HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Buffalo Sabres
Notices

All CBA talk. A deal? A deal!!!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-19-2012, 04:06 AM
  #151
heartsabres*
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Budapest
Country: Hungary
Posts: 1,790
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Navy Goat View Post
Let me clarify, when I made the 'rocket scientist, under educated' remarks its simply because the vast majority of the NHL players have little to no higher education. They graduate from the CHL and move on to the AHL / NHL with nary a thought to university. Obviously you have some players that came through the NCAA and they'll have a few years of education or possibly a degree but compared to a league like the NFL where every locker room has quite a few guys with degrees and some with advanced ones, you're just not seeing it in the NHL.

They're trusting other people with similar educations to disperse advice and opinions from two snake oil charmers in the Fehr brothers. If I were a player, I'd would sure as hell request that my agent represented me at the meetings, especially since their bottom line is directly tied into my bottom line, and they're just a little more conversant in contract law than I am. Especially for the players signed with major representation, not only would I expect my team's player rep to be at every meeting but I would request an attorney from my agency to be there also.

Being a businessman with a modicum of education and life experience I'm quite aware of my limitations and call on outside resources to supplement any areas that I'm lacking in. For example with the current deal that I'm trying to finalize, I've had contracts looked over with a fine tooth comb by attorneys, I've had a market analysis done, a cost analysis accomplished through a 3rd party and a CPA to go through their books to ensure I'm getting what I think I'm getting (non-disclosure agreement or I would be more specific). Unlike with the NHL players, I don't have a finite career as a businessman...I can keep making money until the day I die (albeit I can't 'work' anymore) so the time I've spent on this deal if it doesn't come to fruition isn't a big thing as I can recoup the time/money spent with a different deal, however as a player I sure as hell can't recoup a year out of my playing career or the money lost.
Again, where do you get the information from? Have you taken a survey? To call people uneducated and then call yourself a businessman makes me think I should probably stop reading your posts, for the reason do you not think millionaires have agents, lawyers, family, financial advisors to help them make decisions? Do you not think there are stupid, uneducated businessmen? there are over 300 hockey players, I have no idea which ones have an education blah blah blah. I try to stick to the facts.

heartsabres* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 08:02 AM
  #152
DanielEtvs
stuck on stoopid
 
DanielEtvs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: denial
Country: United States
Posts: 75
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
I am just curious to wear you find the statistics on this? There is a big difference between, uneducated, street educated, dumb, idiot, ect.....

I read the posts on this forum and well it is sad to see because a player speaks out about Bettman that makes him stupid. Let´s put every quote you have put on these boards under a microscope and we will see how smart you turn out to be.

I am not defending anyone but lets look in the mirror before we start drawing conclusions....

With White he does not see the financial implications from the owners side with Bettman running things he only sees the Players side.

Just ask Hostess the twinkie maker´s employees how that works!

RIP TWINKIES!! lol @ the twinkie reference in this silly youtube vid,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=To8e24stUEc

DanielEtvs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-19-2012, 10:09 AM
  #153
Old Navy Goat
Registered User
 
Old Navy Goat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: San Antonio
Country: United States
Posts: 5,929
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
Again, where do you get the information from? Have you taken a survey? To call people uneducated and then call yourself a businessman makes me think I should probably stop reading your posts, for the reason do you not think millionaires have agents, lawyers, family, financial advisors to help them make decisions? Do you not think there are stupid, uneducated businessmen? there are over 300 hockey players, I have no idea which ones have an education blah blah blah. I try to stick to the facts.
Berkeley College's survey only included the big 3, of which football has approximately 50% with college education, basketball 25% and baseball under 10%. Mere speculation on my part would seem that hockey would fall between basketball and baseball with leanings more towards baseball.

From an study conducted by the University of Texas at Austin:

Gurney, who is president of the National Association of Academic Advisors for Athletics, rightly describes the NCAA's two measures of how well college athletes are doing in the classroom—the Academic Progress Rate and the Graduation Success Rate—as "manufactured."

