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CBA Negotiations III: Why Can't We All Just...Get Along?

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Old
11-21-2012, 12:21 PM
  #26
FreshPerspective
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Bettman and Daly are cancers yet they are the only people who have really moved off their original proposal until now.. Whereas fehr has been dicking around for almost a year

Versteeg is a clown
True...Fehr is a cancer cell as well...

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11-21-2012, 12:21 PM
  #27
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Old
11-21-2012, 12:21 PM
  #28
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The continued abuse towards the players continues to baffle me.

"How dare they dislike having their pay cut like every other person who has ever lived on this planet! Why aren't they overjoyed at their bosses!?"

If I'm a player I wouldn't want to see my pay cut either, especially if the owners don't plan on setting up a far more comprehensive revenue sharing program. Why should the players essentially be the only party that gives up money? People talk about how the players haven't budged, but it's not like the owners have indicated they plan on fixing the massive problems on their end. If they don't fix those problems we'll just be in the same place at the next CBA; locked out with the owners treating the players like a piggy bank while the players refuse to budge.

I know it's fun to get worked into an indignant rage whenever a player expresses their opinion, but looking at it rationally the owners are pretty ****** in all of this as well. It's really easy to see why the players would be pissed off. Without fixing things on the owners' end we're going through this lockout for nothing, and we'll do it again in a few years. The players need to realize they have to take a paycut, but until the owners do something to promote more financial stability on their own end I wouldn't consider it if I were a player.

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Old
11-21-2012, 12:23 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
The continued abuse towards the players continues to baffle me.

"How dare they dislike having their pay cut like every other person who has ever lived on this planet! Why aren't they overjoyed at their bosses!?"

If I'm a player I wouldn't want to see my pay cut either, especially if the owners don't plan on setting up a far more comprehensive revenue sharing program. Why should the players essentially be the only party that gives up money? People talk about how the players haven't budged, but it's not like the owners have indicated they plan on fixing the massive problems on their end. If they don't fix those problems we'll just be in the same place at the next CBA; locked out with the owners treating the players like a piggy bank while the players refuse to budge.

I know it's fun to get worked into an indignant rage whenever a player expresses their opinion, but looking at it rationally the owners are pretty ****** in all of this as well. If anything, they're worse. Without fixing things on their end we're going through this lockout for nothing, and we'll do it again in a few years.
True....this whole situation is a cancer....Pronger and Carter should be glad that the term cancer is now being applied to other people and situations

On that note...THIS IS A WAR AGAINST CANCER IN ALL ITS FORMS....PERIOD!

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Old
11-21-2012, 12:25 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
True....this whole situation is a cancer....Pronger and Carter should be glad that the term cancer is now being applied to other people and situations

On that note...THIS IS A WAR AGAINST CANCER IN ALL ITS FORMS....PERIOD!
Somewhere a harmless, benign tumor is reading this and shedding a tear.

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Old
11-21-2012, 12:59 PM
  #31
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I am sure @mouthpieceforBettman I mean Darren Dreger has to say.
Speaking of clowns. thats what Dreger is.


edit: Mckenzie has a multi tweet mention of the NHLPA's latest proposal. He ended it with this.

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
But if we don't get a negotiation out of this, we never will. OK, I'm done now. Back to your regularly scheduled nonsense.

I agree with him. if the NHL completely rejects the latest proposal we are done for the year. But hey its only the NHL who makes concessions right?

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Old
11-21-2012, 01:16 PM
  #32
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The deal is not at all postitive

It is no guarnateed linkage beyond year 1 ,, Wont fly with owners (Infact puts more risk owners way)

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11-21-2012, 01:29 PM
  #33
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didnt say it was perfect. but its a step in the right direction.
something many pro owner and bettman folks will probably have a hard time admitting.
Both sides still are going to have to give some in this process. something both sides havent been willing to do much of, despite what people think.

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Old
11-21-2012, 01:47 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
didnt say it was perfect. but its a step in the right direction.
Guaranteed de-linked from revenue cap limits and no true 50/50 split until the final year of the deal?

The only step this is in the direction of is a cliff.

At least Donny decided to show up on time for once... well, after he postponed the meeting prior.

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Old
11-21-2012, 02:30 PM
  #35
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NHL AND NHLPA FAIL TO GAIN TRACTION ON NEW CBA PROPOSAL

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409972



Who cares **** them the NHL and the NHLPA.......

The NHLPA are ****n greedy they keep saying they dont want much but they keep asking the NHL for more then they deserve..


Last edited by BleedOrange: 11-21-2012 at 02:37 PM.
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Old
11-21-2012, 02:38 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BleedOrange View Post
NHL AND NHLPA FAIL TO GAIN TRACTION ON NEW CBA PROPOSAL

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409972



Who cares **** them the NHL and the NHLPA.......


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Old
11-21-2012, 02:47 PM
  #37
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Same as it always is, owners have no intention on making a deal. They'll sit and wait for the players to make concession after concession. Hopefully that stops.

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11-21-2012, 02:53 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BleedOrange View Post
NHL AND NHLPA FAIL TO GAIN TRACTION ON NEW CBA PROPOSAL

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409972



Who cares **** them the NHL and the NHLPA.......

The NHLPA are ****n greedy they keep saying they dont want much but they keep asking the NHL for more then they deserve..
Let me see if I understand this correctly...

NHL makes offer moving towards players, players reject: PLAYERS ARE GREEDY

NHLPA makes offer moving towards NHL, NHL rejects: PLAYERS ARE GREEDY

So basically there's literally no way for the players to avoid having cabbage and tomatoes thrown at them no matter what they do?

