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Old
11-21-2012, 02:47 PM
  #626
Hockey 4 Life
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To
Van
Lupul
Liles
Lombardi

Tor
Lou
Raymond
Alberts

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Old
11-21-2012, 02:48 PM
  #627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey 4 Life View Post
To
Van
Lupul
Liles
Lombardi

Tor
Lou
Raymond
Alberts
I think Liles has more value to Toronto than he does to Vancouver. Swap him for Kadri or a cond 1st and I'd do it.

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Old
11-21-2012, 02:52 PM
  #628
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Originally Posted by Hockey 4 Life View Post
To
Van
Lupul
Liles
Lombardi

Tor
Lou
Raymond
Alberts
we have no use for Raymond. Stop including him in proposals. Just like we have to hear from Canucks fans that they no use for players like Komisarek, Franson, etc.

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Old
11-21-2012, 02:55 PM
  #629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey 4 Life View Post
To
Van
Lupul
Liles
Lombardi

Tor
Lou
Raymond
Alberts
Liles was one of Toronto's better Defensman last season, so why would they want to trade him?

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Old
11-21-2012, 02:58 PM
  #630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
How about the situation with Rick Nash in Columbus which I think is a better example then Jeff Carter. He told the media publicly he asked for a trade, although he still said he would show up everyday and keep playing. Now obviously we have no idea what was said to him when the media wasn't around. However Luongo has basically said the same things as Nash and wouldn't you agree their situations are no different?
It's too difficult to equate Nash and Luongo as the same thing, sure there are similarities and if you're looking for another situation to compare to you can use Nash. But there are so many differences as well. People will state what they want to happen in a trade then try to back that up with evidence from other situations, but the truth is most situations aren't similar enough to create predictions for one based on another.

Vancouver fans and I'm going out on a bit of a limb here when I say the owner as well really don't look at Luongo's contract as the albatross that other fans see it as. When Nash was on the block I looked at his contract as an albatross though when I contemplated whether Vancouver should try to trade for him. I think with bigger contracts fans get used to them and accept them to a certain degree.

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:02 PM
  #631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I think Liles has more value to Toronto than he does to Vancouver. Swap him for Kadri or a cond 1st and I'd do it.
Personally speaking I rather give up Kadri. Worst case he could be replaced in their system by whoever the Maple Leafs 1st round pick turns out to be.

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:09 PM
  #632
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I just want to have some fun comparing Nash's value to *perhaps* Luongo in comparison with the Toronto Maple Leafs. [strictly value wise].


Rick Nash


Brandon Dubinsky
Artem Anisimov
Tim Erixon
1st Round Pick

[would be comparable to]


Nikolai Kulemin
Clark Macarthur
Stuart Percy
1st Round pick

Anyone agree, disagree? It's tough because the 1st is going to have a different value though.

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:09 PM
  #633
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lush View Post
It's too difficult to equate Nash and Luongo as the same thing, sure there are similarities and if you're looking for another situation to compare to you can use Nash. But there are so many differences as well. People will state what they want to happen in a trade then try to back that up with evidence from other situations, but the truth is most situations aren't similar enough to create predictions for one based on another.

Vancouver fans and I'm going out on a bit of a limb here when I say the owner as well really don't look at Luongo's contract as the albatross that other fans see it as. When Nash was on the block I looked at his contract as an albatross though when I contemplated whether Vancouver should try to trade for him. I think with bigger contracts fans get used to them and accept them to a certain degree.
The same way you looked at Nash's contract and don't like it are the same concerns Toronto fans have with Luongo's contract. However chances are Nash will play out his contract with the Rangers and people seem to think Luongo will retire before his contract is to expire.

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:11 PM
  #634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
I just want to have some fun comparing Nash's value to *perhaps* Luongo in comparison with the Toronto Maple Leafs. [strictly value wise].


Rick Nash


Brandon Dubinsky
Artem Anisimov
Tim Erixon
1st Round Pick

[would be comparable to]


Nikolai Kulemin
Clark Macarthur
Stuart Percy
1st Round pick

Anyone agree disagree? It's tough because the 1st is going to have a different value though.
I'd say Anisimov is similar calibre to Macarthur but is much cheaper, and Erixon >> Percy.

But TO's first is more valuable than NYR 1st, although if it's conditional then it's not that far off.

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:18 PM
  #635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
I just want to have some fun comparing Nash's value to *perhaps* Luongo in comparison with the Toronto Maple Leafs. [strictly value wise].


