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Old
11-21-2012, 02:28 PM
  #51
AJMHABS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
Eberle and Hall are better and valued higher [at a younger age] than any Canadiens player not named Price. As for Yakapov, he just got drafted #1 and would take a boatload to get based on potential.

I don't think Price alone gets Yakapov.

Edmonton would have to be crazy to do this IMO.
You're right, Price alone gets Yakupov+.

And I get what you're saying, but IF this deal were to happen (God forbid), MTL would come out a bit worse than EDM. It's basically trading foundation for foundation.

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Old
11-21-2012, 02:33 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Oscar Acosta View Post
PS: There is no one uneducated enough to think that:

Nevermind!

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Old
11-21-2012, 02:35 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by oilerbear View Post
Do your home work!

3M more for the same Save %.

Price .912Sv% 13W 20L; .916 SV% 26W 28L

Dubnyk: .916 SV% 12W 13L .914 SV% 20W 20L

Less buy in to the eastern hype please!
While were at it, here's a fun fact.

Price has hit a .920+ SV% in 2 seasons ( one being his rookie season, the other carrying the Habs into the PO.)

Dubnyk has never hit it. He may have played less games, but is older than Price and still hasn't stolen the number 1 goalie position from Khabibulin.

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Old
11-21-2012, 02:38 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilerbear View Post
Do your home work!

3M more for the same Save %.

Price .912Sv% 13W 20L; .916 SV% 26W 28L

Dubnyk: .916 SV% 12W 13L .914 SV% 20W 20L

Less buy in to the eastern hype please!
Wasn't comparing Price to Dubnyk.

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Old
11-21-2012, 02:42 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJMHABS View Post
You're right, Price alone gets Yakupov+.

And I get what you're saying, but IF this deal were to happen (God forbid), MTL would come out a bit worse than EDM. It's basically trading foundation for foundation.
Maybe in the standings since MTL can't keep goals out of their own net, but Yakapov and Hall are potential franchise elite wingers. Hall and Eberle alone have put up better numbers in their early twenties than anyone MTL is trading.

I like Price and Subban and Patches but in no way would they be more valuable than a #1 overall pick. Absolutely not. Let alone TWO #1 overall picks.

It's crazy.

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Old
11-21-2012, 02:43 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
Eberle and Hall are better and valued higher [at a younger age] than any Canadiens player not named Price. As for Yakapov, he just got drafted #1 and would take a boatload to get based on potential.

I don't think Price alone gets Yakapov.

Edmonton would have to be crazy to do this IMO.
Agreed.

The Oilers would have to be insane.

Pac = Eberle?

Whatever.

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Old
11-21-2012, 02:44 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJMHABS View Post
While were at it, here's a fun fact.

Price has hit a .920+ SV% in 2 seasons ( one being his rookie season, the other carrying the Habs into the PO.)

Dubnyk has never hit it. He may have played less games, but is older than Price and still hasn't stolen the number 1 goalie position from Khabibulin.
He stole it last year.

He was the number 1 goalie.

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Old
11-21-2012, 02:47 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
To Edmonton
Scott Gomez
PK Subban
Carey Price
Max Pacioretty

To Montreal
Shawn Horcoff
Nail Yakupov
Devan Dubnyk
Jordan Eberle
Taylor Hall
Yakupov for Subban straight up.

You can say that Subban is worth more, but
Pacioretty/Galchenyuk/Yakupov??

That is a scary looking top line.

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Old
11-21-2012, 02:58 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by ThePhoenixx View Post
Agreed.

The Oilers would have to be insane.

Pac = Eberle?

Whatever.
Yeah if that's the notion being put out there it's crazy. And I say that respectively since Pacs is a good player and who knows, maybe one day that idea won't be so crazy but today, Eberle is far more valuable.

