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Some trade proposals of mine

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Old
11-20-2012, 11:31 PM
  #76
Avs44
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Originally Posted by MBauer View Post
If only you had a single clue as to what you're talking about.
I don't think you have a clue.


I can see why Detroit does not do that deal...if I was in their spot I would probably not want to do that either...what is hilarious is the uneducated fans trying to pretend they know more about the "Aves" than Avs fans. The Avs would politely decline...our D is a mess without EJ. We cannot afford to move him. No need to get all insulted and post dumb things because we say no. Thank you to the intelligent posters who can actually see both sides of this and not post things like "Avs take this and run" while not thinking about the Avs at all.


Stuff like this..."lol at Aves fans thinking that's bad for them. Col GM would take that deal and run, and Holland would be run out of Detroit. Perspective, folks." Wow....

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Old
11-20-2012, 11:59 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Zandar View Post
Did I miss the crazy train? When did Brendan Smith become the greatest defensemen of all time?

Sure he has some great scoring potential at the NHL level but even so far he has only been used in a limited and somewhat protected role when he was up last season. Until he fixes his reoccurring defensive lapses, you have another Quincey with better offense. Speaking of Quincey, lets not forget that Detroit went out and acquired Quincey and then added Colaiacovo in the offseason despite having an experienced AHL pro in Smith in their system. That puts Smith way down the pecking order despite considered a top prospect for Detroit. And before the whole "Detroit likes to bring their players along slowly in the minors" gets tossed around...that has not been the case lately as we have seen players like Justin, Darren, Valtteri, Jakub, etc. all becoming regulars for Detroit at around 22/23 years of age. Even Kronwall would have been a regular at that age if not for the previous lockout. Since the lockout, Detroit has had no choice but to find value UFA signings and to bring their youth in when they are ready rather than when Detroit is ready. So yes Smith is a talented player but he still has some things in his own end that need worked on before he is even ready for a more permanent and exposed role at the NHL level.
Not sure what you figured you were accomplishing by pointing out that guys come into Detroit's system at 22/23... Because by that number Smith is right on time...

But if you think he's lower in the pecking order than Colaiacovo, you're sorely misinformed.

Kronwall is obviously number one. Colo and Kindl will bounce around six and seven. Everything between is a toss-up.

Though if I had to guess, I'd put money on:

Kronwall - Quincey
Ericsson - Smith
White - Kindl/Colo

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11-21-2012, 12:08 AM
  #78
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lmao at the avs trade... no point in talking about it cause these teams would never trade with each other. which is why Quincey got traded twice instead of a three way trade.

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Old
11-21-2012, 12:12 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by avsfansince95 View Post
lmao at the avs trade... no point in talking about it cause these teams would never trade with each other. which is why Quincey got traded twice instead of a three way trade.
I like that people don't think Detroit and the Avs would trade with each other. Not in the same division and like it or not the rivalry is dead. Quincey went three ways more because Detroit didn't have what Colorado wanted.

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Old
11-21-2012, 12:23 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
Not sure what you figured you were accomplishing by pointing out that guys come into Detroit's system at 22/23... Because by that number Smith is right on time...

But if you think he's lower in the pecking order than Colaiacovo, you're sorely misinformed.

Kronwall is obviously number one. Colo and Kindl will bounce around six and seven. Everything between is a toss-up.

Though if I had to guess, I'd put money on:

Kronwall - Quincey
Ericsson - Smith
White - Kindl/Colo
The information was given to support if Smith was truly ready that Detroit wouldn't be acquiring and paying out large sums to Quincey and Colo. If you think they paid Colo the money they did to be used like you are suggesting then you may want to rethink things. If Smith had made the team to start the year, he would have still seen very limited and sheltered minutes. He's just not ready for the spotlight at the NHL level to be the all around D you and others are hyping him up to be. In fact these lofty expectations need to come down some as he looks to be potentially a very good second pairing D that will probably be thrust into situations he can not handle (like Quincey as a top pairing D) but is considered such a player because he has to try and fill that role because no one else can.

