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The 2012-2013 NHL Lockout Discussion Thread

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Old
11-10-2012, 04:12 PM
  #276
Jamieh
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The players already have the risk of not getting total salary every year as players percentage could decrease because of revenue. I don't understand why all players are fighting to guarantee contracts of very few that have long term deals. If those deals are to be paid in full it obviously leaves less money for majority of players next contract. And even less if players shares decreases. Nhlpa is protecting it's richest players at the expense of their weakest members.

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11-10-2012, 04:28 PM
  #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamieh View Post
The players already have the risk of not getting total salary every year as players percentage could decrease because of revenue. I don't understand why all players are fighting to guarantee contracts of very few that have long term deals. If those deals are to be paid in full it obviously leaves less money for majority of players next contract. And even less if players shares decreases. Nhlpa is protecting it's richest players at the expense of their weakest members.
Looking at this more I was starting to wonder if Fehr in this mess is really more concerned about getting the superstars their money than anything else. Maybe there is a divide in the union we are not aware of as a result?

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11-10-2012, 06:19 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Jamieh View Post
I don't understand why all players are fighting to guarantee contracts of very few that have long term deals.
Did you understand what the players were thinking the last lockout? There is no understanding what the players are thinking....they aren't thinking....if.they were they'd be playing hockey.

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11-11-2012, 11:58 AM
  #279
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Hey all, I'm hoping someone will be able to help Mr understand what are apparently some of the finer points of this lock out.

We've all heard a multitude of players say things along the lines of, "We understand it is going to be give and take. We understand we are going to have to give, and give a lot."

So many have said, "we understand that this is headed to fifty, fifty. That's the industry trend and we get that. We just feel the owner's need to honor the contracts they signed"

We've heard Don Fehr claim that the NHL's projected 5% growth is ridiculous and that the NHLPA has to assume at least 8%.

Then I see this:


12/13*13/1414/1515/1616/17
NHLPA offer 5M 5M 5M 5M 5M
NHL offer with 7 % growth 4.69M 5.32M 5M 5M 5M
NHL offer with 5 % growth 4.6M 5.24M 5.17M 5M 5M
NHL offer with 3 % growth 4.51M 5.05M 4.95M 4.93M 5M
NHL offer with 1 % growth 4.43M 4.88M 4.68M 4.56M 4.6M
NHL offer with 0 % growth 4.38M 4.79M 4.55M 4.38M 4.38M

So what exactly are these guys talking about? Seriously, what the ****? Are they that concerned about contract length limitations, and measures against cap circumventing? Do they honestly give a rat's ass about ELCs?

Why aren't they in training camp?

I'm obviously missing a huge piece of this equation.

Hasn't the NHL given the players EXACTLY what they've asked for? Existing contracts honored, and a soft landing to 50/50. What the Hell, man?

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Old
11-13-2012, 01:38 PM
  #280
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^ I should also defend the NHLPA a little bit, as I can't really understand why the NHL is so obsessed with contracting rights. Get your 5% variance rule, and be done with it. Everything else is fine, as is, in contracting rights. Some apparently mutually beneficial changes could be tossed in, but why fight tooth and nail for other DETAILS?

Go with:

HRR Split: Immediate 50/50 HRR split with “Make Whole” as presented in current NHL offer.

(Illustrated in table below which demonstrates the impact of make whole on a player with a five year, twenty five million dollar deal, without any bonus money and no year to year variance in compensation)

12/13*13/1414/1515/1616/17
NHLPA offer 5M 5M 5M 5M 5M
NHL offer with 7 % growth 4.69M 5.32M 5M 5M 5M
NHL offer with 5 % growth 4.6M 5.24M 5.17M 5M 5M
NHL offer with 3 % growth 4.51M 5.05M 4.95M 4.93M 5M
NHL offer with 1 % growth 4.43M 4.88M 4.68M 4.56M 4.6M
NHL offer with 0 % growth 4.38M 4.79M 4.55M 4.38M 4.38M

