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Some trade proposals of mine

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Old
11-20-2012, 09:24 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by MBauer View Post
, you would have an argument for him being better then Kronwall, but to say by far is better is delusional to say the least.

I wouldn't do the deal either, but not cause the value isn't close, but giving up or two best prospects for a guy who probably wouldn't make a huge difference for us doesn't seem like a great idea. I understand that Colorado wouldn't want to give their best d-man for a couple of prospects, but to act like you're getting fleeced value wise is silly.
Aside from all that, Detroit hasn't sat on Smith and Nyquist for five years to ship them both off together anyways.

And Nyquist's stock keeps going up with the way he's playing in GR right now.

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Old
11-20-2012, 09:39 PM
  #52
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this habs fan says no thanks quickly. a first line center for easily replaceable players pretty much sums it up. i also think for washington to obtain someone like yakupov you would have to part with ur young stud on defense.

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Old
11-20-2012, 09:42 PM
  #53
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From TO's pov , take out Gunnar and we have ourselves a deal.

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Old
11-20-2012, 09:46 PM
  #54
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You really dont believe that you could get plekanec for kulemin and colbourne

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11-20-2012, 09:48 PM
  #55
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lol at Aves fans thinking that's bad for them. Col GM would take that deal and run, and Holland would be run out of Detroit. Perspective, folks.
First of all its Avs not Aves.

Second, 2 unknowns for a young quality dman on a good contract, is a joke. Any GM stupid enough to trade their best dman for 2 unknowns, quality prospects or not, should be run out of town.

Whats even funnier to me the Detroit fans actually think they are getting jobbed by the proposed deal, when they make out like bandits. As Johnson is currently and over time will still the best player in the deal. People so drastically over-rate prospects in this forum, its such a joke. Just because a player plays well in juniors doesn't mean its going to translate to the NHL. See Alexandre Diagle.

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Old
11-20-2012, 09:48 PM
  #56
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I can understand why the Red Wings wouldn't want to do this, but I don't get why some are acting like it's a ridiculous steal for the Avalanche. First of all, Smith isn't exactly light years younger than EJ, he's a year younger. Nyquist is a great prospect, but I don't think it would be enough to entice the Avalanche into trading EJ, especially when they have no one in the system like him.

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Old
11-20-2012, 09:56 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by chet1926 View Post
First of all its Avs not Aves.

Second, 2 unknowns for a young quality dman on a good contract, is a joke. Any GM stupid enough to trade their best dman for 2 unknowns, quality prospects or not, should be run out of town.

Whats even funnier to me the Detroit fans actually think they are getting jobbed by the proposed deal, when they make out like bandits. As Johnson is currently and over time will still the best player in the deal. People so drastically over-rate prospects in this forum, its such a joke. Just because a player plays well in juniors doesn't mean its going to translate to the NHL. See Alexandre Diagle.
If only you had a single clue as to what you're talking about.

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Old
11-20-2012, 10:00 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by SoundwaveIsCharisma View Post
I can understand why the Red Wings wouldn't want to do this, but I don't get why some are acting like it's a ridiculous steal for the Avalanche. First of all, Smith isn't exactly light years younger than EJ, he's a year younger. Nyquist is a great prospect, but I don't think it would be enough to entice the Avalanche into trading EJ, especially when they have no one in the system like him.
As a wings fan i understand that Giving up EJ for two prospects at this point would not be a good move on their part even though they are good prospects. Hypothetically speaking though if EJ was on the market to be traded you would be crazy to think you're gonna get a lot more for EJ than that offer. But again the trade obviously doesn't make sense because Colorado can't afford to trade their best d-man.

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Old
11-20-2012, 10:13 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Datsyuk Dangles View Post
I'm not sure if I would even give just Smith for Johnson.
Lol...yeah Smith has been putting up numbers not unlike John-Michael Liles. OMGZ THE MESSIAH IS HERE!!! His 14 NHL games are something to behold and it's not that he hasn't been good enough to play in the NHL before, he was and has been for YEARS! It's just that now is the right time to take his rightful place as greatest of all time.