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11-21-2012, 12:24 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
I like that people don't think Detroit and the Avs would trade with each other. Not in the same division and like it or not the rivalry is dead. Quincey went three ways more because Detroit didn't have what Colorado wanted.
Lacroix has publicly stated he will not trade with Detroit.

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Old
11-21-2012, 12:27 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Zandar View Post
The information was given to support if Smith was truly ready that Detroit wouldn't be acquiring and paying out large sums to Quincey and Colo. If you think they paid Colo the money they did to be used like you are suggesting then you may want to rethink things. If Smith had made the team to start the year, he would have still seen very limited and sheltered minutes. He's just not ready for the spotlight at the NHL level to be the all around D you and others are hyping him up to be. In fact these lofty expectations need to come down some as he looks to be potentially a very good second pairing D that will probably be thrust into situations he can not handle (like Quincey as a top pairing D) but is considered such a player because he has to try and fill that role because no one else can.
If Colo wasn't getting paid what he is, Detroit would be struggling to stay above the floor. Samuelsson will be getting $3M this year, and Detroit surely wasn't short of forwards, yet this just about no chance in hell that he gets slotted higher than Nyquist.

Quincey was acquired to replace Stuart. Blatantly obvious, yet people continue to ignore it.

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Lacroix has publicly stated he will not trade with Detroit.
Ahh, my bad. That's his problem then.

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Old
11-21-2012, 12:35 AM
  #83
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No for sharks we have enough defensive depth. Couture will eventualy replace Big Joe (if that's possible hes a beast) but we need offensive depth. Moving him would not be a wise idea.

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Old
11-21-2012, 12:55 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
If Colo wasn't getting paid what he is, Detroit would be struggling to stay above the floor. Samuelsson will be getting $3M this year, and Detroit surely wasn't short of forwards, yet this just about no chance in hell that he gets slotted higher than Nyquist.

Quincey was acquired to replace Stuart. Blatantly obvious, yet people continue to ignore it.



Ahh, my bad. That's his problem then.
Why would either of those players need to be paid more just to get above the cap floor? Detroit currently sits around 60 million. If the players tooks 1 million less and looked to be playing where you are expecting them to play at, Detroit would still be easily over the floor. Detroit expects these players to have specific roles with the team. Whether they are able to meet those expectations is another thing. As for the two current NHL superstars toiling in GR, let's give them some time at the NHL level before we start proclaiming them to be something bigger than they are projected to be.

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11-21-2012, 01:00 AM
  #85
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Detroit fans imagine having a terrible coach(as hard for you as it may be you lucky ********), then being offered Elliott, Sgarbossa and a 3rd for Kronwall

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Old
11-21-2012, 01:06 AM
  #86
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Detroit fans imagine having a terrible coach(as hard for you as it may be you lucky ********), then being offered Elliott, Sgarbossa and a 3rd for Kronwall
You are going to be murdered by wings fans for trying to compare their prospects with Elliot and Sgarbossa...and I completely agree with them if they do.

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11-21-2012, 01:30 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
You are going to be murdered by wings fans for trying to compare their prospects with Elliot and Sgarbossa...and I completely agree with them if they do.
I completely recognize that they have more value, in my head i had a 1st with them, just typed 3rd for some reason, but I also feel EJ holds more value then Kronwall

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11-21-2012, 01:57 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Zandar View Post
Why would either of those players need to be paid more just to get above the cap floor? Detroit currently sits around 60 million. If the players tooks 1 million less and looked to be playing where you are expecting them to play at, Detroit would still be easily over the floor. Detroit expects these players to have specific roles with the team. Whether they are able to meet those expectations is another thing. As for the two current NHL superstars toiling in GR, let's give them some time at the NHL level before we start proclaiming them to be something bigger than they are projected to be.
Detroit still has to cut two players to make it under the roster limit. Once that's done you hover pretty close. It'd be pretty inconvenient if somebody was LTIR'ed or didn't come back from Euro-leagues. Regardless, as I said, just because somebody else is getting paid more than Smith doesn't mean he's getting a higher spot.