Rick Nash


Brandon Dubinsky
Artem Anisimov
Tim Erixon
1st Round Pick

[would be comparable to]


Nikolai Kulemin
Clark Macarthur
Stuart Percy
1st Round pick

Anyone agree, disagree? It's tough because the 1st is going to have a different value though.

Brandon Dubinsky = Nikolai Kulemin
Artem Anisimov > Clark Macarthur
Tim Erixon > Stuart Percy
1st Round Pick < 1st Round pick

Just the way I see it. Personally I don't want Kuli though, not a knock on him, I just don't see where he fits with what we have already. Value to value wise this is what I would want.

Bozak
Kadri
Pery/Finn a top d prospect
1st.

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:20 PM
  #636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I'd say Anisimov is similar calibre to Macarthur but is much cheaper, and Erixon >> Percy.

But TO's first is more valuable than NYR 1st, although if it's conditional then it's not that far off.
Also 3 years younger if I am not mistaken.

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:38 PM
  #637
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Anisimov has not proven to be any better than MacArthur during his 3-year NHL career. In fact, MacArthur has produced at a better rate each of those years and provides a more physical component to a top-9.

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:38 PM
  #638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
I just want to have some fun comparing Nash's value to *perhaps* Luongo in comparison with the Toronto Maple Leafs. [strictly value wise].


Rick Nash


Brandon Dubinsky
Artem Anisimov
Tim Erixon
1st Round Pick

[would be comparable to]


Nikolai Kulemin
Clark Macarthur
Stuart Percy
1st Round pick

Anyone agree, disagree? It's tough because the 1st is going to have a different value though.
In my opinion the differences is Tim Erixon has some NHL experience, where as Stuart Percy doesn't have any. Personally I would replace Percy and offer Carter Ashton.

However the 1st round picks can't be compared. It's a very good chance that the Rangers 1st round pick in 2013 will be between 20th - 30th overall, although more realistically I see it going from 25th - 30th overall. If the Maple Leafs make the Playoffs with Luongo it means Vancouver doesn't get a top 5 or top 10 pick, however I would still want any 1st round pick from Toronto to be conditional that they make the Playoffs to be on the safe side. So that's why a team like the Rangers was able to include their 1st round pick for Rick Nash.

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:46 PM
  #639
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnybaby View Post
Anisimov has not proven to be any better than MacArthur during his 3-year NHL career. In fact, MacArthur has produced at a better rate each of those years and provides a more physical component to a top-9.
MacArthur's first three years in the league were
gm g A PTS PIM
37 8 7 15 20
71 17 14 31 56
60 13 13 26 47

Vs

Anisimov
82 12 16 28 32
82 18 26 44 20
79 16 20 36 34

As you can see Anismov also seems to be a healthier player, plus again three years younger, and cheaper, and not going to be a UFA soon.

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:46 PM
  #640
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
Bozak
Kadri
Pery/Finn a top d prospect
1st.
Seems like the Leafs are moving a lot of future and not much salary. I don't think that is going to work.

Also, why are we comparing Luongo's value to Nash's? Completely different values in my opinion. Both are very good players who have asked for a trade, yes. However, Nash is 28 while Luongo is 33. Nash's contract has a higher cap hit but ends when he is 33 while Luongo's ends when he is 43. Major difference. Also, despite what Vancouver fans (who are admittedly much closer to the team than I) will say about the goaltending situation, Nash asked for a trade out because he wanted to move on while Luongo appears to have been beaten out of his #1 spot going forward.

Also, trading Lupul is not a good idea for the Leafs right now.

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:50 PM
  #641
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
I just want to have some fun comparing Nash's value to *perhaps* Luongo in comparison with the Toronto Maple Leafs. [strictly value wise].


Rick Nash


Brandon Dubinsky
Artem Anisimov
Tim Erixon
1st Round Pick

[would be comparable to]


Nikolai Kulemin
Clark Macarthur
Stuart Percy
1st Round pick

Anyone agree, disagree? It's tough because the 1st is going to have a different value though.


I value Dubinsky, Anisimov and Erixon more than their respective counterparts in the TO package. And the difference in the potential range in the 1sts doesn't make up for it.


Erixon is going to be a really good Dman IMO. If he had more exposure in the NHL to this point, many would be a lot higher on him.

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:51 PM
  #642
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spasmatic Dan View Post
Seems like the Leafs are moving a lot of future and not much salary. I don't think that is going to work.

