HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk > Polls - (hockey-related only)

Which trade was worse, Kessel to TOR or Carter to CLB?

View Poll Results: Which trade was worse?
Phil Kessel to Toronto 182 57.05%
Jeff Carter to Columbus 125 39.18%
Both are equally bad and I can't choose just one 12 3.76%
Voters: 319. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-20-2012, 08:06 PM
  #101
RogerRoeper*
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 21,694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by freakydallas13 View Post
I took kessel 3 years to get those kind of numbers, and Johnson has played a few months Columbus. This would better be examined a few years from now, when we know how well it turned out for Columbus.
Well, Kessel did get 30 goals in an injury shortened season with no help in his first season.

RogerRoeper* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2012, 08:06 PM
  #102
WarriorofTime
Registered User
 
WarriorofTime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,450
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Of course you do because then you can ignore the huge win it is in that regard to Toronto. You're biased. Of course you have to compare Kessel finishing 6th in league scoring with Bozak as his centre and 3 straight 30+ goal seasons compared to the bust Carter was in Columbus.
Kessel hasn't helped the Leafs at all. What's he done for them exactly that made giving up a better futures package worth it for Toronto? Lead them to 26th instead of 28th last year? I'd rather finish 28th in that case.

WarriorofTime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2012, 08:07 PM
  #103
WarriorofTime
Registered User
 
WarriorofTime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,450
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
The same question can be asked about Columbus. Who is their #1 Centre and #1 Goalie?
Columbus is not the model franchise.

WarriorofTime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2012, 08:08 PM
  #104
LEAFS FAN 4 EVER
GO LEAFS GO
 
LEAFS FAN 4 EVER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,775
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Well, Kessel did get 30 goals in an injury shortened season with no help in his first season.
I have always wondered what would Kessel's total goals in his 1st season in Toronto had been if he didn't miss all of October? Plus had he played in some of those games maybe Toronto wins a couple more and Boston doesn't end up selecting Tyler Seguin.

LEAFS FAN 4 EVER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2012, 08:09 PM
  #105
WarriorofTime
Registered User
 
WarriorofTime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,450
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
I have always wondered what would Kessel's total goals in his 1st season in Toronto had been if he didn't miss all of October? Plus had he played in some of those games maybe Toronto wins a couple more and Boston doesn't end up selecting Tyler Seguin.
Kessel was injured when Burke acquired him. He gambled that even missing a month the Leafs would be in good shape and Kessel would put them over the top. He was wrong.

WarriorofTime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2012, 08:11 PM
  #106
The Zetterberg Era
Nyquist Explosion!
 
The Zetterberg Era's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 17,210
vCash: 515
Option 4, both are not nearly as bad as everyone makes them out to be. I understand Boston and LA won a championship, but these aren't as awful as they seem to be written about.

The Zetterberg Era is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2012, 08:12 PM
  #107
RogerRoeper*
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 21,694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
Kessel hasn't helped the Leafs at all. What's he done for them exactly that made giving up a better futures package worth it for Toronto? Lead them to 26th instead of 28th last year? I'd rather finish 28th in that case.
He's been an all-star player. One guy can't make a team.

To ignore the comparables to Kessel and Carter is ridiculous. That's the player both teams traded for.

RogerRoeper* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2012, 08:13 PM
  #108
RogerRoeper*
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 21,694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
Kessel was injured when Burke acquired him. He gambled that even missing a month the Leafs would be in good shape and Kessel would put them over the top. He was wrong.
But how could Howson know Couturier would be available at #8!

RogerRoeper* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2012, 08:14 PM
  #109
WarriorofTime
Registered User
 
WarriorofTime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,450
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
But how could Howson know Couturier would be available at #8!
Howson.. the GM that every team should compare their own guy towards.

WarriorofTime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2012, 08:14 PM
  #110
LEAFS FAN 4 EVER
GO LEAFS GO
 
LEAFS FAN 4 EVER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,775
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
Kessel was injured when Burke acquired him. He gambled that even missing a month the Leafs would be in good shape and Kessel would put them over the top. He was wrong.
Then you can also say Scott Howson took a gamble on trading for Jeff Carter and in the end that looks a lot worse then the Kessel trade when you put everything together.