Revenue Sharing: Increase Revenue Sharing from reported 150m to 210m (half way to NHLPA’s demand of 260m, and only 10m more than NHL’s current offer of 200m)

Contracting Rights: No greater variance than 5% in year to year compensation on future contracts, all one-way contracts count against the cap (No term limits, no changes in ELC term, UFA age/experience minimums, NTCs, NMCs, or salary arbitration) **I’d also look at allowing teams to retain certain percentages of contracts/cap-hits for a certain number of years in instances of player trades

....... And everybody gets something approaching what they wanted on what they would consider the most important aspects.

Be done with this crap.

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11-17-2012, 11:43 AM
  #281
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http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...HL_talks_.html

Possible big divide among the owners?

Quote:
Behind the scenes, there seems to be a seismic shift going on among the NHL's Board of Governors, also known as the group that Bettman answers to collectively.

And Flyers chairman Ed Snider may be the big mover-and-shaker behind it all.

Multiple sources confirmed to the Daily News on Friday that Snider, once seen as a supporter of the Bettman's push to rein in the players' share of revenue, has soured on the process after it became apparent that a deal would not be brokered in time for a Dec. 1 puck drop.

Put simply: Snider and the rest of the NHL's owners were promised a big win by Bettman, with player concessions on revenue division and contracting rights. The best they'll get now is a small win in revenue split - coupled with a demoralized fan base and all-important corporate sponsors that are ready to quit.

A source familiar with Snider's thinking characterized it as: "If this is the deal we are going to get, what's the point of dragging this out?"

Neither Snider nor team president Peter Luukko has publicly addressed the lockout since it began on Sept. 16, for fear of a $1 million fine from Bettman.

Snider, 79, is the NHL's longest-serving governor and serves on the board's executive committee, which helps steer policy. A backroom wheeler-dealer, Snider can make his moves in a practical way via the board's numbers. When it comes to labor negotiations, league rules require a a vote of 75 percent of governors to oppose the commissioner's recommendation. That means Bettman has absolute power, so long as he has eight out of 30 owners to block any hostile movement against him. Bettman actually needs only seven owners to support him, since the league owns the Phoenix franchise.
...

On Friday, multiple sources indicated Snider's "strong discontent" for Bruins owner Jeremy Jacobs, a big-market owner who has been one of the lockout's ringleaders. Despite their on-ice rivalry, there seems to be some thinking that the Flyers are interested in teaming up with the midmarket but high-revenue Pittsburgh Penguins to sway more governors toward a swift resolution. The Rangers are also viewed as anti-lockout.

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11-20-2012, 12:56 AM
  #282
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http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index....-+MLive.com%29

Quote:
The NHL, during Monday's resumption of labor talks, urged the NHL Players Association to submit a formal proposal for a new collective bargaining agreement.
...
The sides will meet again, likely on Wednesday, when reports indicate the NHLPA will make a series of “give and take'' proposals to the league, as urgency to get a deal done in time to salvage the season is mounting.
Just another hope for the best and prepare for the worst kind of news. We are about 10 days away from December and along with that comes the high possibility of all of the games in that month to be canceled which then will move the league 1 step closer to canceling the entire season for the 2nd time in history, if that happens of course.

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11-20-2012, 08:40 AM
  #283
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I do expect the NHLPA to actually submit their first formal proposal in eight years. Hell, I expect them to submit three. However, I expect all three to be completely absurd. Two will offer delinked salaries, and the other will be almost exactly the same as the previous CBA. They won't be scrawled across paper napkins in pen ink with an excuse of "we didn't bother to run the numbers" like the last three they offered. They'll LOOK like legitimate proposals but they will not budge one single inch from where they players have maintained their absurd little position all along.