Also, why are we comparing Luongo's value to Nash's? Completely different values in my opinion. Both are very good players who have asked for a trade, yes. However, Nash is 28 while Luongo is 33. Nash's contract has a higher cap hit but ends when he is 33 while Luongo's ends when he is 43. Major difference. Also, despite what Vancouver fans (who are admittedly much closer to the team than I) will say about the goaltending situation, Nash asked for a trade out because he wanted to move on while Luongo appears to have been beaten out of his #1 spot going forward.

Also, trading Lupul is not a good idea for the Leafs right now.
I didn't start the comparison, that would be a leaf fan. So complain to them. As I stated, I think the package I put forth would be close to that package, and would also be filling the needs of Vancouver.

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Old
11-21-2012, 04:10 PM
  #643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
MacArthur's first three years in the league were
gm g A PTS PIM
37 8 7 15 20
71 17 14 31 56
60 13 13 26 47

Vs

Anisimov
82 12 16 28 32
82 18 26 44 20
79 16 20 36 34

As you can see Anismov also seems to be a healthier player, plus again three years younger, and cheaper, and not going to be a UFA soon.
MacArthur's last year you quoted was actually split between Buffalo and Atlanta.
81 games, 16 goals, 19 assists for 35 points.

The first year you provided was also a year split between the AHL and NHL, it has nothing to do with MacArthur's health, he played a full year. He was on pace for 33 points.

The contract and age differential is dualy noted. Although, MacArthur is from the west and I'd be very suprised if he didn't resign at the same or less money on a new deal. Anisimov's contract will also likely go up this offseason.

MacArthur also has a 62 point season, and 2 years where he has been at or over 20 goals. He is a much more proven asset at this stage than Anisimov.

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11-21-2012, 04:21 PM
  #644
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Anisimov >> MacArthur for me. I hold potential UFA's in very low regard for value though, as well as tweener wingers. Anisimov would have a non-redundant role on our team as third line center, something MacA would not be given.

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Old
11-21-2012, 04:26 PM
  #645
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marty111 View Post

Nikolai Kulemin
Clark Macarthur
Stuart Percy
1st Round pick
LOL! NOP.

Roberto, a 34 year old--potentially 35 the next time he plays in the NHL, is not going to return that kind of value.

If you can't see the difference between a 34/35 year old netminder signed for another decade and a 28 year old power forward in his prime, I don't know what to tell you.

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11-21-2012, 04:34 PM
  #646
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
Anisimov >> MacArthur for me. I hold potential UFA's in very low regard for value though, as well as tweener wingers. Anisimov would have a non-redundant role on our team as third line center, something MacA would not be given.

Similar to my thoughts. I too like Anisimov over MacArthur for the same reasons, but also because of the size and upside potential Anisimov still brings.



As an aside, everyone understands that the 6 year age difference between Nash and Luongo will matter, but how much does it impact things? If all of the player assets in the CLB package are already valued higher, does this make up the difference, or is it still more?

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11-21-2012, 04:35 PM
  #647
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
LOL! NOP.

Roberto, a 34 year old--potentially 35 the next time he plays in the NHL, is not going to return that kind of value.

If you can't see the difference between a 34/35 year old netminder signed for another decade and a 28 year old power forward in his prime, I don't know what to tell you.
Luongo is currently 33 with a possibility of being 34 if there's a full year lockout. Stop twisting the facts.
And this "power forward in his prime" scored 7 goals, while Luongo is a season removed from Vezina nomination. You're right, though, I think anyone could see the difference between them.

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11-21-2012, 04:41 PM
  #648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Similar to my thoughts. I too like Anisimov over MacArthur for the same reasons, but also because of the size and upside potential Anisimov still brings.



As an aside, everyone understands that the 6 year age difference between Nash and Luongo will matter, but how much does it impact things? If all of the player assets in the CLB package are already valued higher, does this make up the difference, or is it still more?

I agree, and think we should also look at the supposed original asking price of

Bozak Dubinsky Kulemin
Frattin Anisimov MacArthur
Gardiner Vs Erixon Vs Percy
1st 1st 1st

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11-21-2012, 04:43 PM
  #649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Luongo is currently 33 with a possibility of being 34 if there's a full year lockout. Stop twisting the facts.
And this "power forward in his prime" scored 7 goals, while Luongo is a season removed from Vezina nomination. You're right, though, I think anyone could see the difference between them.
I was talking about comparing Rick Nash to Roberto Luongo in terms of trade value.

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Old
11-21-2012, 04:43 PM
  #650
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
I agree, and think we should also look at the supposed original asking price of

Bozak Dubinsky Kulemin
Frattin Anisimov MacArthur
Gardiner Vs Erixon Vs Percy
1st 1st 1st
Good call.

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