The Academic Progress Rate, or APR, is designed so that students can be fully compliant even if they complete only 80 percent of the courses needed for a degree after four years. Moreover, year-to-year eligibility requirements are lax to the point of being farcical. Consider U.S. Secretary of Education Arne Duncan's complaint about the poor academic performances, especially in regard to athletes who belong to minority groups, by many teams in the NCAA March Madness basketball tournament. If the players are performing so poorly academically, how can they be eligible for the tournaments? As Duncan wrote last month in an opinion piece for The Washington Post, "Last year, out of more than 6,000 NCAA intercollegiate sports teams, one squad in men's basketball was banned from postseason play because of a poor academic record."


From Foxsports, baseball not hockey but the draft rules are the same for the 2 sports:

According to FoxSports.com , only 34 out of 917 players that have been on an MLB field this season have earned a college degree. That means that 96.3% of all MLB players now employed have not earned the honor.

This could be attributed to the fact that while the NBA asks for one year of college and the NFL asks for two years of college, the MLB has a different policy entirely. In the MLB, a player can declare for the MLB draft after graduating from high school, after any season of junior college, after their junior or senior seasons at a four-year college, or after any season during which they are at least 21 years old. These lenient rules allow young baseball players to seek professional success at a younger age.


Along the same vein from USA Today:

Boring is good
Low financial literacy makes many athletes susceptible to getting scammed or suffering losses in high-risk investments. Young adults in general aren't experienced with money and often don't have good role models as savers, homeowners or investors.
Low financial literacy shows up in a poor understanding of how investments work, what constitutes realistic returns and reasonable fees, and how advisers are supposed to interact with clients. Athletes often delegate too much and oversee too little. Some entrust others not just to make the big financial moves but to pay routine bills.


As for uneducated businessmen; I've met plenty. One of my neighbors and friends owns a multi-million dollar business and he has a whopping 11th grade education. He turned a small family business into a cash cow with huge contracts with government and local builders, however he lived and breathed his business until it was successful. That was his entire life until he built it up enough to be able to sit back. Your hockey player's entire life revolves around hockey, fitness, diet etc; which doesn't leave much room for the business part of hockey.

The owner of my lawn maintenance company is another, he started with a couple mowers and now has his own nursery, and a fleet of trucks running around the city servicing residential and commercial property. He hires educated people such as his landscape engineers / designers, crew managers and CPAs to handle his business; hell his nephew's crew takes care of the lawns in my subdivision and he has a degree in horticulture from Texas A&M.

Old Navy Goat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2012, 08:04 AM
  #154
heartsabres*
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Budapest
Country: Hungary
Posts: 1,790
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Navy Goat View Post
Berkeley College's survey only included the big 3, of which football has approximately 50% with college education, basketball 25% and baseball under 10%. Mere speculation on my part would seem that hockey would fall between basketball and baseball with leanings more towards baseball.

From an study conducted by the University of Texas at Austin:

Gurney, who is president of the National Association of Academic Advisors for Athletics, rightly describes the NCAA's two measures of how well college athletes are doing in the classroom—the Academic Progress Rate and the Graduation Success Rate—as "manufactured."

The Academic Progress Rate, or APR, is designed so that students can be fully compliant even if they complete only 80 percent of the courses needed for a degree after four years. Moreover, year-to-year eligibility requirements are lax to the point of being farcical. Consider U.S. Secretary of Education Arne Duncan's complaint about the poor academic performances, especially in regard to athletes who belong to minority groups, by many teams in the NCAA March Madness basketball tournament. If the players are performing so poorly academically, how can they be eligible for the tournaments? As Duncan wrote last month in an opinion piece for The Washington Post, "Last year, out of more than 6,000 NCAA intercollegiate sports teams, one squad in men's basketball was banned from postseason play because of a poor academic record."


From Foxsports, baseball not hockey but the draft rules are the same for the 2 sports:

According to FoxSports.com , only 34 out of 917 players that have been on an MLB field this season have earned a college degree. That means that 96.3% of all MLB players now employed have not earned the honor.