I think Fehr wants to lose this season. I think he wants to go full nuclear and pull out every insane stop. I believe he'd rather see the NHL collapse than agree to any CBA with a hard cap. I'm convinced the only reason he bothered to come out of retirement to bargain with a true hard cap league was to destroy the league or to destroy the cap. He doesn't care about hockey, hockey players, or the NHL. He cares about proving a philosophical point. Nothing more.

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11-20-2012, 12:36 PM
  #284
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Fehr dispays a bad attitude toward the NHL in all his interviews. RT is right, it seems all personal with him. He presents the same crap over and over expecting a different answer.
The players are not business people and don't know how good they have it. People with businesses and those of us that work real jobs understand how absurd this all is.
Fehr has hoodwinked the players into believing they are entitled to what they are getting and should expect more, not less, with no regard for the return on investment of the team owners and the success of the NHL.

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11-20-2012, 12:57 PM
  #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knowsthegame View Post
Fehr dispays a bad attitude toward the NHL in all his interviews. RT is right, it seems all personal with him. He presents the same crap over and over expecting a different answer.
The players are not business people and don't know how good they have it. People with businesses and those of us that work real jobs understand how absurd this all is.
Fehr has hoodwinked the players into believing they are entitled to what they are getting and should expect more, not less, with no regard for the return on investment of the team owners and the success of the NHL.
Yet in the business of the NHL, there is a cap system in place, while the cap has helped to make the teams more competative, the cap hasn't improved the bottom line overall of those teams that are still losing money. In addition, the same "business people" who have and will in the future will look for ways to circumvent the system and the CBA to their own benefit expect those below them to abide by the rules.

As far as I'm concerned, both sides can go **** themselves and it would be foolish for anyone to take sides in all of this.


Last edited by Colt45Blast: 11-20-2012 at 01:08 PM.
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11-20-2012, 03:49 PM
  #286
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As far as I'm concerned, both sides can go **** themselves and it would be foolish for anyone to take sides in all of this.
I'm taking sides, MY SIDE! Both parties are at fault. At this point I'm regulated to paying to watch the AHL and any Junior League games they have on the NHL network.

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Old
11-20-2012, 07:19 PM
  #287
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Any one else get the sorry for the lockout but here is a free sticker from the Coyotes?

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11-20-2012, 07:25 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by naurutger View Post
Any one else get the sorry for the lockout but here is a free sticker from the Coyotes?
I did. It's a really nice, shiny, fancy sticker. But it doesn't make up for the games that I'm not watching.

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11-20-2012, 08:44 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by naurutger View Post
Any one else get the sorry for the lockout but here is a free sticker from the Coyotes?
What! I haven't got one yet. How big are they?

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11-20-2012, 08:59 PM
  #290
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What! I haven't got one yet. How big are they?
If you had season tickets last year you might have gotten like 6 of them but just your typical 3 inch car ones you see driving around.

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11-20-2012, 09:03 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by naurutger View Post
If you had season tickets last year you might have gotten like 6 of them but just your typical 3 inch car ones you see driving around.
Oh I gotcha,this is my first year with season tickets, but I already got a few car stickers last season at the arena

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11-20-2012, 10:20 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by naurutger View Post
Any one else get the sorry for the lockout but here is a free sticker from the Coyotes?
If the league wants to really make it up the season ticket base, then they should give everyone for 1 game a choice to sit in the skybox, Toyota Club, or Gila River Club section. Included in that deal is 1 free autographed authentic jersey signed by the player of the ticket holders choice and free food and drinks of any kind.

I know that it sounds like I'm smoking some really good **** here but hey, alot more people would be happy with this vs some sticker.

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11-20-2012, 11:31 PM
  #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knowsthegame View Post
Fehr dispays a bad attitude toward the NHL in all his interviews. RT is right, it seems all personal with him. He presents the same crap over and over expecting a different answer.
The players are not business people and don't know how good they have it. People with businesses and those of us that work real jobs understand how absurd this all is.
Fehr has hoodwinked the players into believing they are entitled to what they are getting and should expect more, not less, with no regard for the return on investment of the team owners and the success of the NHL.
Well said..

