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Lockout Thread II

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Old
11-16-2012, 04:54 PM
  #76
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I'm starting to believe Gary Betman is an idiot. In the midst of a conversation with Mike Russo Betman says "I watched Craig Leopold sit accross from Donald and tell him the the contract process is broken. His conviction was exemplary".

Does this guy think about what he is about to say? Craig leopold is the same guy that in one day gave two 13 year contracts for insane money. No wonder Ryan Sutter essentially called his new boss a snake and a hypocrite a month after he was signed.

Bettman is also the same guy that for the last year has been throwing around "record revenue" to every fan and media source who will listen or print. He has been so proud to pimp himself and the league. Fact is there is no such thing as record revenues. Every company continues to grow or they close. If you don't grow you close, because large corperations bank on increased revnue and spend in accordance in order to build. Fast forward a year and everything he's been saying has been lawyer speak and shifty words in order to trick people into a false sense a satisfaction in the sport. the guy didn't realize that obviously the NHLPA would call him on this stuff.

Have you ever heard any sport parade words like record revenue around? Never. because the oher sports don't need to lie or manipulate people into believing their success. They also know that those words will bite you in the ass.

Now Bettman is telling Russo that the NHLPA needs a couple weeks to rethink their stance. Obviously this is a power play and betman knows this will make the NHLPA desperate but he doesn't need to say anything. He's saying that he'll just do two more weeks of damage to the sport just to get into the head of the players. Fans don't take kindly to that stuff even if it was the strategic move. Just don't F'ing talk about it.

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11-16-2012, 05:23 PM
  #77
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Making the players "desperate" in the hope they will capitulate doesn't seem like the move of a stupid person. If you don't feel the other side is offering anything, which the league doesn't believe the union is doing (same offer five times), then why not get into their heads and hope the players start to crack?

The players cracking is how this thing end regardless, that's why it's so stupid. Owners are wealthy due to interests outside of hockey while the players are rich--a portion anyways--from playing hockey. Who needs who more? Fehr has been able to get the league to somewhat negotiate against itself but there is going to be a point where Fehr crosses the Rubicon and blows everything. He's at the craps table right now; he needs to know when to walk away while he's up because, at a certain point, they will get crushed.

As for the earlier post mentioning the use of "K" instead of "M", I'm an underwriter and use "M" to reperesent thousands and "MM" for millions. It's how we roll.

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11-16-2012, 05:32 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by BigKing View Post
Making the players "desperate" in the hope they will capitulate doesn't seem like the move of a stupid person. If you don't feel the other side is offering anything, which the league doesn't believe the union is doing (same offer five times), then why not get into their heads and hope the players start to crack?

.
I said that was the strategic move. He shouldn't try to spin it though. Just keep it quiet. That was such a small portion of my argument though. A throw in, if you will.

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11-16-2012, 07:39 PM
  #79
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I said that was the strategic move. He shouldn't try to spin it though. Just keep it quiet. That was such a small portion of my argument though. A throw in, if you will.
Sorry man...the post led off with calling Bettman an idiot. I understand you have a problem with him saying he will do it as opposed to just doing it.

Of course, if the league tells Fehr they want a moratorium for two weeks, it's Fehr's story to spin to the media if Bettman doesn't say it first. One of the first rules of PR is that you have to be the one to frame story. League is definitely winning the PR war at this point but they are making a more concerted effort during this lock out and the weak economy works heavily against the players.

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Old
11-17-2012, 02:16 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by BigKing View Post
Sorry man...the post led off with calling Bettman an idiot. I understand you have a problem with him saying he will do it as opposed to just doing it.

Of course, if the league tells Fehr they want a moratorium for two weeks, it's Fehr's story to spin to the media if Bettman doesn't say it first. One of the first rules of PR is that you have to be the one to frame story. League is definitely winning the PR war at this point but they are making a more concerted effort during this lock out and the weak economy works heavily against the players.
For what it's worth, I was being sensational calling him a possible idiot. He's intelligent. There are key points in conversations and interviews that you can determine the level of smarts. He's got them. But some of the things he has said have bitten him in the ass and it makes you wonder how in the world can he repeated say these things, or if he even thinks about what he's about to say.