LEAFS FAN 4 EVER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2012, 08:16 PM
  #111
LEAFS FAN 4 EVER
GO LEAFS GO
 
LEAFS FAN 4 EVER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,775
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Option 4, both are not nearly as bad as everyone makes them out to be. I understand Boston and LA won a championship, but these aren't as awful as they seem to be written about.
I said this before and I will say it again. With the exception of Game 2 between Boston & Tampa Bay of the 2011 Eastern Conference Finals where Tyler Seguin had an impact, he wasn't a major reason why Boston won the Stanley Cup that season and people shouldn't use that example when looking back at the Kesel trade.

LEAFS FAN 4 EVER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2012, 08:17 PM
  #112
RogerRoeper*
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 21,694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
Howson.. the GM that every team should compare their own guy towards.
Burke and Howson are the GMs who made the trades that this thread is about.

RogerRoeper* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2012, 08:25 PM
  #113
Atomos2
#theProspectsGrim
 
Atomos2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Guelph, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,543
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
Kessel hasn't helped the Leafs at all. What's he done for them exactly that made giving up a better futures package worth it for Toronto? Lead them to 26th instead of 28th last year? I'd rather finish 28th in that case.
Hamilton hasn't done much for Boston either other than having random Boston fans assuming he will be a franchise defenceman. Kessel has given the leafs their best player, a franchise winger and an elite sniper. There is a reason why everyone criticizes the leafs' defensive woes and goaltending without saying much about offence.

Atomos2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2012, 08:43 PM
  #114
beauchamp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Laval, Qc
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,436
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
I have always wondered what would Kessel's total goals in his 1st season in Toronto had been if he didn't miss all of October? Plus had he played in some of those games maybe Toronto wins a couple more and Boston doesn't end up selecting Tyler Seguin.
If my aunt had (...), she would be my uncle.

beauchamp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2012, 08:50 PM
  #115
WarriorofTime
Registered User
 
WarriorofTime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,450
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
Hamilton hasn't done much for Boston either other than having random Boston fans assuming he will be a franchise defenceman. Kessel has given the leafs their best player, a franchise winger and an elite sniper. There is a reason why everyone criticizes the leafs' defensive woes and goaltending without saying much about offence.
Hamilton is a top defensive prospect. Bottom feeders need top prospects more than they need 1 All Star. You'd rather have your team all come together at the right time like the 2010 Blackhawks than the Thrashers/Jets where you have 1 great player here.. another great player 6 years younger who reaches into form as the first guy is thinking of his next destination...

WarriorofTime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2012, 09:21 PM
  #116
RogerRoeper*
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 21,694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
Hamilton is a top defensive prospect. Bottom feeders need top prospects more than they need 1 All Star. You'd rather have your team all come together at the right time like the 2010 Blackhawks than the Thrashers/Jets where you have 1 great player here.. another great player 6 years younger who reaches into form as the first guy is thinking of his next destination...
Translation, you're thinking Kessel is gone first chance he gets.

RogerRoeper* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2012, 09:28 PM
  #117
VeddarRants
HEART AND SOUL
 
VeddarRants's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 12,424
vCash: 500
For anyone curious as to what Seguin is up to right now, he's currently dominating the Swiss-A league and is probably the best NHL player playing right now over there ( ahead of guys like Rick Nash, Joe Thornton, etc etc ). 17 games, 16 goals, 12 assists, 28 points.

VeddarRants is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2012, 09:36 PM
  #118
LEAFS FAN 4 EVER
GO LEAFS GO
 
LEAFS FAN 4 EVER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,775
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeddarRants View Post
For anyone curious as to what Seguin is up to right now, he's currently dominating the Swiss-A league and is probably the best NHL player playing right now over there ( ahead of guys like Rick Nash, Joe Thornton, etc etc ). 17 games, 16 goals, 12 assists, 28 points.
That's all great but with the exception of players like Rick Nash and Joe Thornton isn't the majority of players in the Swiss-A League not as good compared to those playing in the NHL and even the KHL. So if this was meant to rub it in the faces of Toronto fans that Seguin is playing very well in Europe that didn't work on me.