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Originally Posted by The Red Line View Post
Det-Col one is brutal for Detroit.

Draft position doesn't really mean a whole lot when 6 years later he has struggled on two teams and hasn't come close to living up to expectations.

Chances are Smith will be better than Johnson anyway, the gap probably isn't even that much going into next season. And then the Wings have to add their best forward prospect AND a pick?
Yeah, clearly Johnson has struggled. Especially in 2010 when he played in the Olympics for USA against the best players in the world while Smith was playing against a bunch of no-names for the University of Wisconsin.

You'd think that one would be much older than the other but EJ is only 24 and ONE year older than Smith. All this time, Johnson hasn't been good enough to play in the NHL and Smith has been. Crazy world, huh??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Datsyuk Dangles View Post
Yeah I wouldn't even think about it. Johnson is nothing special. I wouldn't be surprised to see Smith considered better than him after this year.
Yeah probably although it looks as though he's also going to have to leapfrog about 30 guys as well considering he's not even on that list. MAN, he's SO GOOD, he's under everyone's radar....he's like a super-spy submarine or something.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1247437

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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Avs laugh at that proposal.
Thank you!

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Originally Posted by The Red Line View Post
lol at Aves fans thinking that's bad for them. Col GM would take that deal and run, and Holland would be run out of Detroit. Perspective, folks.
No, it's called a proven commodity, a guy that has shown that he CAN play big minutes in the NHL as a d-man under the age of 23, for 2 guys that have played a combined 32 games of NHL hockey. While you guys are allowed to LOVE your prospects, the Avs would never trade EJ for a package like this. It makes NO sense for them, considering what they gave up for him AND for where they are at in the overall team development.

And by the by, homer wings fans, you want to compare EJ and Smith well then you need to put Brendan Smith in the same exact situation as EJ finds himself in with THIS Colorado team as opposed to completely insolated by a veteran team that had guys like Lidstrom, Kronwall & Stuart.

I remember when JM Liles came in and started playing for us and he started his NHL career with Rob Blake. Much, MUCH easier to do than when you're alternating between Shane O'Brien and Matt Hunwick.

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Old
11-20-2012, 10:16 PM
  #60
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I think the actual trade to acquire EJ shows how highly the Avs organization values Johnson, there's not a chance he would be traded for two prospects and (lol) a 3rd. Yeah Smith and Nyquist are great prospects and they're playing great in the AHL - key word there being AHL. But you've gotta realize they've actually had pretty much the same development time as EJ (EJ is a year older but lost a year to the knee injury). EJ obviously hasn't lived up to first overall expectations but only on HF would the perceived value of two guys playing well in a developmental league be above EJ's right now.

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Old
11-20-2012, 10:19 PM
  #61
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How? I thought Habs fans would disagree with it more.
i don't hate it but like you said we need a 1 pleks is a great 2 but we have a great 2 in grabovoski which we got from the habs

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Old
11-20-2012, 10:22 PM
  #62
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Smith is being hilariously overrated in this thread. That's a decent package, but not enough to get Johnson

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Old
11-20-2012, 10:23 PM
  #63
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The Edmonton proposal is actually probably the worst one here - they clearly have every reason to trade the #1 overall pick for a package of spare parts like that.

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Old
11-20-2012, 10:27 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capitalsrock View Post

MTL-TOR

MTL-Plekanec

TOR:Kulemin,Gunnarson,Colborne

Toronto gets a number one center at the price of some easily replaceable players. Mtl gets help on the wing and on defense. Colborne is a pretty good prospect, as well.
Not going to happen.

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Old
11-20-2012, 10:34 PM
  #65
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For a rookie poster to propose so many trades with so many core pieces of teams, it's kind of the wrong area to start.
A good start point would be to post in other people's threads with the usual Core pieces for scraps that almost all threads are started on. Than base your own opinions on what you learn, what others have said, and form an opinion afterwards.
Tackling a trade proposal like this with multiple teams that aren't you're own fav team also seems foolish. Stick to who and what you know.

