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Old
11-21-2012, 10:34 AM
  #776
WhiskeySeven
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
In 1970, north americans use to buy goods made in the USA/CANADA

The reason why people aren't making 100K a year on a assembly line is because someone else in the world could do it for a fraction.

Hockey players are not going to be replaced by cheaper foreign labour.
Just because some manufacturing jobs were shipped off to third-tier nations doesn't really make unions obsolete. Stop trusting corporations to look after your interests - if they're giving you money it's because you're making THEM money. It's a exchange in which they always win, why do people trust them with their pensions??

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I don't think Wing Wang Hoo of china is going to be replacing Brian Gionta any time soon, even if both are about the same size.
Hah.

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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
Each and every team should only be able and have to spend 50% of their own revenue, that would solve this unfairness. It would however create much bigger other problems, but then the big money teams wouldn't have to worry about sharing their profits.
How would it solve unfairness?

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Old
11-21-2012, 02:32 PM
  #777
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well it looks like the new offer from the NHLPA did NOT address any of the contract issues at all. Looks like the players still playing hard ball on those issues which means NO DEAL EVER. The other part sounds like " ok we will do it your way, BUT at OUR MONEY" so again NO DEAL.

WOW, I waited all day for THIS, YUK. at this point I feel it's the players holding things back.

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Old
11-21-2012, 02:42 PM
  #778
Et le But
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Quote:
josh gorges ‏@jgorges26

Another massive step in the owners direction and still gets rejected obvious they don't want a deal to get done #enoughsenough #theplayers
Gorges doesn't quite understand how negotiations work does he?

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Old
11-21-2012, 02:45 PM
  #779
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
In 1970, north americans use to buy goods made in the USA/CANADA

The reason why people aren't making 100K a year on a assembly line is because someone else in the world could do it for a fraction.

Hockey players are not going to be replaced by cheaper foreign labour.

I don't think Wing Wang Hoo of china is going to be replacing Brian Gionta any time soon, even if both are about the same size.
Complete fiction.

I said AUTO ASSEMBLY. Those jobs were lost to Japanese and German companies, not to Chinese companies. They were lost because management at GM, Ford, etc ran the companies into the ground, they couldn't compete on quality terms.

Japanese and German workers are actually better paid . . .

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Old
11-21-2012, 02:47 PM
  #780
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Gorges doesn't quite understand how negotiations work does he?
He's just a redneck

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Old
11-21-2012, 02:48 PM
  #781
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Gorges doesn't quite understand how negotiations work does he?
He is pointing out that there is no give and take with the owners, they just want to take, take, take.

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Old
11-21-2012, 02:50 PM
  #782
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
In 1970, north americans use to buy goods made in the USA/CANADA

The reason why people aren't making 100K a year on a assembly line is because someone else in the world could do it for a fraction.

Hockey players are not going to be replaced by cheaper foreign labour.

I don't think Wing Wang Hoo of china is going to be replacing Brian Gionta any time soon, even if both are about the same size.
Complete fiction.

I said AUTO ASSEMBLY. Those jobs were lost to Japanese and German companies, not to Chinese companies. They were lost because management at GM, Ford, etc ran nto the ground, they couloir compete on quality terms.

Japanese and German workers are actually better paid . . .

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Old
11-21-2012, 02:56 PM
  #783
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Complete fiction.

I said AUTO ASSEMBLY. Those jobs were lost to Japanese and German companies, not to Chinese companies. They were lost because management at GM, Ford, etc ran nto the ground, they couloir compete on quality terms.

Japanese and German workers are actually better paid . . .
Individually, yes the Japanese and Germans were better paid but they also produced more cars per man hour of work than in North America... so their labour costs per vehicle were lower.

Some would argue it was mismanagement and others would argue that it was the burden of outrageous cost defined benefit pension plans and medical insurance plans that sunk the big three.

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Old
11-21-2012, 02:57 PM
  #784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
He is pointing out that there is no give and take with the owners, they just want to take, take, take.
I think if you are writing cheques for $60 million dollars a year that qualifies as giving rather than taking

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:06 PM
  #785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
He is pointing out that there is no give and take with the owners, they just want to take, take, take.
They aren't negotiating from the same position of power.

Anyway, the first thing the players could do is stop whining on twitter when they don't get their way, it's embarrassing and makes everyone look bad. Let the union speak for you.

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:12 PM
  #786
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Originally Posted by HCH View Post
I think if you are writing cheques for $60 million dollars a year that qualifies as giving rather than taking
Misconception.

The owners do not pay player salaries, the fans do. The players are paid a certain fraction of total revenue, which stays fixed even if there is a new owner.

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:15 PM
  #787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HCH View Post
Individually, yes the Japanese and Germans were better paid but they also produced more cars per man hour of work than in North America... so their labour costs per vehicle were lower.

Some would argue it was mismanagement and others would argue that it was the burden of outrageous cost defined benefit pension plans and medical insurance plans that sunk the big three.
It is also ... Drumroll ... Inferior product design. Found on road dead, garbage motors, etc. Further, management is better paid at those less well run companies.

