HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part VII: The Last Waltz "Cut the sheet & drop the puck!"

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-21-2012, 02:44 PM
  #376
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
 
Tawnos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 12,204
vCash: 500
Great, so propose evening out when you respond. Don't just shrug and say "that sucks."

Tawnos is online now  
Old
11-21-2012, 02:45 PM
  #377
Thirty One
portnor, pls
 
Thirty One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,686
vCash: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
So basically de-linkage? I am very confused by the details emerging about this proposal.

But if in any way it is de-linked, in that the players are guaranteed a set $ amount, then...
Yeah, it's de-linkage creatively worded. There is still a minimum amount in absolute dollars that players will be paid in every year in this offer.

Thirty One is offline  
Old
11-21-2012, 02:47 PM
  #378
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
 
Tawnos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 12,204
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Yeah, it's de-linkage creatively worded. There is still a minimum amount in absolute dollars that players will be paid in every year in this offer.
Well, technically it's only half-delinked. Salary growth is linked to revenue growth in the proposal.

Tawnos is online now  
Old
11-21-2012, 02:52 PM
  #379
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,112
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Well, technically it's only half-delinked. Salary growth is linked to revenue growth in the proposal.
Thats how it seems.

So, essentially what Fehr is saying is "if revenue's grow, salaries can grow with it. But if revenues decrease, salaries cant"

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline  
Old
11-21-2012, 02:52 PM
  #380
Thirty One
portnor, pls
 
Thirty One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,686
vCash: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Well, technically it's only half-delinked. Salary growth is linked to revenue growth in the proposal.
Yeah, it's linked on the upside for the players, but not the downside. I think even calling that half-delinked is a stretch.

Thirty One is offline  
Old
11-21-2012, 02:54 PM
  #381
HatTrick Swayze
Tomato Potato
 
HatTrick Swayze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 9,581
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ESPN
One interesting feature of the NHLPA's offer is that, beginning in Year 2, the players' share in dollars cannot be lower than the previous year. That protects the players from both the potential devaluation of the Canadian dollar and a possible decline in revenue, thereby shifting the risk onto the owners.
Yea basically it wants the players to assume no downside. So it's "linked" only to upside that may or may not occur.

That's gonna go over well.

__________________
"Here we can see the agression of american people. They love fighting and guns. when they wont win they try to kill us all." -HalfOfFame
HatTrick Swayze is offline  
Old
11-21-2012, 02:55 PM
  #382
DutchShamrock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 5,001
vCash: 500
I get frustrations, but would be nice to end the cycle of lockouts.

DutchShamrock is offline  
Old
11-21-2012, 02:55 PM
  #383
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,900
vCash: 500
The NHLPA proposal on back diving contracts and the punishment. The NHL wanted the team to take the full cap hit if the player retires before the SPC expires.

Quote:
What the players offered was a rule that would require teams to take any "cap benefit" gained and charge it against their own cap. (There is also an option for clubs to spread it over twice the number of remaining seasons in the offending contract. So, if the player retires with two years left, the proposal allows the team to apply the penalty over four.)

So, let's assume you're a GM and sign a player to a 10-year, $55-million deal. The breakdown is easy: $10 million in year one, down to $1 million in year 10. The cap hit is $5.5 million each year. So, in year one, your benefit is $4.5 million, in year two it's $3.5 million, year three is $2.5 million, four is $1.5 million, five is $500,000, six is minus-$500,000, seven is minus-$1.5 million and eight is minus-$2.5 million.

Then your guy retires. Add all of those up and you're plus-$8 million overall when he quits. The team would then have a choice: it can take that $8 million medicine over two years (four million per season) or four years ($2 million per season).

That's against the cap.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...contracts.html

RangerBoy is offline  
Old
11-21-2012, 02:57 PM
  #384
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
 
Tawnos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 12,204
vCash: 500
Honestly, this shouldn't be that much of a worry when you view it realistically. What they're basically saying is that year 2's share in dollars is the lowest they will see. Full season revenues will increase in year 3, as all of the people who had decided to stop spending money on the league because of the lockout will have already done so.

Tawnos is online now  
Old
11-21-2012, 02:57 PM
  #385
DutchShamrock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 5,001
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
Yea basically it wants the players to assume no downside. So it's "linked" only to upside that may or may not occur.

That's gonna go over well.
They can certainly counter instead of rejecting out of hand. I'm sure the union will move off the economics if contract stuff is loosened.

DutchShamrock is offline  
Old
11-21-2012, 02:57 PM
  #386
HatTrick Swayze
Tomato Potato
 
HatTrick Swayze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 9,581
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
The NHLPA proposal on back diving contracts and the punishment. The NHL wanted the team to take the full cap hit if the player retires before the SPC expires.



http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...contracts.html
This seems more than fair.

HatTrick Swayze is offline  
Old
11-21-2012, 03:00 PM
  #387
HatTrick Swayze
Tomato Potato
 
HatTrick Swayze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 9,581
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Honestly, this shouldn't be that much of a worry when you view it realistically. What they're basically saying is that year 2's share in dollars is the lowest they will see. Full season revenues will increase in year 3, as all of the people who had decided to stop spending money on the league because of the lockout will have already done so.
Good point. Does their share that this is based off of include the make-whole $?