This could be attributed to the fact that while the NBA asks for one year of college and the NFL asks for two years of college, the MLB has a different policy entirely. In the MLB, a player can declare for the MLB draft after graduating from high school, after any season of junior college, after their junior or senior seasons at a four-year college, or after any season during which they are at least 21 years old. These lenient rules allow young baseball players to seek professional success at a younger age.


Along the same vein from USA Today:

Boring is good
Low financial literacy makes many athletes susceptible to getting scammed or suffering losses in high-risk investments. Young adults in general aren't experienced with money and often don't have good role models as savers, homeowners or investors.
Low financial literacy shows up in a poor understanding of how investments work, what constitutes realistic returns and reasonable fees, and how advisers are supposed to interact with clients. Athletes often delegate too much and oversee too little. Some entrust others not just to make the big financial moves but to pay routine bills.


As for uneducated businessmen; I've met plenty. One of my neighbors and friends owns a multi-million dollar business and he has a whopping 11th grade education. He turned a small family business into a cash cow with huge contracts with government and local builders, however he lived and breathed his business until it was successful. That was his entire life until he built it up enough to be able to sit back. Your hockey player's entire life revolves around hockey, fitness, diet etc; which doesn't leave much room for the business part of hockey.

The owner of my lawn maintenance company is another, he started with a couple mowers and now has his own nursery, and a fleet of trucks running around the city servicing residential and commercial property. He hires educated people such as his landscape engineers / designers, crew managers and CPAs to handle his business; hell his nephew's crew takes care of the lawns in my subdivision and he has a degree in horticulture from Texas A&M.
So if I come up with some stats that say polo players, tennis players, equestrian and golfers most have college education does that counter your arguement???

Please compare the NHL to the NHL. It makes sense.

heartsabres* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2012, 09:48 AM
  #155
Old Navy Goat
Registered User
 
Old Navy Goat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: San Antonio
Country: United States
Posts: 5,929
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
So if I come up with some stats that say polo players, tennis players, equestrian and golfers most have college education does that counter your arguement???

Please compare the NHL to the NHL. It makes sense.
In that case shall we continue:

From Dan Blysma:

Question #20:
I'm under the impression that professional hockey has more of an educational background than other sports. Do you know know the percentage of players in the NHL that have college degrees? B.W. CT.

Dan Replies:
Dear B.T. - I'm pleased that you think the players in the NHL have more of an educational background than other professional sports, but it is my opinion that it only appears that way. I believe the nationality percentages in the NHL this season are 56% Canadian, 19% USA born and 25%European. It would be my guess that only about 20% of the Canadian players came through college (but this percentage is growing), about 90% of the USA born players and almost none of the European players. So considerably less than half of the NHL is college educated compared to nearly all of the NFL and NBA. This is because the farm systems for the NBA and NFL is almost exclusively college sports. The NHL's farm system is more than 50% Canadian Jr. A and European hockey.

What you perceive, I believe, is not an educational bias but a cultural one. Almost all hockey players come from middle class or upper middle class families and reflect typical middle class family/moral values and work ethics. So you don't read as much about personal wreckage among hockey players as in some of the other professional sports. Hockey is not without its sinners, but there is not one illegitimate child for each player (numerically) as there is reported to be in the NBA, for example (Sports Illustrated), and I doubt if it's even one per team.

Some of the reason for this may be the amount of serious parental involvement in terms of money and time required in youth hockey. It's not something you can do with ten or fifteen guys and one $20 ball on a playground or a vacant lot. I believe that more parental involvement (oversight?) leads to a more responsible participant. And that responsibility follows the player to the professional level. Almost without exception, the guys I've come to know in five seasons in the NHL are regular family-orientated guys who are exceptional athletes who can "lace 'em up".

NHL players do not have more education, they just act like it.