None of these proposals have gotten good feedback from more than maybe 1 poster.

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Old
11-20-2012, 10:38 PM
  #66
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Why waste assets on Pleks?

Wait a year, and bring Weiss home.

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Old
11-20-2012, 10:50 PM
  #67
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If the Blues still had Johnson and got offered that deal I would take it and run. You Avs fans overrate Johnson by so much. Smith will be just as good if not better, then by adding Nyquist just makes the deal so lopsided in Colorado's favor. And don't tell me I haven't seen Johnson play because I've seen him play more than you have.

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Old
11-20-2012, 10:52 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Bender View Post
Lol...yeah Smith has been putting up numbers not unlike John-Michael Liles. OMGZ THE MESSIAH IS HERE!!! His 14 NHL games are something to behold and it's not that he hasn't been good enough to play in the NHL before, he was and has been for YEARS! It's just that now is the right time to take his rightful place as greatest of all time.



Yeah, clearly Johnson has struggled. Especially in 2010 when he played in the Olympics for USA against the best players in the world while Smith was playing against a bunch of no-names for the University of Wisconsin.

You'd think that one would be much older than the other but EJ is only 24 and ONE year older than Smith. All this time, Johnson hasn't been good enough to play in the NHL and Smith has been. Crazy world, huh??
I'll give it to you that they're underrating Johnson, but there are quite a few holes in your argument.

1. People really need to cut the whole "If he was good he would've been in the NHL by now" crap. It's well known that Detroit doesn't let their prospects on the main squad for years. The last time anybody under the age of 21 played half a season in Detroit was 12 years ago. (Fischer) Datsyuk didn't get here until he was 23. Zetterberg 22. Kronwall was what? 24? Franzen? 25 or 26. Howard was 25. I can keep going on. Detroit holds on to their guys so typically that it was generally perceived as a shock that Riley Sheahan got called up for one game last year.

2. Trying to justify Johnson playing in the Olympics and Smith not being in them is silly just based off the fact that making the Canadian squad is considerably more difficult. If I remember correctly, Doughty was a controversial selection over Mike Green for what was perceived as the "sixth spot", and Doughty is head and shoulders better than Johnson. (and Smith)

3. I love how you take a shot at Smith "playing with a bunch of no-namers in Wisconsin" during the Olympics. You're right, he was playing in Wisconsin at the time, but he wasn't alone. If I recall correctly Jake Gardiner, Justin Schultz, and Ryan McDonagh were all there too...

But those are a bunch of nobodies as well...

As I said, my position is as it always has been. Johnson is good. Smith will likely be good. Who will be better? Neither you or I knows. Johnson could be the next Cheechoo, Smith could be the next Diagle. Fact of the matter is, Detroit gets hosed giving up a guy who could be as good or better and a nearly certain top six/potentially top line forward.

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Old
11-20-2012, 10:57 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Bluesman91 View Post
If the Blues still had Johnson and got offered that deal I would take it and run. You Avs fans overrate Johnson by so much. Smith will be just as good if not better, then by adding Nyquist just makes the deal so lopsided in Colorado's favor. And don't tell me I haven't seen Johnson play because I've seen him play more than you have.
you know that for a fact? there only a year's difference in age and johnson has 280 games or so more exp. the development curve for johnson may have slowed but it was at a much higher point to begin with so it's hard to say relative with each other having smith not have played a full season yet.

have you seen enough of smith play to say he will at least equally be as good as johnson down the road?

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Old
11-20-2012, 10:57 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Bluesman91 View Post
If the Blues still had Johnson and got offered that deal I would take it and run. You Avs fans overrate Johnson by so much. Smith will be just as good if not better, then by adding Nyquist just makes the deal so lopsided in Colorado's favor. And don't tell me I haven't seen Johnson play because I've seen him play more than you have.
This is a terrible way to measure a trade. The Avs and Blues are different teams with different needs.

