HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

NJ - Boston (Larsson)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-19-2012, 02:51 PM
  #76
Saugus
Ecrasez l'infame!
 
Saugus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 97,441
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Saugus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Good post.

Any names on Lou's radar yet for a top-6 wing? I cant imagine the team wants to run with Clarkson there, he seems perfectly suited for a 3rd line checking role.
Nobody ever knows what is on Lou's radar, and anyone who claims to know is lying.

You're right about Clarkson. He belongs on the third line, no higher, no lower.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
On paper your proposal is interesting and close value wise IMO, but I think Larsson means too much to them organizationally to even consider it. I however would do it in a second haha.
And there's the problem. If the package being given up doesn't hurt, doesn't give you pause for even a second, then it's clear we're getting hosed.

Saugus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 03:31 PM
  #77
hlaverty06
Registered User
 
hlaverty06's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: NJ all day
Country: United States
Posts: 7,270
vCash: 500
I expect our top 9 to be

Kovalchuk-Zajac-Zubrus
Elias-Henrique-Butler/Sykora (if resigned even though it probably won't happen, him and Patty have such great chemistry)
Carter-Josefson-Clarkson

hlaverty06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 03:35 PM
  #78
hlaverty06
Registered User
 
hlaverty06's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: NJ all day
Country: United States
Posts: 7,270
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
Then why do well-respected GMs like Chiarelli take a "crapshoot" pick like Subban in the 1st round? Goalie prospects are hard to judge, but they absolutely are NOT equal.

I agree with the rest of your post tho, well done. Subban as the centerpiece of a deal would be idiotic for you guys.
Dan Cloutier was taken first round (as were others) , so there are no guarantees with any prospects but goalies are definitely more of a risk

hlaverty06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 06:38 PM
  #79
Zippy316
Registered User
 
Zippy316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,825
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hlaverty06 View Post
I expect our top 9 to be

Kovalchuk-Zajac-Zubrus
Elias-Henrique-Butler/Sykora (if resigned even though it probably won't happen, him and Patty have such great chemistry)
Carter-Josefson-Clarkson


Keep him on the fourth line, where he belongs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hlaverty06 View Post
Dan Cloutier was taken first round (as were others) , so there are no guarantees with any prospects but goalies are definitely more of a risk
Ari Ahonen

Zippy316 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2012, 11:25 PM
  #80
AfroThunder396
Lou's Secret Sauce
 
AfroThunder396's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hamburg, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 20,648
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post


Keep him on the fourth line, where he belongs.
As much as I think our 4th line is baller as hell and don't want to mess with it, I wouldn't mind Ryan Carter getting a few shifts on the 3rd line. Of all our 4th liners, he's got the tools necessary to moonlight on the 3rd line and not look out of place. He's got enough speed, balls, and scoring touch to contribute outside of a 4th line role.

AfroThunder396 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2012, 11:27 PM
  #81
Bleedred
BEAT LA!
 
Bleedred's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Seminole Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 31,901
vCash: 500
I still wouldn't give Larsson for Seguin. I'm not a fan of the cap hit on Seguin's next contract. Not saying it would cripple us, but I'd be afraid we couldn't re sign both Zajac, and Clarkson.

Bleedred is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2012, 11:32 PM
  #82
rynryn
Progress to the Mean
 
rynryn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Minny
Country: United States
Posts: 20,703
vCash: 50
i wouldn't trade any good player away and bank on an unproven (in the NHL) goalie to pan out perfectly. nooo way. goalies are too flaky.

rynryn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2012, 05:36 AM
  #83
Oates2Neely
Registered User
 
Oates2Neely's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: BeanTown
Country: Azores
Posts: 6,270
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
I still wouldn't give Larsson for Seguin. I'm not a fan of the cap hit on Seguin's next contract. Not saying it would cripple us, but I'd be afraid we couldn't re sign both Zajac, and Clarkson.
Ya you wouldnt get the opportunity to trade Larsson for Seguin anyhow.

Oates2Neely is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2012, 10:57 AM
  #84
Zippy316
Registered User
 
Zippy316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,825
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AfroThunder396 View Post
As much as I think our 4th line is baller as hell and don't want to mess with it, I wouldn't mind Ryan Carter getting a few shifts on the 3rd line. Of all our 4th liners, he's got the tools necessary to moonlight on the 3rd line and not look out of place. He's got enough speed, balls, and scoring touch to contribute outside of a 4th line role.
I love Carter and Bernier, but there's a reason they are on the fourth line. They are great fourth liners that can really take advantage of playing against weaker opponents, and still hold their own if they get put out against top lines, but we saw Carter on the third line and he wasn't all that good.