A study from the NCAA but you'll have to extrapolate the information which might be beyond you since it doesn't delineate the statistics from the 'elite' players like Vanek that leave college early or if the degree completion is after their careers are over:

College hockey is played at some of the finest institutions in the world, and the NCAA model allows student-athletes to progress toward their degree while pursuing their hockey dreams at the same time.

While the CHL's education program has made strides in recent years, it comes with restrictions that families need to consider. Expenses covered can be limited and packages can be eliminated if players sign certain pro contracts or fail to begin pursuit of their education in a certain timeframe.

A recent NCAA study showed that 88% of men's hockey players earn their degree. Published reports have shown that fewer than 20% of major junior players go on to earn their degrees.


From Bleacher Report:

The traditional road to the NHL does not often include a college degree and in many cases, no college at all. That doesn't make hockey players less intelligent, but from the standpoint of how conventional intelligence is measured, some of the sharpest players on the ice might not excel in the classroom.

From John Russo:

The NCAA is trying to make the point that education and hockey development do go together; and that the CHL does not provide well for players’ educations, or even for their proper social and life-long development. A look at the facts and statistics bears this out. First a look at (college produced) statistics.

Comparisons (on an average team)
NCAA CHL
Number of Roster Players 28 25
Number making NHL .5 1
Graduate from College 23.5 4
Do not graduate College 4 20


I'm now done with trying to pull up stats as its obvious the NHL doesn't care, especially since the numbers are 'most likely' abysmal and it wouldn't help their PR campaign with some of their eloquent arguments about Daly's and Bettman's competence. Additionally, the major news outlets in the States don't really give a damn about the NHL so aren't prolific in those types of stats and even less so with the Canadian press since its most likely too damning and would put the lie to their CHL education packages.

Old Navy Goat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2012, 03:51 PM
  #156
brian_griffin
Measured Intangibles
 
brian_griffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Z4QQQ batman symbol
Country: Vatican City State
Posts: 6,458
vCash: 500
IMO, I do not equate a pro athlete holding a college degree as synonymous with being educated.

Also, nice blurbs posted by ONG.

brian_griffin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2012, 06:01 PM
  #157
Freezerburn
Registered User
 
Freezerburn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Beamsville, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,080
vCash: 500
Which NFL/NBA players got into college based on their academic merit vs. their athletic? I'm not really impressed by any statistic regarding NFL/NBA players attending college let alone a statement about some of them holding 'advanced' degrees.

Freezerburn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2012, 08:07 PM
  #158
ZZamboni
Puttin' on the Foil
 
ZZamboni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Buffalo, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 10,104
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freezerburn View Post
Which NFL/NBA players got into college based on their academic merit vs. their athletic? I'm not really impressed by any statistic regarding NFL/NBA players attending college let alone a statement about some of them holding 'advanced' degrees.
Furthermore, i imagine there are still a healthy number of collleges/universities that "look the other way" when a top athlete in Football, Basketball, Baseball or Hockey doesn't do so well academically, and could be what is responsible for poor education about the real world once they get their degree. The professors and deans think they are doing them a service or favor when really it's the opposite.

Just a thought



nice research there ONG



Is there another side to this or just spin?

ZZamboni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-20-2012, 10:49 PM
  #159
Woodhouse
Global Moderator
 
Woodhouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 7,294
vCash: 500
Well, Ivy Leaguers and walk-ons aren't normally recruited and are admitted on their academics. There aren't many of these players in the major leagues and those that do make it are unheralded, underdog types; though the NHL might be able to claim that they have the most Ivy Leaguers in their ranks. There's probably enough to fill at least one lineup and off the top of my head that'd include Moore, Leblanc, Parros, Higgins, Murray, Greening, O'Byrne, Moulson, Bitz, Stempniak, Glass, Galiardi, etc.

I also remember from an interview that our pugilist Scott has a degree in engineering. That would make the contracted Sabres with four years of college: Scott, Leopold, Finley and Porter. Miller, Stafford and Tropp each have three years and may have received degrees; Vanek is less likely with only two years of college.

