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11-21-2012, 01:47 PM
  #176
littletonhockeycoach
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Which has been a problem from the get go.
Still, I remain hopefully this opens the door to some tangible hard negotiations instead of the mental vapor farts that have been tossed around by both parties.

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11-21-2012, 01:47 PM
  #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littletonhockeycoach View Post
IMHO, the owners should agree to NHLPA players share numbers. If not, then the owners are being disengenuious.

I guess the RSOC already exists? If not, good move esp. since calculating revenue seems to be at the heart of every conflict. Sounds like some valuable provisions in there to enhance transparency but I suspect the owners might have some issues here (since they like to hide revenue).

Defined benefit pension. A sweet deal for anybody these days.

CBA term is only 5 years....... sure would like to see a longer term but I'll take it.

Bottom line, definitely strikes me as a framework both sides can work with.

Kudo's to the moderate players for getting the hard liners off the dime. (Any idea who's in - and leading - the moderates group?)

And hopefully Snider can counter any latent Jacobs intransigence.

Actually the players are asking for guaranteed money not a percentage share. Digging into this offer more its fairly obvious the quest to de-link their share has not ended.

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11-21-2012, 01:53 PM
  #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Actually the players are asking for guaranteed money not a percentage share. Digging into this offer more its fairly obvious the quest to de-link their share has not ended.
Yeah. At this point, I'm expecting the owners to scoff fairly hard at this offer and we could see a complete blowup soon.

What is the NHLPA smoking? No way, no how will the owners ever de-link.

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11-21-2012, 01:53 PM
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Katie Strang tweets which remove the hope I had earlier
Valid concerns.

We'll have to see how serious (and influencial) the moderate owners are about getting the season restarted. (talking about Ed and Ted and Rangers ownership)

Not to mention the league's sponsors. Read a couple weeks back that the NHL might be
headed towards a fiscal cliff of its own with sponsors if it doesn't show its serious about getting back on the ice.

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11-21-2012, 02:00 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littletonhockeycoach View Post
Valid concerns.

We'll have to see how serious (and influencial) the moderate owners are about getting the season restarted. (talking about Ed and Ted and Rangers ownership)

Not to mention the league's sponsors. Read a couple weeks back that the NHL might be
headed towards a fiscal cliff of its own with sponsors if it doesn't show its serious about getting back on the ice.
I find it hard to believe the owners , after fighting for linkage last lockout, will cave in and let it go away. Nor will they let the players have a system that puts all financial risk back on the owners.

I'm somehwat shocked at the idea that "moderates" pushed this out there. If this is moderate thinking from the players. Then, as a group, they are more detached from reality than I thought.

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11-21-2012, 02:01 PM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zman5778 View Post
Yeah. At this point, I'm expecting the owners to scoff fairly hard at this offer and we could see a complete blowup soon.

What is the NHLPA smoking? No way, no how will the owners ever de-link.
Agree that's what the last conflict was about and the owners won't de link.

But delinkage has been Fehr's strategy from the get go. Now it's down on paper for the purpose (possibly) of placing the burden on the owners to come up with a counter.

I.e.; no de-linkage but here's what we will offer in return for retaining it.

Which is what several of the players have been asking for all along.

So I'm hoping its just a negotiation strategy. No one should have expected the 1st written proposal from either side to be accepted as delivered.

Which might mean that the PA proposal is also designed to expose whether the owners are indeed serious whether their proposal is "take it or leave it".

If that proves to be the case, then we'll all know it and the season might as well be cancelled.

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11-21-2012, 02:15 PM
  #182
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It was fun having hope for a little bit.

Dreger on twitter

Quote:
Owners don't like the big Make Whole $ early in agreement: 2012-13 - $182M 2013-14 - $128M 2014-15 - $72M 2015-16 - $11M (Total $393M).
Quote:
Question is...will owners negotiate off the proposal and will PA accept much lower than $182 mil in year 1?
Quote:
Players won't be happy with how the league is responding to proposal. No meaningful give-backs according to PA source."Disappointing day."
Quote:
Close on rev sharing, but no contract concessions and league remains firm on $211 mil Make Whole. Talks will continue, but may not meet Thur
Quote:
There will be a PA conference call tonight. Expected players will unite and dig in based on NHL's response. Need to hear NHL's position now.


Last edited by joshjull: 11-21-2012 at 02:32 PM.
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11-21-2012, 02:28 PM
  #183
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I don't think the players understand that agreeing to a 50/50 split and then requesting an additional 393mil on top of that over the next 5 years is not actually agreeing to a 50/50 split. Then they go further by saying after year 2 their money needs to be guaranteed and can't go down if league revenues go down or if the Canadian dollar loses value.

That is NOT a linked 50/50 split.