That'd be like saying Nyquist will only play half the season because Tootoo was signed during the offseason for $1.9M a season.

Considering Nyquist is playing better than his projection right now... Watched him in the NHL. Quite frankly was more impressed with him that I was with Smith. The only real knock on him was that he was so scrawny he was getting tossed around easily. I believe he put on something like 10-15 pounds during the offseason.

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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
You are going to be murdered by wings fans for trying to compare their prospects with Elliot and Sgarbossa...and I completely agree with them if they do.
You're right...

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Originally Posted by avsman View Post
I completely recognize that they have more value, in my head i had a 1st with them, just typed 3rd for some reason, but I also feel EJ holds more value then Kronwall
Kronwall's the better defender IMO, but yeah, EJ has more value simply based off age.

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Old
11-21-2012, 04:03 AM
  #89
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You can't be serious...
It's not to far fetched, Smith is looking good and it wouldn't surprise me.

Edmonton get's bent over with that offer and passes.

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Old
11-21-2012, 04:06 AM
  #90
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I don't think you have a clue.


I can see why Detroit does not do that deal...if I was in their spot I would probably not want to do that either...what is hilarious is the uneducated fans trying to pretend they know more about the "Aves" than Avs fans. The Avs would politely decline...our D is a mess without EJ. We cannot afford to move him. No need to get all insulted and post dumb things because we say no. Thank you to the intelligent posters who can actually see both sides of this and not post things like "Avs take this and run" while not thinking about the Avs at all.


Stuff like this..."lol at Aves fans thinking that's bad for them. Col GM would take that deal and run, and Holland would be run out of Detroit. Perspective, folks." Wow....


I wasn't even talking about the value of the deal, i was more referring to the fact that he called Smith and Nyquist unknowns and how their junior numbers mean nothing when both guys played in the NCAA, are now playing in the AHL (only because of the lockout), and have looked good in the time they spent in the NHL. To imply their as unproven as junior players is an insult to them.

If you looked at my post right below the previous one you would actually see that i am in agreement with you, i never said the value was terrible for either team but rather it just doesn't make sense.

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11-21-2012, 06:50 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
You are going to be murdered by wings fans for trying to compare their prospects with Elliot and Sgarbossa...and I completely agree with them if they do.
Hang on now though, whats the big difference between packages here?

Sgarbossa is doing exactly what Nyquist is doing in the AHL right now, there both tearing it up. Sgarbossa is 3 years younger, and both players are either late round picks or undrafted, how are there values any different from one another right now? Other then the fact that Nyquist is more known because Wings fans talk about him more then Avs fans with Sgarbossa...

Elliott probably doesnt hold the value Smith does right now, but its really not all that far off. Barrie probably would have been a better player in comparison.

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Old
11-21-2012, 07:32 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
I don't think you have a clue.


I can see why Detroit does not do that deal...if I was in their spot I would probably not want to do that either...what is hilarious is the uneducated fans trying to pretend they know more about the "Aves" than Avs fans. The Avs would politely decline...our D is a mess without EJ. We cannot afford to move him. No need to get all insulted and post dumb things because we say no. Thank you to the intelligent posters who can actually see both sides of this and not post things like "Avs take this and run" while not thinking about the Avs at all.


Stuff like this..."lol at Aves fans thinking that's bad for them. Col GM would take that deal and run, and Holland would be run out of Detroit. Perspective, folks." Wow....
This post sums up my point. Wings fans can say that's an over-payment for Johnson and they could well be right, but there is no way in hell the Avs make this trade. If you were the GM of a team and someone phoned you up saying:

"Hi! We'd like your best defenseman for two prospects and a 3rd, leaving you with a whole d-corps who are all not first pairing defensemen,"

You are not going to take the deal, nor is it foolish to know that your GM wouldn't take it if it's offered in reality.


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Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
Ahh, my bad. That's his problem then.
It's an aside, but if this (Lacroix saying he won't trade with Detroit is true) then there are bigger problems afoot in Denver.