As ONG pointed out though, the majority of NCAA hockey players do graduate, just not the earlier round draft picks as they often elect to jump into pro hockey earlier than later; and conversely, each year a handful of undrafted free agents are signed, provide depth and do have degrees. There's no disputing that the CHL guys have less formal education than these guys, but it also doesn't mean they're all dumb and clueless as Canada's education index is still ranked ahead of the USA, right?

Woodhouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2012, 03:19 AM
  #160
heartsabres*
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Budapest
Country: Hungary
Posts: 1,790
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian_griffin View Post
IMO, I do not equate a pro athlete holding a college degree as synonymous with being educated.

Also, nice blurbs posted by ONG.
My point exactly. Not to mention most eastern european hockey players also do mandatory military service which I believe also helps become educated. The NFL is 95% Americans....

Anyways college education does not mean you are educated nor does it mean you have the ability to handle your finances properly. Not to mention they have agents, family and lawyers helping them along the way.

Googling some stats and posting doesn´t prove if a man is educated.

heartsabres* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2012, 06:33 AM
  #161
WhoIsJimBob
Circle the Bandwagon
 
WhoIsJimBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 15,532
vCash: 500


NSFW

Quote:
Beerleaguers Against Hockey Lockouts (BAHLS) issue a public appeal to the owners and players of the NHL to end the lockout.

WhoIsJimBob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2012, 10:47 AM
  #162
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 32,344
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
Yes, I have.

You win Josh. I had a brain fart on the Kelly thing, will freely admit.

I'm sick and tired of being belittled and sniped at because I happen to take a different stance on these issues as you. I'm not stupid, I can read.

I won't comment further in this or any further CBA related thread. Good day sir.
Give me a break.

You're making false assertions (ie. Kelly) or erroneous arguments based on not properly understanding a situation (ie. Florida Panthers).

You refuse to believe anything other than the union leadership are the champions of all that is just and right in this labor dispute. That their only goal is to do whats best for the general body of the union and the sport itself. You also seem to believe that the general body of the union is fully informed and completely understands all positions (their union's and the NHL's) in this dispute. This despite the fact that any simple research into the union, its history and the history of how their current leadership came to be would tell you thats some incredibly naive thinking. Hell, basic logistics and common sense should tell you thats not possible.

The entire Kelly fiasco and how the current leadership came to be is a very informative guide as to the mindset of the folks controlling the union right now. The hardliners wanted a hardline leader to stick it to Bettman and the league in this round of negotiations. They got their man in Fehr. Whether thats what plays out remains to be seen. I'm still holding out hope that this recent NHLPA proposal gets us closer to hockey being played. That the union has aggressively made it clear what matters the most to them, as have the league, and now common sense prevails.

Btw, I'm not sure what you expect of me when you post obvious falsehoods (brainfart or not) and erroneous interpretations of articles. Should I just nod my head and say good counterpoint?


Last edited by joshjull: 11-21-2012 at 11:44 AM.
joshjull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2012, 11:13 AM
  #163
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 32,344
vCash: 500
And the PR war continues.

NHLPA sends letter to Parliament regarding lockout

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409973

joshjull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2012, 11:19 AM
  #164
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 32,344
vCash: 500
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409856


Quote:
On November 10, New Jersey Devils enforcer Krys Barch took to Twitter and let his feelings be known.

"I wonder if the owners of Boston, New York, Washington, etc., etch., have endured any of the injuries that I or any other player in the NHL have endured," Barch wrote on his Twitter account. "Still they probably sit (there) smoking the same brand of cigar, sipping the same cognac and going on vacation to one of five houses they own...while we sit here knowing the want to take 20% of our paychecks. One half to 3/4 of my peers will have to work, for the next 50 years of their lives.

"Congratulations to the lucky select few that I have played with who have made salaries that they can choose to do whatever they want when they are done. But I have played (with most) who do not!"

Another "well informed" player speaks out. Why will he have to work for another 50 years? He's already made a little over 3mil in the last 5 years.

Someone may want to tell Barch that a fan making 50k a year would have to work 60 years to make the 3mil he made in the last 5 years. Talk about being out of touch with reality.