The scary part is Fehr and the hardliners think this is giving up too much too soon. Yikes


Last edited by joshjull: 11-21-2012 at 02:41 PM.
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11-21-2012, 02:47 PM
  #184
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http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409972

Quote:
The NHLPA plans to hold a conference call Wednesday night to keep its membership updated and while talks between both sides are expected to continue, there are no plans to formally meet. "Our task is to go back and report to the players," said Fehr. "One of you is going to ask me what happens next and the answer is I don't know."
Quote:
According to sources, the NHL has decided to wipe the first two weeks of December off the schedule, which will bring the total lost during the lockout to more than 400 games. Regular season games have been canceled through Nov. 30, along with the Winter Classic contest that was supposed to be held on New Year's Day in Ann Arbor between the Toronto Maple Leafs and Detroit Red Wings.

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11-21-2012, 02:53 PM
  #185
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More from Katie Strang


Quote:
In wake of day's events, wouldn't be surprised to see de-certification resurface as viable option for NHLPA. Could be discussed on call
Quote:
For those asking, decertification would dissolve the union (into a trade association) thus nullifying ability to collectively bargain
Quote:
Why would players elect to do that? Allows them to file an antitrust suit against the league, potentially taking lockout to the courts

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11-21-2012, 02:59 PM
  #186
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Chris Johnston ‏@reporterchris
Quote:
Donald Fehr says players insisted on guaranteeing their share won't go down any year because of the other concessions they've made

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11-21-2012, 03:14 PM
  #187
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LeBrun:

Quote:
Make Whole $$$ asked for by players will need to go down as well.... But today was not a waste no matter what anybody says
Quote:
The 2 sides got closer today... Deal won't get done unless NHL is willing to step down on some contracting rights demands...
Quote:
Despite NHL response to NHLPA offer, I still feel it was an important step. Ignore the rhetoric and focus on process. ...

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11-21-2012, 03:17 PM
  #188
joshjull
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Kevin Paul Dupont ‏@GlobeKPD
Quote:
Days like today serve to remind that optimism is total waste of a pessimist's life.

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11-21-2012, 03:18 PM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zman5778 View Post
LeBrun:
I hope Lebrun is right and want to share his optimism.

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11-21-2012, 06:54 PM
  #190
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Disappointing.

As is the reality that it's taken what... 9 or 10 weeks? ....to get to a point they could/should have been at within the first 2 weeks of the lockout. (written statements of position)

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11-21-2012, 07:29 PM
  #191
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I'd be happy with even a fraction of what these clowns make.

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11-21-2012, 10:56 PM
  #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kishire View Post
I'd be happy with even a fraction of what these clowns make.
If money makes you happy ...

Mega millions
NY lotto
Take 5
NY powerball
Quick Draw

And countless scratch offs.... Good luck

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11-21-2012, 11:51 PM
  #193
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No go from owners:

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL.../20375461.html

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL.../20375521.html

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11-22-2012, 01:10 AM
  #194
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http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409972
here is the real story.

The one sticking point is contract rights. As a sabres fan this is one area I want to see the players win. 5 year contract length would all but kill the Sabres free agency chances. I really hope the NHLPA wins this one or Pegulabucks will be meaningless.


Last edited by joshjull: 11-22-2012 at 01:40 PM.
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11-22-2012, 07:14 AM
  #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heartsabres;

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409972
here is the real story.

The one sticking point is contract rights. As a sabres fan this is one area I want to see the players win. 5 year contract length would all but kill the Sabres free agency chances. I really hope the NHLPA wins this one or Pegulabucks will be meaningless.
not neccessarily true. Pegula still has the ability to hand out FAT upfront signing bonuses on July 1, which some owners don't.


Last edited by joshjull: 11-22-2012 at 01:41 PM.
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11-22-2012, 10:55 AM
  #196
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Leave it to a Flyer fan .....


http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...3751--nhl.html

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11-22-2012, 11:15 AM
  #197
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle5530468/

Summary of the PA's proposal from the Globe and Mail - last updated at 9:42 pm or so last night.

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11-22-2012, 11:41 AM
  #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabreality View Post
not neccessarily true. Pegula still has the ability to hand out FAT upfront signing bonuses on July 1, which some owners don't.
Plus in house improvements to scouting, training, development, amenities etc.

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11-22-2012, 12:41 PM
  #199
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I don't get it. The owners and players are making MORE than enough money to live a very nice life without any financial problems for the remainder of their life.

Why in the hell do they need more money? Just make a damn deal for christs sake, does it really matter if you are making 5 million more dollars.

This is why our country is ****ed

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11-22-2012, 02:49 PM
  #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyersMagic57 View Post
I don't get it. The owners and players are making MORE than enough money to live a very nice life without any financial problems for the remainder of their life.

Why in the hell do they need more money? Just make a damn deal for christs sake, does it really matter if you are making 5 million more dollars.

This is why our country is ****ed
There are many reasons why our country is declining ... Anything related to the 4th most popular sport isn't a reason.



If you mean people wanting to make as much money or get as many possessions as possible with little regard to who they step on...... Well, since the begining of time that has been the nature of humans and creatures alike




Share and share alike is a nice warm feeling but unrealistic and unsustainable. Survival of the fittest/get as much as I can get is reality. That absolutely positively will never change.

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