Sure, he could fill in on the third line, so could Bernier, but I definitely not want to have him penciled in there right now. Much rather see Tedenby or Butler given a shot.

Zippy316 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2012, 11:01 AM
  #85
Yashintangibles
6 Million Dollar Man
 
Yashintangibles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: At The Bank
Country: Yugoslavia
Posts: 3,531
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
I love Carter and Bernier, but there's a reason they are on the fourth line. They are great fourth liners that can really take advantage of playing against weaker opponents, and still hold their own if they get put out against top lines, but we saw Carter on the third line and he wasn't all that good.

Sure, he could fill in on the third line, so could Bernier, but I definitely not want to have him penciled in there right now. Much rather see Tedenby or Butler given a shot.
I agree, Carter and Bernier are too weak possession players to take consistent third line duties.

Yashintangibles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2012, 11:03 AM
  #86
Zippy316
Registered User
 
Zippy316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,825
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri the Fury View Post
I agree, Carter and Bernier are too weak possession players to take consistent third line duties.
It was a reason why they both looked so good in between Josefson and Gionta, both guys were pretty good carrying the puck, Josefson moreso than Gionta.

Zippy316 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2012, 11:06 AM
  #87
Tim Vezina Thomas
Dougie Time
 
Tim Vezina Thomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 6,734
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hlaverty06 View Post
Dan Cloutier was taken first round (as were others) , so there are no guarantees with any prospects but goalies are definitely more of a risk
Carey Price was taken top five and hes one of the best goalies in the NHL. Goalies are definitely more of a risk than positional players, but taking a goalie in the 1st round isnt some dumb "crap shoot" pick. Goalie prospects arent created equal, taking one in the 1st round can a lot of the time be justified (if it couldn't, NHL GMs wouldnt be doing it).

Tim Vezina Thomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2012, 11:10 AM
  #88
Tim Vezina Thomas
Dougie Time
 
Tim Vezina Thomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 6,734
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
I still wouldn't give Larsson for Seguin. I'm not a fan of the cap hit on Seguin's next contract. Not saying it would cripple us, but I'd be afraid we couldn't re sign both Zajac, and Clarkson.
Lol you dont want to trade Seguin for Larsson because it affects your ability to re sign Zajac and Clarkson? Please. Seguins on a different planet then either of them value wise. I'd certainly trade Krejci for Taylor Hall.

If you don't want to trade Larsson for Seguin because you value Larsson higher, thats understandale, but the above reason is a joke.

Tim Vezina Thomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2012, 12:00 PM
  #89
Yashintangibles
6 Million Dollar Man
 
Yashintangibles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: At The Bank
Country: Yugoslavia
Posts: 3,531
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
Lol you dont want to trade Seguin for Larsson because it affects your ability to re sign Zajac and Clarkson? Please. Seguins on a different planet then either of them value wise. I'd certainly trade Krejci for Taylor Hall.

If you don't want to trade Larsson for Seguin because you value Larsson higher, thats understandale, but the above reason is a joke.
It's about salary cap and Devils financial issues. Larsson's making $925 000 the next 2 season, Seguin will make $5.7 millions in 2013-2014. That's quite a gap when you're in financial trouble.

If, in a way or another, the Devils have to say good bye to Larsson (trade), Zajac and Clarkson (indecent contract propositions) to get Seguin, it's not a good deal for them.

But Boston should keep Seguin and same goes for New Jersey with Larsson anyway.

Yashintangibles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2012, 12:16 PM
  #90
Zippy316
Registered User
 
Zippy316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,825
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
Lol you dont want to trade Seguin for Larsson because it affects your ability to re sign Zajac and Clarkson? Please. Seguins on a different planet then either of them value wise. I'd certainly trade Krejci for Taylor Hall.

If you don't want to trade Larsson for Seguin because you value Larsson higher, thats understandale, but the above reason is a joke.
If Taylor hall had a cap hit of 10 million you wouldn't, (Krejci's salary plus the difference between Seguin and Larsson).

Not, his reasoning is not a joke. The Devils obtaining Seguin will essentially turn the trade into Larsson+Zajac/Clarkson (or both), because they wouldn't have the money to resign them or the cap space depending on where the cap is. You wouldn't trade Krejci for a guy that has an insanely high cap hit because it would put you in serious cap trouble, just like it would handicap us financially.