(It's not all bad though, I'd rather have Downie than Quincey or that 1st rounder )

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11-21-2012, 09:51 AM
  #93
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Hang on now though, whats the big difference between packages here?

Sgarbossa is doing exactly what Nyquist is doing in the AHL right now, there both tearing it up. Sgarbossa is 3 years younger, and both players are either late round picks or undrafted, how are there values any different from one another right now? Other then the fact that Nyquist is more known because Wings fans talk about him more then Avs fans with Sgarbossa...

Elliott probably doesnt hold the value Smith does right now, but its really not all that far off. Barrie probably would have been a better player in comparison.
Nyquist is a Red Wings prospect which means plus 50 prospect points.

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11-21-2012, 10:18 AM
  #94
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This post sums up my point. Wings fans can say that's an over-payment for Johnson and they could well be right, but there is no way in hell the Avs make this trade. If you were the GM of a team and someone phoned you up saying:

"Hi! We'd like your best defenseman for two prospects and a 3rd, leaving you with a whole d-corps who are all not first pairing defensemen,"

You are not going to take the deal, nor is it foolish to know that your GM wouldn't take it if it's offered in reality.




It's an aside, but if this (Lacroix saying he won't trade with Detroit is true) then there are bigger problems afoot in Denver.

(It's not all bad though, I'd rather have Downie than Quincey or that 1st rounder )
Although, as it eventually turned out, that first rounder is going to end up being the best of the three players.

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Old
11-21-2012, 10:42 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
Detroit still has to cut two players to make it under the roster limit. Once that's done you hover pretty close. It'd be pretty inconvenient if somebody was LTIR'ed or didn't come back from Euro-leagues. Regardless, as I said, just because somebody else is getting paid more than Smith doesn't mean he's getting a higher spot.

That'd be like saying Nyquist will only play half the season because Tootoo was signed during the offseason for $1.9M a season.

Considering Nyquist is playing better than his projection right now... Watched him in the NHL. Quite frankly was more impressed with him that I was with Smith. The only real knock on him was that he was so scrawny he was getting tossed around easily. I believe he put on something like 10-15 pounds during the offseason.
It is not about someone being paid more than someone else (who is still a prospect), it is the fact that Detroit flooded their ranks with players that take spots that Smith (and even Nyquist) could be worked into. You don't go out and spend the kind of money they did on players you expect to be playing in much smaller roles. Cut 2 players? and drop their current payroll from around 62 million to more around 60 million like I mentioned. They are still going to be 4-5 million over the current cap floor (not taking into account what was expected to drop under 50 million with the a new CBA). Detroit didn't overspend on these players because of cap issues. Even the players overseas on contracts are on "loan" and the leagues can not keep them because of the rules in place. And why would most players stay over there for pennies compared to what they make here? The KHL is the only league to worry about and do you really think Pavel will stay? You are grasping at something imaginary and ignoring the reality. Detroit made the moves because they expect those players to be good options in bigger roles than what you think. Could Smith and/or Nyquist outshine someone? Sure but Detroit is still taking a cautious and slow approach as they (at least Smith) still had things to work out.

Nyquist has looked really good (at the AHL level) now that he has worked on getting bigger and shooting more but you are still looking at someone more complimentary like a Hudler than someone like Datsyuk or Zetterberg. I am not saying that Nyquist or Smith are not going to be good players, they just project to be players with the quality of a Hudler and a Quincey (with better offense).

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11-21-2012, 12:11 PM
  #96
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I think that is the duty of the Wings here. I mean the Avs are the ones getting ***** here.

And they get it pretty bad.

We get a few prospects who probably don't amount to anything special ( yeah I know Smith is good but as centerpiece for EJ? Are you kidding? ) for our #1 dman who would be the best dman on Detroit by far.

Yeah EJ is probably not as good as he should be.
That said he is playing very steady and solid and still has plenty of room for improvement.

