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Hamilton Bulldogs [10-15-3] & Wheeling Nailers 2012-2013 2.0

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Old
11-20-2012, 01:19 PM
  #451
Talks to Goalposts
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
I would hope Berger.
He is,

Beaulieu draws back in and is playing on the top pairing again. Which puts together Tinordi-Ellis as the shutdown pair. Stejskal is on the bench.

I'd much rather have Fortier and Berger in the lineup than Hagel and Sortini. The 4th line has been a gaping sore in the Dog's ES game all season due to those two.

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11-20-2012, 01:37 PM
  #452
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Tonight line-up according to TVA Sports:

Attaquants
Michael Blunden - Gabriel Dumont - Brendan Gallagher
Michaël Bournival - Patrick Holland - Aaron Palushaj
Steve Quailer - Darryl Boyce - Alexander Avtsin
Kyle Hagel - Joonas Nattinen - Zack Stortini

Défenseurs
Nathan Beaulieu - Frédéric St-Denis
Jarred Tinordi - Morgan Ellis
Brendon Nash - Antoine Corbin

Gardien
Cédrick Desjardins

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Old
11-20-2012, 01:44 PM
  #453
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
He is,

Beaulieu draws back in and is playing on the top pairing again. Which puts together Tinordi-Ellis as the shutdown pair. Stejskal is on the bench.

I'd much rather have Fortier and Berger in the lineup than Hagel and Sortini. The 4th line has been a gaping sore in the Dog's ES game all season due to those two.
Possibly they will play on the Dumont line so that he can teach them the finer points to punch,like their opponents snouts.Berger has a fiery temperament also and the AHL is a league that houses lots of pugilists,a point not lost by Bergevin.The Bulldogs need an identity of a team that won't be pushed around,giving their young talents space to use them without punishment continually.

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11-20-2012, 01:54 PM
  #454
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Possibly they will play on the Dumont line so that he can teach them the finer points to punch,like their opponents snouts.Berger has a fiery temperament also and the AHL is a league that houses lots of pugilists,a point not lost by Bergevin.The Bulldogs need an identity of a team that won't be pushed around,giving their young talents space to use them without punishment continually.
Even if you like enforcers you have to question the value of Sortini and Hagel. Neither has been very effective at "policing" out there. Sortini is particular is hardly an intimidating fighter.

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11-20-2012, 02:04 PM
  #455
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Tonight line-up according to TVA Sports:

Attaquants
Michael Blunden - Gabriel Dumont - Brendan Gallagher
Michaël Bournival - Patrick Holland - Aaron Palushaj
Steve Quailer - Darryl Boyce - Alexander Avtsin
Kyle Hagel - Joonas Nattinen - Zack Stortini

Défenseurs
Nathan Beaulieu - Frédéric St-Denis
Jarred Tinordi - Morgan Ellis
Brendon Nash - Antoine Corbin

Gardien
Cédrick Desjardins
I'm happy to see Holland back with offensive players but playing Nattinen with goons? Really? Nattinen has probably been our best forward over the past few games, and Randy Lefebvre wants to suck away his confidence?

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11-20-2012, 02:22 PM
  #456
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3 pts in 4 games, but he's stuck with plugs on the 4th line.

Poor Joonas.

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11-20-2012, 02:24 PM
  #457
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I'm happy to see Holland back with offensive players but playing Nattinen with goons? Really? Nattinen has probably been our best forward over the past few games, and Randy Lefebvre wants to suck away his confidence?
The two Randy's were fired at the end of last season,Sylvain still needs to have a player with good defensive habits with those guys on the ice.It sucks having goons but until Schultz improves his skating along with increased icetime in the ECHL his hands are tied somewhat.The Habs need to have a player that's capable of both playing and taking care of the goons in both leagues AHL/NHL,it's time well invested training such a player or drafting one in the 2nd round like Mike McCarron or Tyler Hill.Hockey hasn't changed in all the years I've been watching 50+ yrs. and no end to fighting appears to be on the horizon.For pro athletes playing in that type of environment the need to know they can score without impunity is a necessity.

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11-20-2012, 02:30 PM
  #458
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Even if you like enforcers you have to question the value of Sortini and Hagel. Neither has been very effective at "policing" out there. Sortini is particular is hardly an intimidating fighter.
It's not a matter of like or dislike when it comes to having enforcers,it's a necessity like it or not.Stortini and Hagel(Homeboy) may not be the most talented at either hockey or fighting but like I said they are necessary.

