532
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Originally Posted by JAX View Post
And yet when you listen to Crosby he tells us of all the givebacks and concessions that the PA has been willing to do. I'm wondering if the players even know what is in their proposal?
Don't know for certain about "the players," but Crosby, himself, does not know what's in these proposals. Last week he made a cogent, heart-felt point about how bs it was that the NHL wanted to change entry level deals to 5 years. The problem with his point is that it doesn't address one of the league's actual asks. In fact, the league has proposed exactly the opposite (reduce ELCs to 2 years).

Given that Crosby's not exactly someone known for being inattentive to detail, that his involvement is greater than the vast majority of PA members to date, and that several other guys have given statements to the effect that they're rallying against something that isn't being asked for, my feeling is that Fehr is not giving them accurate and complete information.

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Old
11-20-2012, 06:10 PM
  #533
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Originally Posted by MPF24 View Post
I know this is COMPLETELY irrelevant to the conversations at hand and all, and I'm sure I've just missed it, long ago, if/when it ever did come up, but I just remembered, I've always wondered what it would look like if the league came up with a way of lowering the salary cap significantly, but allowing teams to tag a franchise player to not count on the cap or a similar system.
Kind of like the DP system in the MLS?

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Old
11-20-2012, 06:11 PM
  #534
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Paul Kelly interview this afternoon on team 1200.
http://autopod.ca/chum/185/podcasts/

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Old
11-20-2012, 06:16 PM
  #535
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If Fehr runs true to form there will be another 8 to 10 days of "bargaining", ratcheting up the frustration, and then, when the owners have finally something substantial to lose*, he will present a "last chance" offer which will actually be the first serious offer from them. If you find things very annoying right now, I suggest you lock yourself out of the negotiations for two weeks, at which point there will either be a settlement or no hope for one until next fall.

* less than 75% of the schedule not possible, sponsors can get compensation only after 25 percent of the regular schedule is not played

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Old
11-20-2012, 06:16 PM
  #536
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Man, all I have to say is if the first day of Free Agency is moved to June 15 or 48 hours after the Stanley Cup is awarded, my fiance is going to be the happiest woman on the planet as she hasn't had me around for... well ever.

Sigh... I guess I will have to dust off those "Canada Day, Eh!" conversations.

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Old
11-20-2012, 06:23 PM
  #537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepty View Post
Paul Kelly interview this afternoon on team 1200.
http://autopod.ca/chum/185/podcasts/
Listening to Paul Kelly makes me sad.

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Old
11-20-2012, 06:35 PM
  #538
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Originally Posted by Tra La La View Post
The NHLPA is complicit in the lockout,the lost games and the damage to revenue. They have spent three months, trying to cram changing the framework of the system down the owners throats. They are not innocent.
Changing what system? Management spent 4 months trying to change the definitions of what makes up HRR. Management wants to change the system.

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Old
11-20-2012, 06:45 PM
  #539
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Originally Posted by jeety mcjeet View Post
Listening to Paul Kelly makes me sad.
I agree. That was heartbreaking.

Gotta wonder where the league would be at right now if Kelly was still in there.

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Old
11-20-2012, 06:46 PM
  #540
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McKenzie, Dreger and LeBrun

LeBrun and Dreger seemed slightly optimistic that there is player pressure to speak the leagues language on economics. McKenzie is more sceptical about real traction coming out of this.

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Old
11-20-2012, 06:47 PM
  #541
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Tomorrow will just be another case of the PA not listening to a word the NHL has said. They will offer a proposal that they "SAY" is fair, but the NHL will reject it. Then they will say "I'm even MORE frustrated by the PA than ever before, we have taken 3 steps backwards"

Sound familiar????

Bank on it. Tomorrow is going to be a gong show.

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Old
11-20-2012, 06:54 PM
  #542
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
A player who has a million in the bank never has to work again.
A normal two income family in Canada makes a million in around ten to 15 years.

A million dollars isn't that much.

Your imaginary hockey player would be selling cars sooner rather than later.

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Old
11-20-2012, 06:54 PM
  #543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Changing what system? Management spent 4 months trying to change the definitions of what makes up HRR. Management wants to change the system.
NHLPA Guaranteed Dollars VS Last CBA/NHL Guaranteed Percentage. The NHL gave up changing HRR definition a while ago. The PA still hasn't dropped guaranteed dollars. (yet)

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Old
11-20-2012, 07:00 PM
  #544
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepty View Post
Paul Kelly interview this afternoon on team 1200.
http://autopod.ca/chum/185/podcasts/
Ya, its sad that the NHLPA fired this guy. For sure we would have a deal by now if this guy was in charge of the PA.

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Old
11-20-2012, 07:01 PM
  #545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepty View Post
Paul Kelly interview this afternoon on team 1200.
http://autopod.ca/chum/185/podcasts/

Even Kelly said De-linkage/Guaranteed Dollars was going to be a non starter for the owners.

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Old
11-20-2012, 07:03 PM
  #546
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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
Because Fehr has no intention of actually negotiating.
I find it bemusing that the PA placed their livelihoods in the hands of a man who is going to throw something together overnight.

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Old
11-20-2012, 07:04 PM
  #547
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As i've said all along the delinkage is just a stall tactic. I doubt even Fehr himself thinks it'll fly, he just likes to talk about it to frustrate the owners.

I agree with Lebrun and MacKenzie. The linked PA proposal is there but do they present it tomorrow or wait a month.

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Old
11-20-2012, 07:07 PM
  #548
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Originally Posted by SidTheKid8787 View Post
As i've said all along the delinkage is just a stall tactic. I doubt even Fehr himself thinks it'll fly, he just likes to talk about it to frustrate the owners.

I agree with Lebrun and MacKenzie. The linked PA proposal is there but do they present it tomorrow or wait a month.
They are gonna wait a month so that they can lose more money

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Old
11-20-2012, 07:13 PM
  #549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SerenityRick View Post
If there's no formal proposal tomorrow from the PA then I hope the owners/NHL just get up from the table and say "**** it. The Season is done."

I'm just tired of all this.
i think tomorrow will be very telling if there is going to be a season or not

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Old
11-20-2012, 07:15 PM
  #550
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Changing what system? Management spent 4 months trying to change the definitions of what makes up HRR. Management wants to change the system.
4 months? It's been about 4 months since negotiations started and HRR definitions have been left alonr for quite some time now.

I'm curious as to how you define 'system'. The league is keeping the system exactly the same, what they're doing is revising existing components of the system (which will not change how the component functions within the system). They aren't changing those components or their function. Changing UFA from 27 to 28 is a revision to the system, it's not actually changing the framework. Eliminating the cap - that's changing the system. Eliminating guaranteed contracts - that's changing the system.

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