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So who is bummed about the lockout? II

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11-21-2012, 02:03 PM
  #626
bozak911
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Revenue Sharing about the same between the two sides.
On ice discipline is the same (and what I proposed! yay!)
I think the elimination of NHLPA side letter escrow responsibility is a nuance to escrow as it continues to exist in the current state. (sorta)
No clue on the no-trade/no-move clauses.
Re-entry, same.
NHL proposed the players/cash/cap trading. PA agrees now.
Wade Redden rule. Awesome how the PA put that. Not sure the NHL will agree.
Chris Campoli rule. NHL will concede this point.
NHLPA Cap-recapture... I think this was actually part of the NHLs last proposal. Not sure.
I like the + / - 20% better.
As for the make whole... Good on them for asking more. The NHL will negotiate on those numbers.

Outside of the first year of lock out impacted revenues, I don't think the players share less than previous year is a big deal.

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11-21-2012, 02:13 PM
  #627
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I would say this was a very well done proposal and something that should have been proposed a hell of a lot earlier than Nov 21. Whatever the case, the PA HAD to put out a serious proposal, was long overdue, and they finally made good. This is what I thought they were going to do a month ago when the NHL gave that proposal and the PA came back with the three repackaged guaranteed proposals.

Very curious to see the NHL response. Hopefully they take some time to soak it in and get back in the room to negotiate.

Now does this change the tone of the negotiations? I hope so.

Also, does this mean there was a lot more substance than previously assumed on the last round of negotiations? I think so.

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11-21-2012, 02:19 PM
  #628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bozak911 View Post
Revenue Sharing about the same between the two sides.
On ice discipline is the same (and what I proposed! yay!)
I think the elimination of NHLPA side letter escrow responsibility is a nuance to escrow as it continues to exist in the current state. (sorta)
No clue on the no-trade/no-move clauses.
Re-entry, same.
NHL proposed the players/cash/cap trading. PA agrees now.
Wade Redden rule. Awesome how the PA put that. Not sure the NHL will agree.
Chris Campoli rule. NHL will concede this point.
NHLPA Cap-recapture... I think this was actually part of the NHLs last proposal. Not sure.
I like the + / - 20% better.
As for the make whole... Good on them for asking more. The NHL will negotiate on those numbers.

Outside of the first year of lock out impacted revenues, I don't think the players share less than previous year is a big deal.

The NHL are the ones who initially proposed the Wade Redden rule. In fact they proposed a more strict one where salries over 550k in the AHL counted agaisnt the cap.

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11-21-2012, 02:20 PM
  #629
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Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
The NHL are the ones who initially proposed the Wade Redden rule. In fact they proposed a more strict one where salries over 550k in the AHL counted agaisnt the cap.
but it was also included in the player's share if im not mistaken.

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11-21-2012, 02:23 PM
  #630
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Originally Posted by Casper View Post
but it was also included in the player's share if im not mistaken.
You're mistaken:

Quote:
We are proposing that the salaries of minor league Players on NHL contracts (above a threshold of $105,000) be counted against a Club’s Cap. This provision is intended to prevent Clubs from “stashing” or assigning players to the minors (or any other professional league) for “Cap management” purposes. We are not proposing that any salary paid to minor league Players on NHL contracts be counted against the Players’ Share.
http://snyrangersblog.com/former-ran...t-the-rangers/

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11-21-2012, 02:25 PM
  #631
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i stand corrected

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11-21-2012, 02:29 PM
  #632
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Facts and figures and everything. I liked that part, it's refreshing. I'm not really capable of evaluating the proposal itself. I'm not smart enough for that. Only, there are still at least some remains of de-linkage.

But that seems like seriously written proposal. It's really something. Let's see how the story continues.

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11-21-2012, 02:45 PM
  #633
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Don't know what that escrow liability is off the tip of my head.

Don't like straight percent range as it weakens parity effects. Prefer fixed rate or hybrid fixed plus percent type.

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11-21-2012, 02:56 PM
  #634
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i think my earlier suspicion was correct--they had this proposal already drawn up earlier and just tweaked it to fit the latest NHL proposal. Should have been done earlier, but that's Fehr and his frustration tactics.

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11-21-2012, 03:05 PM
  #635
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Expanded cap cheating protection

Quote:
What the players offered was a rule that would require teams to take any "cap benefit" gained and charge it against their own cap. (There is also an option for clubs to spread it over twice the number of remaining seasons in the offending contract. So, if the player retires with two years left, the proposal allows the team to apply the penalty over four.)