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11-20-2012, 02:59 PM
  #459
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It's not a matter of like or dislike when it comes to having enforcers,it's a necessity like it or not.Stortini and Hagel(Homeboy) may not be the most talented at either hockey or fighting but like I said they are necessary.
Maybe if either of those two could win a fight they could help but there hasn't been much evidence of that so far. This criticism applies especially to Sortini who can't play, can't fight and doesn't do anything but take penalties. Hagel seems like he can fight at least, but hasn't really done much of it so far. What's the point of goons that aren't even good at being goons?

On the other side, if it was actually necessary to have two goons in the lineup in the AHL we'd see the teams the Bulldogs have been facing do it. They have not. The AHL is a deep league during the lockout, many of the teams are going with 4 lines of hockey players rather than pugilists.

Burke is famous for loving having fighters in the lineup, but the Marlies had 0 goons on their forward lines these last 2 games. Neither did Syracuse, their entire lineup was made up of hockey players.

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11-20-2012, 04:52 PM
  #460
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Maybe if either of those two could win a fight they could help but there hasn't been much evidence of that so far. This criticism applies especially to Sortini who can't play, can't fight and doesn't do anything but take penalties. Hagel seems like he can fight at least, but hasn't really done much of it so far. What's the point of goons that aren't even good at being goons?

On the other side, if it was actually necessary to have two goons in the lineup in the AHL we'd see the teams the Bulldogs have been facing do it. They have not. The AHL is a deep league during the lockout, many of the teams are going with 4 lines of hockey players rather than pugilists.

Burke is famous for loving having fighters in the lineup, but the Marlies had 0 goons on their forward lines these last 2 games. Neither did Syracuse, their entire lineup was made up of hockey players.
I dont know, but most every game I've watched, no one wants a piece of Stortini. He's a good fighter for the AHL, and he actually does his job of grabbing guys that are taking runs or getting chippy.

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11-20-2012, 05:23 PM
  #461
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I dont know, but most every game I've watched, no one wants a piece of Stortini. He's a good fighter for the AHL, and he actually does his job of grabbing guys that are taking runs or getting chippy.
He can grab a guy sure, but how often does he actually win a fight?
His AHL fight card is more about hugging guys down to the ice rather than winning with his fists.

http://www.hockeyfights.com/players/...htcard/reg2012

In particular for the next two games, the IceCaps haven't bothered with a fighter this season. There isn't a direct need for him compared to guys that can play the game.

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11-20-2012, 05:37 PM
  #462
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Maybe if either of those two could win a fight they could help but there hasn't been much evidence of that so far. This criticism applies especially to Sortini who can't play, can't fight and doesn't do anything but take penalties. Hagel seems like he can fight at least, but hasn't really done much of it so far. What's the point of goons that aren't even good at being goons?

On the other side, if it was actually necessary to have two goons in the lineup in the AHL we'd see the teams the Bulldogs have been facing do it. They have not. The AHL is a deep league during the lockout, many of the teams are going with 4 lines of hockey players rather than pugilists.

Burke is famous for loving having fighters in the lineup, but the Marlies had 0 goons on their forward lines these last 2 games. Neither did Syracuse, their entire lineup was made up of hockey players.
This only strengthens my point about having players that can do both play hockey well enough to play in the NHL and take care of the rough stuff.Which all winning teams have in both leagues and either use draft picks to acquire them,trade for them or teach players with an aptitude for fighting to learn a skill to make them worth a spot in the rotation.Skills such as checking,blocking shots,better skating,faceoffs,etc. abilities worthy of an NHL job.

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Old
11-20-2012, 06:16 PM
  #463
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This only strengthens my point about having players that can do both play hockey well enough to play in the NHL and take care of the rough stuff.Which all winning teams have in both leagues and either use draft picks to acquire them,trade for them or teach players with an aptitude for fighting to learn a skill to make them worth a spot in the rotation.Skills such as checking,blocking shots,better skating,faceoffs,etc. abilities worthy of an NHL job.
What a lot of people should realize is the dedicated goon was a relatively recent phenomena, only going back to the 80's in NHL hockey and was a result of expanded lineups and lack of parity. They are also being phased out across pro hockey because its becoming clear that they aren't worth their roster spots compared to a replacement level player.