Good thing we would never trade directly with Detroit.
Smith and Nyquist both have star potential. On most other teams they would've been up the whole season last year. Smith is one of the best defenseman prospects in the league. Nyquist has put up at least a ppg pace in every league he's been in besides the nhl. I'm not even sure I would take Johnson over Kronwall, yet along him being the best defenseman by far..

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11-21-2012, 12:41 PM
  #97
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Lol...yeah Smith has been putting up numbers not unlike John-Michael Liles. OMGZ THE MESSIAH IS HERE!!! His 14 NHL games are something to behold and it's not that he hasn't been good enough to play in the NHL before, he was and has been for YEARS! It's just that now is the right time to take his rightful place as greatest of all time.

Overreact much? Me preferring Smith over Johnson (which I didn't even say there) doesn't mean I think he's going to be the greatest player ever.


You'd think that one would be much older than the other but EJ is only 24 and ONE year older than Smith. All this time, Johnson hasn't been good enough to play in the NHL and Smith has been. Crazy world, huh??

Or the team Smith plays for had much better players in front of him and Detroit likes to take more time than necessary when developing players?

Yeah probably although it looks as though he's also going to have to leapfrog about 30 guys as well considering he's not even on that list. MAN, he's SO GOOD, he's under everyone's radar....he's like a super-spy submarine or something.

Pretty sure no rookies are on that list. Not sure how that is relevant. He hasn't played his first season yet. Of course he isn't going to be there. Would you put Yakupov on a top 50 forwards list right now? Or put Hamilton on a top defenseman list?

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1247437


And by the by, homer wings fans, you want to compare EJ and Smith well then you need to put Brendan Smith in the same exact situation as EJ finds himself in with THIS Colorado team as opposed to completely insolated by a veteran team that had guys like Lidstrom, Kronwall & Stuart.

So you're arguing that Smith isn't good enough to be on the team before this year because he's not better than any of our other defensemen yet you're also arguing he has an advantage because he has good players around him? You can't have it both ways.

I remember when JM Liles came in and started playing for us and he started his NHL career with Rob Blake. Much, MUCH easier to do than when you're alternating between Shane O'Brien and Matt Hunwick.
Put my responses in bold

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11-21-2012, 12:44 PM
  #98
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Did I miss the crazy train? When did Brendan Smith become the greatest defensemen of all time?

Sure he has some great scoring potential at the NHL level but even so far he has only been used in a limited and somewhat protected role when he was up last season. Until he fixes his reoccurring defensive lapses, you have another Quincey with better offense. Speaking of Quincey, lets not forget that Detroit went out and acquired Quincey and then added Colaiacovo in the offseason despite having an experienced AHL pro in Smith in their system. That puts Smith way down the pecking order despite considered a top prospect for Detroit. And before the whole "Detroit likes to bring their players along slowly in the minors" gets tossed around...that has not been the case lately as we have seen players like Justin, Darren, Valtteri, Jakub, etc. all becoming regulars for Detroit at around 22/23 years of age. Even Kronwall would have been a regular at that age if not for the previous lockout. Since the lockout, Detroit has had no choice but to find value UFA signings and to bring their youth in when they are ready rather than when Detroit is ready. So yes Smith is a talented player but he still has some things in his own end that need worked on before he is even ready for a more permanent and exposed role at the NHL level.
We acquired Quincey because we knew Stuart was most likely going to leave. We signed Coliacavo because we only had 6 nhl defenseman. He was a depth signing. It doesn't put Smith down the pecking order at all, it just means we would prefer not to put guys that aren't ready in from the AHL when injuries come.

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11-21-2012, 01:30 PM
  #99
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LOL at Detroit fans saying Smith will be better than Johnson in a year. LOL

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11-21-2012, 01:44 PM
  #100
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LOL at Detroit fans saying Smith will be better than Johnson in a year. LOL
Well, I really SHOULD reconsider what I'm saying and stop arguing with hardcore wings fans. After all, they did sign Suter and Parise* so they are going to be at the top of the league yet again!

*I was told it was a lock back in June, so I didn't bother to check whether it actually happened or not.

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