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:05 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by AJMHABS View Post
Poor choice of words. Unproven would be better. He's proven to be a good NHL backup, but when it comes to being a starter, IDK if he is.
poor choice of words. Dubnyk has proven a lot for a so called "back up" (last time i checked, he played more games last year than NK did, making Dubnyk our starter).

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:12 PM
  #61
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poor choice of words. Dubnyk has proven a lot for a so called "back up" (last time i checked, he played more games last year than NK did, making Dubnyk our starter).
When I said poor choice of words, I meant on my part and my post. My bad.

I don't follow the Oilers, besides maybe a couple of games, so I can't speak on the goaltending situation as it is now.

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:22 PM
  #62
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Montreal's trio of Price, Subban, Patches > Eberle, Hall, Yakupov. As good as Yakupov/Hall are, I really think they should have taken Seguin and Murray. 1-2 punch of Seguin and RNH while having Murray and Schultz on the back end sounds a lot better.

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:33 PM
  #63
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Montreal gets ***** in this one!

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Old
11-21-2012, 04:08 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoppaForsberg View Post
Montreal's trio of Price, Subban, Patches > Eberle, Hall, Yakupov. As good as Yakupov/Hall are, I really think they should have taken Seguin and Murray. 1-2 punch of Seguin and RNH while having Murray and Schultz on the back end sounds a lot better.
Lol that's about as bad of a plan as this proposal.

Why propose something when it absolutely ***** the team you cheer for?

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Old
11-21-2012, 04:16 PM
  #65
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Lol that's about as bad of a plan as this proposal.

Why propose something when it absolutely ***** the team you cheer for?
How so? When's the last time a team had tons of elite wingers and only 1 legitimate #1 center with no defense won the cup?

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Old
11-21-2012, 04:25 PM
  #66
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Montreal win,they get way better assets then Edmonton

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Old
11-21-2012, 04:25 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by FoppaForsberg View Post
How so? When's the last time a team had tons of elite wingers and only 1 legitimate #1 center with no defense won the cup?
Well, for one, the Oilers have plenty of dmen. They currently have 4 legit top 4 dmen and quite a few prospects (Klefbom, Schultz, Marincin...) with top pairing upside. There's of course no guarantee that they pan out, but defense won't be a problem. Next, everyone knows the Oilers need a bigger #2 C, but Seguin isn't that. They'll also very likely draft said big #2C this coming year. If that doesn't pan out, they can trade some of their many, many assets for one. No need to pass up a guy like Hall just to get a #2C.

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Old
11-21-2012, 04:56 PM
  #68
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Dubnyk and Yakupov > Price
Hall > Subban
Eberle > Patches
Horcoff > Gomez

.... tough call

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Old
11-21-2012, 05:03 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
I've edited the deal.
Pray I don't alter it any further?

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Old
11-21-2012, 05:12 PM
  #70
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As a Montreal fan and even a bigger fan of Subban , i have still no choice but to accept the OP deal.

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Old
11-21-2012, 05:14 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Iceonfire View Post
Yakupov for Subban straight up.

You can say that Subban is worth more, but
Pacioretty/Galchenyuk/Yakupov??

That is a scary looking top line.
habs don't need another small scoring winger...not at the expense of a top 15 NHL dman who is 23. not a chance

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Old
11-21-2012, 06:26 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilerbear View Post
Do your home work!

3M more for the same Save %.

Price .912Sv% 13W 20L; .916 SV% 26W 28L

Dubnyk: .916 SV% 12W 13L .914 SV% 20W 20L

Less buy in to the eastern hype please!
3M for a younger goalie who has proven a heck of a lot more, started more than twice as many games and who has actually shown he can carry a team.

Dubnyk has started 47 games in a season once. It's easy to put up decent numbers when you only play half the games. I'll be impressed if he can actually match those numbers over a 60+ start season.

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Old
11-21-2012, 06:33 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoppaForsberg View Post
Montreal's trio of Price, Subban, Patches > Eberle, Hall, Yakupov. As good as Yakupov/Hall are, I really think they should have taken Seguin and Murray. 1-2 punch of Seguin and RNH while having Murray and Schultz on the back end sounds a lot better.
^i can understand that point of view, but then the Oil would have drafted for need and not taken the BPA in both drafts and that's risky.