Zippy316 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2012, 12:31 PM
  #91
nmbr_24
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,587
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
Lol you dont want to trade Seguin for Larsson because it affects your ability to re sign Zajac and Clarkson? Please. Seguins on a different planet then either of them value wise. I'd certainly trade Krejci for Taylor Hall.

If you don't want to trade Larsson for Seguin because you value Larsson higher, thats understandale, but the above reason is a joke.
I agree entirely. To not want Seguin because he will have a $5.75 million cap hit is a bit silly in my eyes.

NJ also has a ton of cap space after this year and the $38 million they will have should let them prioritize the players they want to sign as long as those players even want to re-sign there. Having Seguin at $5.75 million for 6 years is something that I think every team in the league would want.

If someone values having a ptential all star type of D over Seguin, that is one thing, not wanting him to keep a couple of lesser players when they will have a ton of cap space is something else.

nmbr_24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2012, 12:40 PM
  #92
nmbr_24
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,587
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
If Taylor hall had a cap hit of 10 million you wouldn't, (Krejci's salary plus the difference between Seguin and Larsson).

Not, his reasoning is not a joke. The Devils obtaining Seguin will essentially turn the trade into Larsson+Zajac/Clarkson (or both), because they wouldn't have the money to resign them or the cap space depending on where the cap is. You wouldn't trade Krejci for a guy that has an insanely high cap hit because it would put you in serious cap trouble, just like it would handicap us financially.
How exactly would they not have enough cap space? You do realize that if Larsson comes close to his potential by the time his contract is up he will get as much as Seguin is getting. So you have one more year of Larsson at this price and there is a pretty good chance his contract is as high or higher than Seguin's.

The Devils will have $38 million in cap sace next year, maybe they can't keep everyone, but I think it is more likely that the players they would lose would be Zubrus or Elias. Elias is going to be what, 38? Maybe he re-signs for a heck of a lot less than his $6 million. Elias at $6 million for 1 year or Seguin at $5.75 for 6 years, I know who I would take.

nmbr_24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2012, 12:48 PM
  #93
Yashintangibles
6 Million Dollar Man
 
Yashintangibles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: At The Bank
Country: Yugoslavia
Posts: 3,531
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
I agree entirely. To not want Seguin because he will have a $5.75 million cap hit is a bit silly in my eyes.

NJ also has a ton of cap space after this year and the $38 million they will have should let them prioritize the players they want to sign as long as those players even want to re-sign there. Having Seguin at $5.75 million for 6 years is something that I think every team in the league would want.

If someone values having a ptential all star type of D over Seguin, that is one thing, not wanting him to keep a couple of lesser players when they will have a ton of cap space is something else.
Ok, nice projection when no one here knows what will be the next salary cap ceiling.

To make it short, Devils prefer keeping Larsson, period.

Yashintangibles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2012, 01:18 PM
  #94
Zippy316
Registered User
 
Zippy316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,825
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
How exactly would they not have enough cap space? You do realize that if Larsson comes close to his potential by the time his contract is up he will get as much as Seguin is getting. So you have one more year of Larsson at this price and there is a pretty good chance his contract is as high or higher than Seguin's.

The Devils will have $38 million in cap sace next year, maybe they can't keep everyone, but I think it is more likely that the players they would lose would be Zubrus or Elias. Elias is going to be what, 38? Maybe he re-signs for a heck of a lot less than his $6 million. Elias at $6 million for 1 year or Seguin at $5.75 for 6 years, I know who I would take.
Actually, Larsson doesn't get a raise until 2014-2015, and defenseman typically don't get such a substantial raise like forwards do. Seguin immediately eats up into that money for 2013-2014, money that we can put forth to Elias, Zajac, Clarkson, and Zubrus. Elias is more important to the Devils right now than Seguin is to the Bruins. Elias is the Devils offense.

Devils will have 38 million in cap space on the 70 million dollar cap, which is very likely to be lowered. They may not have the money or they may choose not to spend to the cap ceiling either. Seguin's not worth it for the resulting damage it will cause, especially if we send Larsson the other way as well.

Zippy316 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2012, 02:27 PM
  #95
wKetch22
Pure Grime
 
wKetch22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: NH/NY
Country: United States
Posts: 9,506
vCash: 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by hlaverty06 View Post
Wedgewood and Frazee are the likely candidates to take over for Marty.