HatTrick Swayze is offline  
Old
11-21-2012, 03:01 PM
  #388
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
 
Tawnos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 12,204
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
Good point. Does their share that this is based off of include the make-whole $?
It doesn't say, but I doubt it.

Tawnos is online now  
Old
11-21-2012, 03:04 PM
  #389
Lundsanity30
Registered User
 
Lundsanity30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 10,743
vCash: 500
its amazing that people are shocked that Fehr is a ****** like this. He was the one responsible for the MLB stoppage in 94

Lundsanity30 is offline  
Old
11-21-2012, 03:04 PM
  #390
Thirty One
portnor, pls
 
Thirty One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,686
vCash: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
This seems more than fair.
I actually proposed that exact solution (if I'm reading it correctly) two summers ago as an amendment to the then-current CBA.

I can see why the NHL doesn't like it though. It:
1. Doesn't punish the existing cheaters, just the ones going forward.
2. It allows a team to cheat the cap and pay for it 5-10 years later.

Thirty One is offline  
Old
11-21-2012, 03:10 PM
  #391
Desdichado62
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 223
vCash: 500
Dan Rosen ‏@drosennhl The meeting is over. The NHLPA is coming down to speak to the media now.

Desdichado62 is offline  
Old
11-21-2012, 03:13 PM
  #392
BrooklynRangersFan
Change is good.
 
BrooklynRangersFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn of course
Country: United States
Posts: 10,562
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
The NHLPA proposal on back diving contracts and the punishment. The NHL wanted the team to take the full cap hit if the player retires before the SPC expires.



http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...contracts.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
This seems more than fair.
Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
I actually proposed that exact solution (if I'm reading it correctly) two summers ago as an amendment to the then-current CBA.

I can see why the NHL doesn't like it though. It:
1. Doesn't punish the existing cheaters, just the ones going forward.
2. It allows a team to cheat the cap and pay for it 5-10 years later.
Yes, that is an interesting, thoughtful, creative proposal that seems very fair. I would be 100% lauding the PA for that one.... iiiiiiif it wasn't completely meaningless.

1) does not apply against existing deals
2) only applies on deals that are 9 years or longer
3) proposed term of the CBA is 5 years

Anyone else see the problem?

Seriously, do they even have competent business people or even simply diligent attorneys review this **** before they hand it over to the other side?

BrooklynRangersFan is offline  
Old
11-21-2012, 03:13 PM
  #393
turcotte8
Registered User
 
turcotte8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,872
vCash: 500
Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger

Players won't be happy with how the league is responding to proposal. No meaningful give-backs according to PA source."Disappointing day."

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger

Close on rev sharing, but no contract concessions and league remains firm on $211 mil Make Whole. Talks will continue, but may not meet Thur

turcotte8 is offline  
Old
11-21-2012, 03:17 PM
  #394
HatTrick Swayze
Tomato Potato
 
HatTrick Swayze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 9,581
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by turcotte8 View Post
Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger

Players won't be happy with how the league is responding to proposal. No meaningful give-backs according to PA source."Disappointing day."

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger

Close on rev sharing, but no contract concessions and league remains firm on $211 mil Make Whole. Talks will continue, but may not meet Thur
Yay. Why do I keep following this?

HatTrick Swayze is offline  
Old
11-21-2012, 03:19 PM
  #395
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,258
vCash: 500
one has to wonder how much cancelling a block of games hurts financially vs just conceding the "make whole" aspect of it.

Inferno is offline  
Old
11-21-2012, 03:26 PM
  #396
BOXPLAY
Registered User
 
BOXPLAY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 94
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to BOXPLAY
This is just going to keep dragging on until the players give in. The owners can afford to play this game the players can not

BOXPLAY is offline  
Old
11-21-2012, 03:27 PM
  #397
NyRangers88
Section 208 Row 15
 
NyRangers88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 10,424
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to NyRangers88
I'm at the point where I'm starting to care less and less. I'd rather just hang on to my money this year then have it go towards tickets for half a season.

__________________
2013-2014 Eastern Conference Champions!!
NyRangers88 is online now  
Old
11-21-2012, 03:29 PM
  #398
Staals Eye
once TortsKindaGuy
 
Staals Eye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 826
vCash: 500
Am I the only one that thinks the PA has given up enough already with this proposal? I fail to see where the NHL is making any concessions towards the PA. I hope the players stand strong and only sign a contract that they can live with. Once you give up some thing, your never going to get it back.

Staals Eye is offline  
Old
11-21-2012, 03:32 PM
  #399
Thirty One
portnor, pls
 
Thirty One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,686
vCash: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torts Kinda Guy View Post
Am I the only one that thinks the PA has given up enough already with this proposal? I fail to see where the NHL is making any concessions towards the PA. I hope the players stand strong and only sign a contract that they can live with. Once you give up some thing, your never going to get it back.
https://twitter.com/walsha

Thirty One is offline  
Old
11-21-2012, 03:34 PM
  #400
BBKers
Registered User
 
BBKers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: South Koster, Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 5,824
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to BBKers
Did anyone here - especially knowing the "players" at the table - expect The NHL to respond to the NHLPA offer today by proclaiming "Great. We got we wanted. Thanx a lot for those concessions. Now we have a deal!"???

This is a process

Wherever it ends...

BBKers is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:58 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.