Also, it should be said that I have repeatedly said in this thread that I don't blame GB for this lockout. He's supporting 30 businesses that have been fighting eachother, and their employees. That's tough to control and make it out like all is well.

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11-17-2012, 03:50 PM
  #81
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Besides all this lockout stuff.

Does anyone have a update on the injury status of AM? Facial surgery doesn't sound good!

Edited: DL says AM is out 3 weeks and isn't as bad as he could have been. Good news!


Last edited by Tadite: 11-17-2012 at 04:28 PM. Reason: DL Interview
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Old
11-17-2012, 05:52 PM
  #82
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I thought this was kind of funny. Ian White say this ghours after I post about Betman being an idiot.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/86...-bettman-idiot


Quote:
Detroit Red Wings defenseman Ian White had some harsh words for NHL commissioner Gary Bettman.


"I gotta be honest: I personally think he's an idiot,"
Funny thing is Ian White comes off really dumb in this column. Man, the NHLPA needs to shut these guys up.

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Old
11-18-2012, 10:40 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by no name View Post
I thought this was kind of funny. Ian White say this ghours after I post about Betman being an idiot.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/86...-bettman-idiot




Funny thing is Ian White comes off really dumb in this column. Man, the NHLPA needs to shut these guys up.
Unbelievably so. This kind of stuff is doing absolutely nothing to help the negotiations. Before the NHL players start calling Bettman an idiot, they need to take a long look in the mirror at how their own organization has handled this matter.

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Old
11-18-2012, 10:58 PM
  #84
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Decrease Text SizeIncrease Text Size
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The NHL and NHLPA intend on resuming bargaining Monday night in New York City.

The dynamic of those attending hasn't been confirmed, although it's expected both players and owners will be involved in what is described as a "smaller group" meeting.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409721

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11-21-2012, 09:21 AM
  #85
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This I did NOT see coming. I also do not see a point.
"Dear Parliament. It's all their fault."

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409973

Doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in todays meetings between the NHL and NHLPA.

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11-21-2012, 09:45 AM
  #86
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Per Twitter:


Quote:
Darren Dreger @DarrenDreger
PA moves off its position on guaranteed players share dollars + shifts more to the owners demand of a percentage base in the revenue split.
Players move off guaranteed dollars is a big move in the owners direction. Interested to hear NHL response to PA's ask for more Make Whole $

Quote:
Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie

We're hearing today's NHLPA proposal to NHL will include increasing the NHL's $211M Make Whole provision by another $180M.
We're also hearing the NHLPA proposal will work off a percentage of HRR -- as requested by NHL -- and not a guaranteed dollar amount.
But what those percentages are, and whether the $180M increase in Make Whole acts as a guarantee of sorts, remains to be seen.

Quote:
Aaron Ward@aaronward_nhl
In NYC for meetings. Early indication NHLPA has made a significant move in the direction of the owners.

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Last edited by Ron: 11-21-2012 at 10:03 AM.
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Old
11-21-2012, 10:12 AM
  #87
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Let's see what the proposed split is before we say there's going to be hockey any time soon. Owners aren't going to like essentially doubling make whole. The fact this was leaked as the meeting starts screams PR move by the players to me. Dreger's use of "more" also makes me think they didn't go to 50/50 linked split.

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Old
11-21-2012, 10:29 AM
  #88
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Per Twitter:

Quote:

Shelly Anderson @pgshelly
Sidney Crosby on NHLPA proposal: "We're making a move in their direction, so I don't see why they wouldn't consider it."