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11-20-2012, 11:03 PM
  #71
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This is a terrible way to measure a trade. The Avs and Blues are different teams with different needs.
I didn't take needs into consideration. The only thing I took into consideration was the progress these players would make.

Of course Johnson has more experience. The Blues were in a terrible spot and needed a defensemen desperately and Johnson was better than what we had at the time so of course he got a spot. As the Wings poster above me stated as well that it's hard to get on the Wings roster because they've been a great team for years and why slow Smith's development by putting him on a 5/6th pairing when he could be playing top pairing minutes in the AHL.

I can't say for certain Smith would be better than Johnson but I think he will turn out just as good. They are completely different players but in terms of how well they play their game I think they will be equal. I'm not saying Johnson is bad I just don't think he is as good as Avs fans make him out to be. Yes he is your top defenseman but in the long run Smith, Nyquist, and a 3rd is significantly better especially if the 3rd comes out to be a solid 3rd/4th liner. I see Nyquist being a top 6er even on the Wings in years to come.


Please don't take so much offense to it either. It's an opinion for a reason.


Last edited by Bluesman91: 11-20-2012 at 11:10 PM.
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Old
11-20-2012, 11:12 PM
  #72
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I didn't take needs into consideration. The only thing I took into consideration was the progress these players would make.

Of course Johnson has more experience. The Blues were in a terrible spot and needed a defensemen desperately and Johnson was better than what we had at the time so of course he got a spot. As the Wings poster above me stated as well that it's hard to get on the Wings roster because they've been a great team for years and why slow Smith's development by putting him on a 5/6th pairing when he could be playing top pairing minutes in the AHL.

I can't say for certain Smith would be better than Johnson but I think he will turn out just as good. They are completely different players but in terms of how well they play their game I think they will be equal. I'm not saying Johnson is bad I just don't think he is as good as Avs fans make him out to be. Yes he is your top defenseman but in the long run Smith, Nyquist, and a 3rd is significantly better especially if the 3rd comes out to be a solid 3rd/4th liner. I see Nyquist being a top 6er even on the Wings in years to come.


Please don't take so much offense to it either. It's an opinion for a reason.
Sorry, didn't mean to sound like I was taking offense. I was just pointing that out. And I do believe Smith will be good but not on par with EJ.

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Old
11-20-2012, 11:18 PM
  #73
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Sorry, didn't mean to sound like I was taking offense. I was just pointing that out. And I do believe Smith will be good but not on par with EJ.
It's fine and I understand. Maybe he won't be as good as Johnson but I don't think Johnson will be that much better if Smith doesn't reach his level. It's Nyquist and the 3rd that puts the deal over the top for me.

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Old
11-20-2012, 11:19 PM
  #74
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I wouldn't even trade Faulk alone for Marc Staal

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Old
11-20-2012, 11:31 PM
  #75
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Did I miss the crazy train? When did Brendan Smith become the greatest defensemen of all time?

Sure he has some great scoring potential at the NHL level but even so far he has only been used in a limited and somewhat protected role when he was up last season. Until he fixes his reoccurring defensive lapses, you have another Quincey with better offense. Speaking of Quincey, lets not forget that Detroit went out and acquired Quincey and then added Colaiacovo in the offseason despite having an experienced AHL pro in Smith in their system. That puts Smith way down the pecking order despite considered a top prospect for Detroit. And before the whole "Detroit likes to bring their players along slowly in the minors" gets tossed around...that has not been the case lately as we have seen players like Justin, Darren, Valtteri, Jakub, etc. all becoming regulars for Detroit at around 22/23 years of age. Even Kronwall would have been a regular at that age if not for the previous lockout. Since the lockout, Detroit has had no choice but to find value UFA signings and to bring their youth in when they are ready rather than when Detroit is ready. So yes Smith is a talented player but he still has some things in his own end that need worked on before he is even ready for a more permanent and exposed role at the NHL level.

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