As for the proposal, I know you can't go wrong with two guys but you've got Dougie Hamilton in the works. Larsson isn't going to put absurd offensive numbers up he is very calm under pressure and has great field of vision. I don't think either proposals are good value wise (its not too far off) or need wise
With all due respect, I doubt Frazee is the future of Devils goaltending

I remember reading your AHL board a few weeks back and hearing a lot of moaning and groaning about him

wKetch22 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2012, 02:42 PM
  #96
AfroThunder396
Lou's Secret Sauce
 
AfroThunder396's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hamburg, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 20,648
vCash: 50
It's not a cap thing, it's a budget thing. The Devils have financial issues. Committing big money to one player means we have to compensate somehow.

As for Frazee, he's battled a lot of injuries the past few years and hasn't been able to really get comfortable. Now that he's healthy, it looks like he's finally starting to put it together. We'll see what happens with him, but being the most experienced pro G prospect we have is a point in his favor. He'll probably get the first shot at the job when Marty retires. My money is on Wedgewood though.

AfroThunder396 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2012, 02:43 PM
  #97
nmbr_24
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,587
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri the Fury View Post
Ok, nice projection when no one here knows what will be the next salary cap ceiling.

To make it short, Devils prefer keeping Larsson, period.
Prefering to keep Larsson is understandable, saying that Seguin's salary would cause any kind of a problem isn't easy for me to understand, he is worth his salary, if there is a salary roll back, his salary goes down as well. There are a whole bunch of reasons why that statement doesn't make any sense and the only one that does make sense is like I said, you prefer Larsson. Choosing Zajac and Clarkson over Seguin doesn't seem very logical especially since they are both going to want raises and each of them is probably going to be close to making what Seguin will be making.

nmbr_24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2012, 02:57 PM
  #98
Iceonfire
Registered User
 
Iceonfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,390
vCash: 500
Detroit could make a better offer.

Jurčo, Tatar for Larsson, Matteau

NJ has tons of defensive depth and very little prospected talent up front.

Detroit gets their franchise D.

Iceonfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2012, 03:07 PM
  #99
nmbr_24
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,587
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
Actually, Larsson doesn't get a raise until 2014-2015, and defenseman typically don't get such a substantial raise like forwards do. Seguin immediately eats up into that money for 2013-2014, money that we can put forth to Elias, Zajac, Clarkson, and Zubrus. Elias is more important to the Devils right now than Seguin is to the Bruins. Elias is the Devils offense.

Devils will have 38 million in cap space on the 70 million dollar cap, which is very likely to be lowered. They may not have the money or they may choose not to spend to the cap ceiling either. Seguin's not worth it for the resulting damage it will cause, especially if we send Larsson the other way as well.
What damage would it cause?

You would have one of the best young players in the league on a very good long term contract.

The only thing I see here is that a few Devils fans like their players and want to keep them over another player who really looks to be the best forward outside of Kovalchuk on either team.

I am not arguing what player you should want, all I am saying is that Seguin and his contract which is a good deal would not be a problem. If the team needed to get rid of someone else, then that is what the do.

By the way, D-men who are all stars usually make more money than forwards who are their equal, not the other way around. If Larsson turns out to be Seguin's equal, I think you can count on him making as much or more than Seguin.

If the Devils couldn't afford Seguin, then they couldn't afford Parise either even at less that the team was paying him last year. That doesn't make a ton of sense to me because they did afford Parise and Seguin makes less than he did.

I am pretty sure it would take significantly more than Larsson to get Seguin even if the Devils wanted to so it is all a moot point anyway.

I have said since the beginning of this thread that I don't think the Devils would consider moving Larsson, I also don't think the Bruins would consider moving Seguin.

If you would rather keep Larsson than get Seguin, that is understandable if you just value him more, saying that it won't work under the cap is the only problem I have with it because for a player like Seguin they would make it work.

nmbr_24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2012, 03:17 PM
  #100
Rhodes 81
Moderator
grit those teeth
 
Rhodes 81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Atlanta
Country: United States
Posts: 12,178
vCash: 500
nj has a deep defensive pool because they have larsson. he's what makes it look so good, without him, we just have merrill and a handful of guys that will likely be 3rd pairing or 2nd if we're lucky. larsson is simply too valuable to us to give up.

not to mention we don't want goalie prospects, contrary to popular belief.

Rhodes 81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:03 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.