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11-21-2012, 10:35 AM
  #89
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Per Twitter:


Quote:
Shelly Anderson@pgshelly
More Crosby: "We wanted progress, but it takes both sides. They're going to have to move a little bit, too. It just shows we all want to play."
More Crosby: "What we want back on the make-whole is not even close to what we're putting on the table, everything combined."
More Crosby: "It's a little closer to their proposal. It's definitely something they'll have to consider, or they should at least."

Quote:
Chris Johnston@reporterchris
Donald Fehr says new proposal is "about as good we can do."
Donald Fehr says sides are $182 million apart over the five-year deal.
The NHLPA expects a response from the NHL on the new proposal this afternoon.

Quote:
Pierre LeBrun@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Fehr says both sides will reconvene at 1 pm ET


Last edited by Ron: 11-21-2012 at 10:51 AM. Reason: Formatting.
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Old
11-21-2012, 10:41 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Inner Turbulence View Post
This I did NOT see coming. I also do not see a point.
"Dear Parliament. It's all their fault."

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409973

Doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in todays meetings between the NHL and NHLPA.
They are so very very VERY out of touch with reality on both sides...

This only affects 6 of the 30 teams in the league, and serves no purpose other than rile people up over wasting their governments time. I do love the crying about not being able to play through negotiations coming from the guy who pulled a strike before the playoffs the last time he was involved in that... Stay classy NHL. Stay classy NHLPA.

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Old
11-21-2012, 11:10 AM
  #91
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Per Twitter:


Quote:
Darren Dreger@DarrenDreger
Fehr wouldn't confirm he was pushed to change PA's position in proposal, but, told he and hardliners had to be convinced to move.

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11-21-2012, 11:33 AM
  #92
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Per Twitter:


Quote:
Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
NYR star B. Richards via text on PA proposal: "It is a move in their direction again and based off of their proposal. There has to be an effort from them to get this done now."

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Old
11-21-2012, 11:35 AM
  #93
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Wake me up when November ends!

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11-21-2012, 12:11 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
I have no clue how NHL reacts but I suspect it will want to negotiate $182M difference on Make Whole and will continue to push on systems. 5 per cent variance rule and combined anti-second contract measures (2 yr ELS, 1 yr delay on arb) are key, but are they hills worth dying on. Term may an issue. I'd be surprised if NHL enters into any agreement less than 6 years and 8-10 yr deal with "opt out" after 6 preferable.

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Old
11-21-2012, 12:14 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
NHLPA proposal took NHL structure, 50/50 in year 1; Only difference,took $211M (make whole) to $393M over 4 yrs, So the difference in both Make Whole offers is the $182 M that Fehr cited

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Old
11-21-2012, 12:34 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
Let's see what the proposed split is before we say there's going to be hockey any time soon. Owners aren't going to like essentially doubling make whole. The fact this was leaked as the meeting starts screams PR move by the players to me. Dreger's use of "more" also makes me think they didn't go to 50/50 linked split.
I'm sure the owners expected the make whole being doubled. You can't agree employ someone for one hundred dollars and the pay with a hundred dollar bill ripped in half. Nobody has been on the owners side on this matter.

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11-21-2012, 12:41 PM
  #97
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Full NHLPA proposal here:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409992

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11-21-2012, 12:46 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Renaud Lavoie @RenLavoieRDS
NHLPA still rejecting a maximum of 5 years on contract.

Quote:
Sam Carchidi ‏@BroadStBull
In players' proposal, clubs will take a cap hit on contracts in the minors over $1M . This is a big (and surprising) concession by players.

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Old
11-21-2012, 01:21 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron View Post




Oh dear,
hear comes that feeling of optimism creeping in. again. I wonder if it'll be another disappointment.

Got to say though, it MAY be the step that was urgently needed from the PA. Them moving off the de-linking of league revenue and players' share. For once I feel the PA has made a substantive move. Good on them.

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Old
11-21-2012, 01:48 PM
  #100
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Report: NHL and NHLPA agree to move free agency start date, trading cap space

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...ing-cap-space/

HOLY ****! They actually agree on something!

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