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11-21-2012, 12:52 AM
  #294
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Well said..
I agree, the only thing they've offered me so far as a comp, was to give me 5 percent interest on the money I've already spent on tickets that i can spend only spend at the arena.

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11-21-2012, 12:41 PM
  #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AP View Post
If the league wants to really make it up the season ticket base, then they should give everyone for 1 game a choice to sit in the skybox, Toyota Club, or Gila River Club section. Included in that deal is 1 free autographed authentic jersey signed by the player of the ticket holders choice and free food and drinks of any kind.

I know that it sounds like I'm smoking some really good **** here but hey, alot more people would be happy with this vs some sticker.
Can we get Fehr to negotiate this for us?

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11-21-2012, 12:54 PM
  #296
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Everyone is so excited about this NHLPA proposal and I can't quite get so over the moon about it, myself. It APPEARS that the NHLPA is now at least structuring their proposals (this is really their first proposal) in a similar way to the NHL.

HOWEVER, all I am seeing in this NHLPA proposal is that they want every single dollar paid on any existing contracts previous to the last CBA expiring, but that they are willing to go "50/50" otherwise. Whelp, it is IMPOSSIBLE to get there, because the NHLPA is only proposing a five year CBA. They want all other contracting issues to remain essentially unchanged. So basically, NEW contracts will go into this "50/50" (a term that is now utterly meaningless for the rest of eternity).

Is this not almost exactly the same as the players offering to simply renew the last CBA? We won't be anywhere near approaching 50/50 until maybe year three or four, right? It's a five year proposal. Essentially the players are saying, "Yeah sure, we'll definitely go to 50/50....in the NEXT CBA".

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11-21-2012, 12:56 PM
  #297
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Originally Posted by Devils Advocate View Post
Can we get Fehr to negotiate this for us?
So he can say, "Each fan requires a new Cadillac'', and then walk off for six months without saying a word, only to comeback and ask "Have we got those Cadillacs yet?".

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11-21-2012, 01:10 PM
  #298
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I do expect the NHLPA to actually submit their first formal proposal in eight years. Hell, I expect them to submit three. However, I expect all three to be completely absurd. Two will offer delinked salaries, and the other will be almost exactly the same as the previous CBA. They won't be scrawled across paper napkins in pen ink with an excuse of "we didn't bother to run the numbers" like the last three they offered. They'll LOOK like legitimate proposals but they will not budge one single inch from where they players have maintained their absurd little position all along.

I think Fehr wants to lose this season. I think he wants to go full nuclear and pull out every insane stop. I believe he'd rather see the NHL collapse than agree to any CBA with a hard cap. I'm convinced the only reason he bothered to come out of retirement to bargain with a true hard cap league was to destroy the league or to destroy the cap. He doesn't care about hockey, hockey players, or the NHL. He cares about proving a philosophical point. Nothing more.
It appears that I was close to being correct here...

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11-21-2012, 08:01 PM
  #299
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It appears that I was close to being correct here...
So when do I get my Cadillac? 2 weeks? 50/50 chance it arrives in 2 weeks?

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11-21-2012, 08:11 PM
  #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
Everyone is so excited about this NHLPA proposal and I can't quite get so over the moon about it, myself. It APPEARS that the NHLPA is now at least structuring their proposals (this is really their first proposal) in a similar way to the NHL.
Quote:
New York Rangers forward Brad Richards added, "It is a move in their direction again and based off of their proposal. There has to be an effort from them to get this done now."
Kind of an insulting quote, as if the NHL hasn't been trying up until now. The KoolAid is flowing something fierce right now. They're totally buying into what Fehr is selling; the owners won big last time (not true) so let's go after them hard. I imagine that the season will be lost and the players will mutiny against Fehr sometime in the spring.

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