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Old
11-21-2012, 08:35 PM
  #74
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Horcoff>>Gomez (one > for performance, one > for costing 1.5M cheaper)
Pacioretty=Eberle (I'm being generous to Patches here)
Price>>>Dubnyk (perennial all-star, better pedigree, younger - the only thing Dubnyk has going here is a not overly high statistical difference between the 2)

Which leaves Hall+Yakupov vs Subban. I'm going to put a >>>> there for the Oilers package.
Hall>Subban (younger, clear-cut #1 franchise winger vs questionable #1D with promise)
Yakupov>>>nothing (he shoudl have 4>'s to be honest, just because there's no return).

Let's find the difference in >'s!!

Oilers >>> Habs in terms of what's being offered.

The only reason that this deal is even close is the OPTICS of what each team's getting here. The Oilers would come out of this deal with an elite #1G (Price), questionable young #1D (Subban) to go with Klefbom/Schultz, and a #1C (RNH) and #1W (Pacioretty). A more complete deal. This is from their original position of having an average #1G, a #3D (Smid), and 3 #1W's (Hall, Eberle, Yakupov - an excess of riches)

MTL would go from having a superstar #1G, an emerging #1D, and a #1W, with an upcoming #1C (Galchenyuk) to having an average #1G, nothing close to a #1D (unless Markov pulls through), and 3 #1W (again, an embarassment of riches, especially without an elite playmaker there to feed them).

The optics work out much better for the Oilers, although it's still not justifiable in terms of the amount they're giving up in talent. They're better off selling them in a bunch of smaller individual deals to acquire talent than something like this.

Habs get ***** on optics - which is why fans are terrified of this deal. But if they did manage to get this package they could easily start flipping players to land replacements for Price/Subban.

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Old
11-21-2012, 08:55 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
Horcoff>>Gomez (one > for performance, one > for costing 1.5M cheaper)
Pacioretty=Eberle (I'm being generous to Patches here)
Price>>>Dubnyk (perennial all-star, better pedigree, younger - the only thing Dubnyk has going here is a not overly high statistical difference between the 2)

Which leaves Hall+Yakupov vs Subban. I'm going to put a >>>> there for the Oilers package.
Hall>Subban (younger, clear-cut #1 franchise winger vs questionable #1D with promise)
Yakupov>>>nothing (he shoudl have 4>'s to be honest, just because there's no return).

Let's find the difference in >'s!!

Oilers >>> Habs in terms of what's being offered.

The only reason that this deal is even close is the OPTICS of what each team's getting here. The Oilers would come out of this deal with an elite #1G (Price), questionable young #1D (Subban) to go with Klefbom/Schultz, and a #1C (RNH) and #1W (Pacioretty). A more complete deal. This is from their original position of having an average #1G, a #3D (Smid), and 3 #1W's (Hall, Eberle, Yakupov - an excess of riches)

MTL would go from having a superstar #1G, an emerging #1D, and a #1W, with an upcoming #1C (Galchenyuk) to having an average #1G, nothing close to a #1D (unless Markov pulls through), and 3 #1W (again, an embarassment of riches, especially without an elite playmaker there to feed them).

The optics work out much better for the Oilers, although it's still not justifiable in terms of the amount they're giving up in talent. They're better off selling them in a bunch of smaller individual deals to acquire talent than something like this.

Habs get ***** on optics - which is why fans are terrified of this deal. But if they did manage to get this package they could easily start flipping players to land replacements for Price/Subban.
This assessment i agree with. Nicely broken down. At the end of the day while the value is there (or favoring the Habs) the fact is that it would be completely unnecessary and would open up huge holes that the Habs would have to plug by flipping the players they just acquired. In other words, pointless trade.

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