Last edited by joshjull: 11-21-2012 at 11:31 AM.
joshjull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2012, 11:48 AM
  #165
Old Navy Goat
Registered User
 
Old Navy Goat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: San Antonio
Country: United States
Posts: 5,929
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409856





Another "well informed" player speaks out. Why will he have to work for another 50 years? He's already made a little over 3mil in the last 5 years.

Someone may want to tell Barch that a fan making 50k a year would have to work 60 years to make the 3mil he made in the last 5 years. Talk about being out of touch with reality.
Someone should also help him out with his math skills as if the majority of these players had to work the next 50 yrs it would put them in their mid 70s well past retirement age.

Since I'm rather bored, I might try doing a little research to see what most of these players' careers post hockey will be, since we know Shawn Thornton's will be in a steel mill.

Old Navy Goat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2012, 11:53 AM
  #166
littletonhockeycoach
Registered User
 
littletonhockeycoach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Littleton, Co
Country: United States
Posts: 2,201
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409856





Another "well informed" player speaks out. Why will he have to work for another 50 years? He's already made a little over 3mil in the last 5 years.

Someone may want to tell Barch that a fan making 50k a year would have to work 60 years to make the 3mil he made in the last 5 years. Talk about being out of touch with reality.
Incredible. I admittedly don't understand the entitlement and victimization mindset. But I suspect Barch's comments speaks volumes and are not rare or unique throughout the NHLPA membership.

Did anyone force Barch to become a hockey player? Was he not aware of the risks associated with the profession going in? Does he actually believe that the owners didn't work for what they have via building a business and exposing themselves (and their fortunes) to risk?

Barch seems to view owners as greedy capitalists who live only to exploit the working man. I see little equivalence or correlation between professional NHL hockey players being working men versus my dad and my father-in law who worked for Ford and Bethlehem Steel for 35 years... and NOT in management!

The players contracts were valid under the terms of the expired CBA. I happen to believe that those terms should carry over (be grandfathered) under the new CBA while all new contracts get written under the new rules. So, I'm not in the owners corner on that issue and understand the players frustration. (This is the make whole issue -which I thought the NHL had addressed in its last proposal. But apparently, not to the players liking.)

But the idea that hockey players will still have to work at ordinary jobs (like the rest of us) after they retire? What is the world coming to?

littletonhockeycoach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2012, 12:06 PM
  #167
Old Navy Goat
Registered User
 
Old Navy Goat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: San Antonio
Country: United States
Posts: 5,929
vCash: 500
While sitting around being bored while waiting for my Realtor to come over with some paperwork, I found these interesting articles. Most are a tad bit older but piqued my attention:

http://blogs.denverpost.com/avs/2012...lockout/11527/

http://dqydj.net/athletes-are-underpaid/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozan...r-nhl-lockout/

Old Navy Goat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2012, 12:38 PM
  #168
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 32,344
vCash: 500
I have some more hope with this latest NHLPA proposal.


Dreger is reporting that Fehr and some of the hardline players representing the union aren't happy with giving up this much this early.


Last edited by joshjull: 11-21-2012 at 12:57 PM.
joshjull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2012, 12:40 PM
  #169
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 32,344
vCash: 500
NHLPA memo outlining union's Nov. 21st CBA proposal

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409992


Quote:
Here are a few significant details from our proposal:

Players' Share: A major move in the owners' direction by removing guarantees or fixed targets for Players' share.

Honouring Players' Contracts/Transition payments: Players' Share will equal 50 percent of HRR plus fixed payments in the first four years to partially honour player contracts and ease the transition to 50/50:

2012-13 - $182M
2013-14 - $128M
2014-15 - $72M
2015-16 - $11M
Total $393M

*The owners had previously proposed $211M

Long-term back-diving contracts – Cap benefit recapture rule so clubs no longer benefit from front-loading contracts (move in the owners' direction)

Contracts in the minors – Clubs take a cap hit on contracts in the minors over $1M (move in the owners' direction)

Four Recall Rule – Unlimited recalls after regular season (move in the owners' direction)

Salary Arbitration – Elimination of walk-away from arbitrator's decision, but clubs can still "walk-away" by not qualifying a player

Please read through the proposal below and contact the NHLPA if you have any questions. The league indicated that they plan to respond to our proposal later today. We will provide a further update following this meeting.