LEAFS FAN 4 EVER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2012, 09:37 PM
  #119
VeddarRants
HEART AND SOUL
 
VeddarRants's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 12,424
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
That's all great but with the exception of players like Rick Nash and Joe Thornton isn't the majority of players in the Swiss-A League not as good compared to those playing in the NHL and even the KHL. So if this was meant to rub it in the faces of Toronto fans that Seguin is playing very well in Europe that didn't work on me.
Defensive much?

VeddarRants is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2012, 09:39 PM
  #120
Atomos2
#theProspectsGrim
 
Atomos2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Guelph, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,543
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
Hamilton is a top defensive prospect. Bottom feeders need top prospects more than they need 1 All Star. You'd rather have your team all come together at the right time like the 2010 Blackhawks than the Thrashers/Jets where you have 1 great player here.. another great player 6 years younger who reaches into form as the first guy is thinking of his next destination...
You're acting like the leafs are a bunch of old guys that won't be able to play with the rookies coming up. Until Matt Frattin joined the team last year, Kessel was the youngest leaf forward. And the leafs are still one of the youngest teams in the league. That was the whole point of getting Kessel, he was young but he was already a star.

And if you are basing your comments solely on kessel's contract, your whole argument is based on the belief that he will bolt as soon as the contract's up which really isn't a good argument since its all circumstantial.

Atomos2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2012, 09:40 PM
  #121
Atomos2
#theProspectsGrim
 
Atomos2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Guelph, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,543
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeddarRants View Post
Defensive much?
Then what was your point?

Atomos2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2012, 09:44 PM
  #122
LEAFS FAN 4 EVER
GO LEAFS GO
 
LEAFS FAN 4 EVER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,775
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeddarRants View Post
Defensive much?
Then what was your reason for brining up Seguin's numbers the Swiss League numbers other then to make other Leafs fans upset. It has nothing to do with the topic.

LEAFS FAN 4 EVER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2012, 09:52 PM
  #123
LEAFS FAN 4 EVER
GO LEAFS GO
 
LEAFS FAN 4 EVER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,775
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
Hamilton is a top defensive prospect. Bottom feeders need top prospects more than they need 1 All Star. You'd rather have your team all come together at the right time like the 2010 Blackhawks than the Thrashers/Jets where you have 1 great player here.. another great player 6 years younger who reaches into form as the first guy is thinking of his next destination...
Among the Maple Leafs prospects on Defense they just drafted Morgan Rielly and Matt Finn in 2012 and Stuart Percy in 2011. On the Toronto Marlies there is Korbinian Holzer who was mentioned as possibly replacing Luke Schenn and others such as Jesse Blacker. So their future Defensman is looking good, the difference is they don't get as much hype compared to Dougie Hamilton.

As for their Forward prospects Matt Frattin should be back with the Maple Leafs once the lockout is over and I would like to see Nazem Kadri and Joe Colborne with them full time if that's possible.

So overall it's not as bad as you might think.

LEAFS FAN 4 EVER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2012, 09:54 PM
  #124
pdd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,578
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeddarRants View Post
For anyone curious as to what Seguin is up to right now, he's currently dominating the Swiss-A league and is probably the best NHL player playing right now over there ( ahead of guys like Rick Nash, Joe Thornton, etc etc ). 17 games, 16 goals, 12 assists, 28 points.
What about Henrik Zetterberg? 17 points in 10 games, as he didn't go over right away. Same league as Seguin. As for Nash and Thornton...

Nash 10-6-16 in 15, Thornton 4-9-13 in 19.

pdd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2012, 06:47 PM
  #125
beauchamp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Laval, Qc
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,436
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeddarRants View Post
Defensive much?
You'll get an answer by reading his other posts in this thread.

beauchamp is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:07 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.