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11-21-2012, 03:07 PM
  #636
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How I see it... Now they're at least speaking the same language. Maybe a different dialect, but they can talk if they want.

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11-21-2012, 03:15 PM
  #637
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Aaron Ward
Quote:
Source,major move by NHLPA not well received by NHL.Player conference call later this evening and likely not positive. #TSN
Brian Lawton
Quote:
I have a hard time finding a lot of optimism in this offer. It contains a lot of digs Still don't see both sides doing best to make a deal!

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11-21-2012, 03:15 PM
  #638
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Yep. Optimism crushed.

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11-21-2012, 03:18 PM
  #639
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Meh, it's a negotiation. Did anyone really think the NHL would say "yeah, that's close enough, where do we sign?"

In other predictable news, the main board kids still hate the PA and all of them are ready to jump off a cliff.

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11-21-2012, 03:18 PM
  #640
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Wtf!

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11-21-2012, 03:18 PM
  #641
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What a load of ********.

Seriously. We just want NHL hockey. Is that too much to ask? Football fans get NFL, basketball fans get NBA and baseball fans get MLB. Why can't we, hockey fans, get NHL?

**** this ****.

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:22 PM
  #642
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Meh, it's a negotiation. Did anyone really think the NHL would say "yeah, that's close enough, where do we sign?"

In other predictable news, the main board kids still hate the PA and all of them are ready to jump off a cliff.
True enough.

I started to actually think about the portion of the PA proposal that still de-links at lunch. I don't think it dawned on me before I took off (late) for lunch), but guaranteeing that the player share is never lower than the previous season is still...

De-linkage.

Showstopper right there.

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11-21-2012, 03:24 PM
  #643
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The league absolutely needs to negotiate off this. The players are still demanding a lot, but the league needs to give a little.

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11-21-2012, 03:26 PM
  #644
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Call it whatever you want. I call it progress.

I know some people won't be happy until the PA agrees to everything the NHL proposes in whichever proposal they decide to offer at the moment, but this was a HUGE move towards resolution.

The only problem with this entire process is that it has to be played out in public and everyone must give their two cents immediately otherwise they are deemed irrelevant. So the media folks (who are NOT hired for their legal sense) are always upset at the process and the fans are always jumping off cliffs.

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11-21-2012, 03:29 PM
  #645
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
The league absolutely needs to negotiate off this. The players are still demanding a lot, but the league needs to give a little.
I think that right there says it all

I fully expect the league to make the players sweat it out some and then come back probably next week. They will give them a taste of what it feels like to play stalling tactics.

Unfortunately there's not a ton of time left here so they can't do it for weeks and weeks on end but will have to come back to the table in a few days.

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11-21-2012, 03:31 PM
  #646
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yes significant progress was made today but the tactics here are so hard to swallow. Its not really time for the league to go pissing off all of the players. All that does is entice them to dig in.

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11-21-2012, 03:34 PM
  #647
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The league absolutely needs to negotiate off this. The players are still demanding a lot, but the league needs to give a little.
Secondend.

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11-21-2012, 03:53 PM
  #648
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Finally out of that car.

The league won't like the guarantees the PA is asking for, but it's not as a big a gap as it seems. With the possible change to the cap formula, revenues would have to fall a fair bit to invoke that minimum cap (just an estimate off the top of my head). The player share having a floor in years 4 and 5 is a non-issue. Years 2 and 3 (especially 2) could be problematic. But with the right starting point and maybe a little give (maximum reduction instead of guaranteed no reduction) could make it palatable.

I'm a lot more optimistic than the media heads.

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11-21-2012, 03:58 PM
  #649
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Quote:
Bettman: "We're still far apart. But hopefully there's some momentum so we can bring this to a conclusion."
I like that as well.


Re: the cap percentage rather than +/- $8M, $8M/39m = 20.5%. So this is actually closer to the original intent than a flat dollar amount. IMO that is a good change.

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11-21-2012, 04:07 PM
  #650
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
I like that as well.


Re: the cap percentage rather than +/- $8M, $8M/39m = 20.5%. So this is actually closer to the original intent than a flat dollar amount. IMO that is a good change.
I don't like the flat percentage because what happens when the midpoint hits $100MM? The cap range will be $40MM at that point. Is a team with $80MM in salary really going to be competitive with a team at $120MM?

Is much rather see a hybrid range. $4MM + 10% of midpoint gets back to the same basic variance from 2005 while allowing growth, but curbing the rate of growth.

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