Basically, if your fighters can't play the game its likely they aren't worth putting on the ice. And I mean really play the game, as in being able have a net positive impact on how the game overall not some cosmetic extra skills like faceoffs or shot blocking while being terrible on aggregate.

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11-20-2012, 06:17 PM
  #464
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As per Derek Wills, Leblanc may play next game.

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11-20-2012, 08:31 PM
  #465
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So far I havent been overly impressed with Lefebvre, although not having some useful veterans is not helping his flexibility and ability to teach young players.
We all want the kids to grow in a winning environment but let's not forget that his main job is to develop the prospects, not necessarily win games.

To win in the AHL you need veteran players to carry the team in the top6. The management chose to let the kids play. I'm fine with that decision.

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11-20-2012, 08:36 PM
  #466
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If Leblanc is back tmrw night i wouldn't mind seeing this,

Quailer - Leblanc - Palushaj
Holland - Bournival - Gallagher
Blunden - Nattinen - Avtsin
______________________

we don't need a 4th line thier extremely useless.

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11-20-2012, 08:59 PM
  #467
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Originally Posted by canadiensnation View Post
If Leblanc is back tmrw night i wouldn't mind seeing this,

Quailer - Leblanc - Palushaj
Holland - Bournival - Gallagher
Blunden - Nattinen - Avtsin
______________________

we don't need a 4th line thier extremely useless.
Dumont ? The guy has been useful.

I know I'm a homer for him, but Corbin should be a consistent lock for the dogs lineup.

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11-20-2012, 09:01 PM
  #468
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Originally Posted by canadiensnation View Post
If Leblanc is back tmrw night i wouldn't mind seeing this,

Quailer - Leblanc - Palushaj
Holland - Bournival - Gallagher
Blunden - Nattinen - Avtsin
______________________

we don't need a 4th line thier extremely useless.
Boyce - Dumont - Berger wouldn't be terrible, I guess.

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Old
11-20-2012, 09:44 PM
  #469
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Dumont ? The guy has been useful.

I know I'm a homer for him, but Corbin should be a consistent lock for the dogs lineup.
I'm not nearly as high on Corbin as you are but he's been good enough that he should start...the only defender I'd call even close to a lock on this team is St Denis.

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11-20-2012, 09:55 PM
  #470
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We all want the kids to grow in a winning environment but let's not forget that his main job is to develop the prospects, not necessarily win games.
That's why I was hoping they would hire a guy like Grouxl, or Houle, guys who have experience coaching young guys, and they have success too. IMO they should have done what they did with Boucher before, I don't see Lefebvre having a future coaching the Habs.

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11-20-2012, 09:59 PM
  #471
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We all want the kids to grow in a winning environment but let's not forget that his main job is to develop the prospects, not necessarily win games.

To win in the AHL you need veteran players to carry the team in the top6. The management chose to let the kids play. I'm fine with that decision.
Do you not assign much development value to making the AHL playoffs?

Do you not assign much development value to giving Beaulieu and Ellis more passing options on the PP?

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11-20-2012, 10:10 PM
  #472
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That's why I was hoping they would hire a guy like Grouxl, or Houle, guys who have experience coaching young guys, and they have success too. IMO they should have done what they did with Boucher before, I don't see Lefebvre having a future coaching the Habs.
When we hired Randy Lefebvre there was a lot of talk about how he was going to be groomed to be the coach of the future. No thank you.

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11-20-2012, 11:06 PM
  #473
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How was Beaulieu tonight? Any better coming back after sitting out a game?

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11-21-2012, 12:32 AM
  #474
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How was Beaulieu tonight? Any better coming back after sitting out a game?
He looked good at times but took very stupid penalties.

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11-21-2012, 07:47 AM
  #475
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He looked good at times but took very stupid penalties.
Agreed. Man can he skate well with the puck. I'd be more worried about him if his gaffes weren't fixable and this was his 3rd year in the AHL.

He definitely needs to work overtime on his shot. Man that one breakaway where he wound up from in close and completely missed the net was pretty bad.

He's definitely a project but I'm more excited we have him than before this year started.

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