Regards, Don

There are a lot more things laid out in this memo.


Last edited by joshjull: 11-21-2012 at 12:58 PM.
joshjull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2012, 12:45 PM
  #170
Zman5778
Registered User
 
Zman5778's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: York, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 3,587
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Zman5778 Send a message via MSN to Zman5778 Send a message via Yahoo to Zman5778
If the owners reject this with not much thought, say goodbye to the season.

This certainly seems workable though.

Zman5778 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2012, 12:46 PM
  #171
Zman5778
Registered User
 
Zman5778's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: York, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 3,587
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Zman5778 Send a message via MSN to Zman5778 Send a message via Yahoo to Zman5778
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Dreger is reporting that Fehr and some of the hardline players representing the union aren't happy with giving up this much this early.
Strang/LeBrun echo this, saying that it's the moderate members of the NHLPA that are now really pushing to get this done.

Zman5778 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2012, 12:48 PM
  #172
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 32,344
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zman5778 View Post
Strang/LeBrun echo this, saying that it's the moderate members of the NHLPA that are now really pushing to get this done.
Thats whats giving me hope.


Quote:
@DarrenDreger
Fehr wouldn't confirm he was pushed to change PA's position in proposal, but, told he and hardliners had to be convinced to move


Last edited by joshjull: 11-21-2012 at 12:55 PM.
joshjull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2012, 01:39 PM
  #173
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 32,344
vCash: 500
Some thoughts from Bobby Mack

Quote:
@TSNBobMckenzie
Again, no clue what's happening in room, but I suspect NHL will think decline too gradual and have system concerns.
Quote:
@TSNBobMckenzie
But if we don't get a negotiation out of this, we never will. OK, I'm done now. Back to your regularly scheduled nonsense.
Quote:
@TSNBobMckenzie
I lied. I'm back. Good catch by @KatieStrangESPN on this: In yrs 2 thru 5, players’ share in dollars may not be less than previous yr.
Quote:
@TSNBobMckenzie
NHL will find this problematic. Goes back towards "guaranteeing" dollars. In a linked-to-revenue system, those guarantees have not existed.
Which has been a problem from the get go.

joshjull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2012, 01:42 PM
  #174
littletonhockeycoach
Registered User
 
littletonhockeycoach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Littleton, Co
Country: United States
Posts: 2,201
vCash: 500
IMHO, the owners should agree to NHLPA players share numbers. If not, then the owners are being disengenuious.

I guess the RSOC already exists? If not, good move esp. since calculating revenue seems to be at the heart of every conflict. Sounds like some valuable provisions in there to enhance transparency but I suspect the owners might have some issues here (since they like to hide revenue).

Defined benefit pension. A sweet deal for anybody these days.

CBA term is only 5 years....... sure would like to see a longer term but I'll take it.

Bottom line, definitely strikes me as a framework both sides can work with.

Kudo's to the moderate players for getting the hard liners off the dime. (Any idea who's in - and leading - the moderates group?)

And hopefully Snider can counter any latent Jacobs intransigence.

littletonhockeycoach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2012, 01:46 PM
  #175
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 32,344
vCash: 500
Katie Strang tweets which remove the hope I had earlier

Quote:
Interesting element of union proposal: features guarantee that, starting in Year 2, share cannot be lowed than previous year. (cont'd)
Quote:
(cont'd) That protects against both devaluation of CAD dollar and the potential decline in revenue and thereby shifts risk onto owners.

Quote:
Not to say PA's proposal does not include ANY wiggle room, but there certainly is expectation NHL must work from this one to move fwd

joshjull is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:54 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.