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:08 PM
  #39
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Wonder if this clause will shut Cheesesteak up about the players not being greedy

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409992

Quote:
[b]The Upper Limit may not fall below 67.25 M[b] in any year of the agreement. This is half way between the 11/12 Upper Limit (64.3 M) and the 12/13 UL (70.2 M).

What if revenues go down? Or do they not care as long as they get their money?

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:10 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
They'll sit and wait for the players to make concession after concession. Hopefully that stops.
Except that is not at all what has happened during this entire process?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
Let me see if I understand this correctly...

NHL makes offer moving towards players, players reject: PLAYERS ARE GREEDY

NHLPA makes offer moving towards NHL, NHL rejects: PLAYERS ARE GREEDY

So basically there's literally no way for the players to avoid having cabbage and tomatoes thrown at them no matter what they do?
Can you recount the movement the PA made towards the NHL for me? I'm not seeing it. Forwarning: I have the rotten fruit in hand already.

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:10 PM
  #41
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Joe Yerdon ‏@JoeYerdonPHT
Hoo boy. RT @JoshYohe_Trib: Angry fan jumps Bettman press conference. Crazy stuff.

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
Bettman now in a discussion with a fan...cameras rolling. Tells fan the union hasn't been willing to negotiate.


Josh Yohe ‏@JoshYohe_Trib

Fan who confronted Bettman: Jaymes Hall from Lancaster PA. Flyers fan. Bettman actually handled it well.

in b4 classless flyers fans

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:11 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
What if revenues go down? Or do they not care as long as they get their money?
They have been betting on revenue going down or stagnating since the start - hence the INSISTENCE (even in this last "concession-laden" offer) on de-linkage.

Players just want to play... as long as they have 0 financial risk.

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:14 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Wonder if this clause will shut Cheesesteak up about the players not being greedy

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409992




What if revenues go down? Or do they not care as long as they get their money?
I never said they aren't "greedy," whatever that's supposed to mean. But you pro-PA people clearly fail to notice the owners are just as ****ing "greedy" as the players. You're blinded by this bizarre bias. Both sides are arguing about money, there's obviously greed there. It's not like the owners are acting out of concerned charity and good-will.

Shall we discuss how the wealthy owners don't want to establish more comprehensive revenue sharing that would help float the struggling franchises, even during revenue fluctuations, because it would mean less money for them?

What's the word for that? Oh right. "Greed."

I'm sorry I don't share your identical opinion. I'm also sorry that your blind bias against one side prevents you from seeing the whole picture. No, I won't "shut up" because I'm not incorrect and I'm trying to help you out by presenting the wider situation...instead of focusing on "PLAYYYERSSS EVIL."

Edit: by the way, wanting to maintain your current pay rate, one established by contract, isn't greed. They aren't asking for more money. It's natural for any person, anywhere, EVER, to want their income to at least remain steady. It's also perfectly natural to not want your income to drop. I don't get why that's "greedy."


Last edited by Beef Invictus: 11-21-2012 at 03:20 PM.
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Old
11-21-2012, 03:20 PM
  #44
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bottom line, the NHL will not budge from the 211m make whole

so the only way to get a deal the way I see is that Fehr, the deal he proposed will have to work minus the 182 extra the players were seeking.

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:25 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHILOUDELPHIA View Post
bottom line, the NHL will not budge from the 211m make whole

so the only way to get a deal the way I see is that Fehr, the deal he proposed will have to work minus the 182 extra the players were seeking.
In other words, as long as the PA swallows everything the NHL has proposed with no changes, and no negotiations, then the NHL will settle the lockout. That's fair.

And how in the blue hell does Bettman have the nerve to tell anyone that the players aren't interesting in negotiating?

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:33 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
And how in the blue hell does Bettman have the nerve to tell anyone that the players aren't interesting in negotiating?
How can someone think they have?

Facts:

They flat out refused to negotiate all through last season.

Until today they only tabled one single, terrible proposal redressed lazily a few times

Today (over 2 months into the lockout they prompted by refusing to negotiate beforehand) they presented their first real proposal... and it was still absolute garbage with linked cap language - call it "hybrid" if you want, it is still ******** and a well defined non-starter.

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:36 PM
  #47
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Bettman cont.: We're having a tough time understanding why what we have proposed and what we have proposed previously hasn't been accepted."
4:20pm - 21 Nov 12


Just forget it all. Stop debating greed, it's over. The league has made an offer and is telling the NHLPA take it or leave it. Fehr will never agree to that.

We can blame Fehr, Bettman, Jermey Jacobs and the other hard liners who have been attending these meetings.

It's a ****ing disgrace and this league is really a joke.

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:37 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
They aren't asking for more money.
Except every PA offer tabled to date has included immediate raises to their split - some even as high as 65% (like that hilariously unprofessional scratch paper proposal from awhile back).

Today's offer didn't have an immediate raise in it, but it did have a guarantee that the dollar split wouldn't decrease - essentially causing players to consume 0% of the risk of league depreciation from the lockout that they caused by refusing to negotiate until it was enacted. So... in a very, very, very loose definition of the term, I suppose you can call that a "step forward".

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:40 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
Edit: by the way, wanting to maintain your current pay rate, one established by contract, isn't greed. They aren't asking for more money. It's natural for any person, anywhere, EVER, to want their income to at least remain steady. It's also perfectly natural to not want your income to drop. I don't get why that's "greedy."
The players fighting to not take a pay cut, lose out on a years worth of salary and effectively make less than if they would have agreed to a pay cut. BRILLIANT! What will be really funny is when a team like Phoenix officially goes under, then the NHLPA loses 50 jobs.

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:54 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
The players fighting to not take a pay cut, lose out on a years worth of salary and effectively make less than if they would have agreed to a pay cut. BRILLIANT! What will be really funny is when a team like Phoenix officially goes under, then the NHLPA loses 50 jobs.


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