You should stop worshipping north American executives as if they are gods.


Last edited by DAChampion: 11-21-2012 at 03:38 PM.
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Old
11-21-2012, 03:37 PM
  #788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
The owners are investors, they shouldn't be getting 50% of the revenue to begin with. DA Champ is right, this corporatism is really disconcerting.
You're right, the owners should be getting far more than 50%, it's their money.

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:39 PM
  #789
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I was starting to get excited, but then I saw the part where the PA wants to be guaranteed nothing less than the money they made last year, so if NHL revenues go down, they'd be getting more than 50%.

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:43 PM
  #790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Gorges doesn't quite understand how negotiations work does he?
The amount of tweets from Gorges and Prust about this lockout is quite staggering. Prust's latest one is just a total joke and comes off as completely self-centered.

Brandon Prust ‏@BrandonPrust8
Gary bettman's autobiography is in stores now. It's titled 'how I destroyed a sport and a nation'

Really hoping Price and Subban continue to stay quiet about it.

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:43 PM
  #791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protest the Hero View Post
I was starting to get excited, but then I saw the part where the PA wants to be guaranteed nothing less than the money they made last year, so if NHL revenues go down, they'd be getting more than 50%.
Exactly

Not a 50/50 split that is being portrayed and puts all risk on owners financially

No linkage has already been shot down from League thru entire process ,, NHLPA continued pushing of it is a nonstarter

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:45 PM
  #792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
The amount of tweets from Gorges and Prust about this lockout is quite staggering. Prust's latest one is just a total joke and comes off as completely self-centered.

Brandon Prust ‏@BrandonPrust8
Gary bettman's autobiography is in stores now. It's titled 'how I destroyed a sport and a nation'

Really hoping Price and Subban continue to stay quiet about it.
Lets not forget Steeger saying that Bettman/Daly are cancers

And here is another

@MichaelDelZotto: @StuBickel take a 2, 5 and 10 on Gary.

Wont be long until we get another Chelios like threat

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:52 PM
  #793
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All this pissing from the players means their the desperate ones in this breakup.

The owners are still getting theirs on the side.

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:52 PM
  #794
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Originally Posted by MarkersMark View Post
All this pissing from the players means their the desperate ones in this breakup.

The owners are still getting theirs on the side.
^
I like this guy

Well put

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Old
11-21-2012, 04:00 PM
  #795
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Players are just a bunch of primadonnas

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Old
11-21-2012, 04:29 PM
  #796
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Originally Posted by Myron Gaines View Post
Players are just a bunch of primadonnas
If the players would get a fine of a 1 000 000$ for commenting publically im sure nobody would. Lol

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Old
11-21-2012, 04:33 PM
  #797
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Anyone else listen to Melnyk? He's become insufferable during all this.

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Old
11-21-2012, 04:39 PM
  #798
DAChampion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
The amount of tweets from Gorges and Prust about this lockout is quite staggering. Prust's latest one is just a total joke and comes off as completely self-centered.

Brandon Prust ‏@BrandonPrust8
Gary bettman's autobiography is in stores now. It's titled 'how I destroyed a sport and a nation'

Really hoping Price and Subban continue to stay quiet about it.
Gary Bettman is the only leader of any major league sports who has a lockout/strike every five or six years.

He's up to 3 or 4 now, I lose count.

We can only wish the NHL has the same labour peace as the MLB does in the post-Fehr era. That would be amazing. It's the best case scenario: record profits for owners, record salaries for players, excellent parity for the fans, no work stoppages for 18 years and counting.

By the way, of course Prust is self-centered, it's his career we're talking about.

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Old
11-21-2012, 04:47 PM
  #799
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
You might want to read what you highlighted. There is no reason for Prust to call out Molson as Molson is not one of the owners pushing this lockout. At worst Molson is considered a moderate who wants to play hockey. It has also been stated that Molson is even more annoyed by this whole lockout because he not only loses money with the Habs franchise, but beer sales are also down by a significant margin.

Prust called out one of the worst morons in the owners' group, no need for him to attack a man who wants hockey AND gave Prust a terrific contract.

I disagree with bsl quite often, but at least try and recognize what he is posting before trying to dismiss it. On this one he is actually not the one in need of "help"...
So, my assertion that Prust was too big of a ***** to call out the guy who writes his paychecks was shot down by restating the overgenerous contract that Molson gave him?

Brilliant. I gave the dumb reply the recognition it deserved because the poster lacks basic comprehension skills as he's evidenced time and time again. You may want to pay more attention to what's actually being said in the future.

And Molson is as big a snake oil salesman as any other owner in this league.

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Old
11-21-2012, 04:54 PM
  #800
DAChampion
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Originally Posted by Bill McNeal View Post
So, my assertion that Prust was too big of a ***** to call out the guy who writes his paychecks was shot down by restating the overgenerous contract that Molson gave him?

Brilliant. I gave the dumb reply the recognition it deserved because the poster lacks basic comprehension skills as he's evidenced time and time again. You may want to pay more attention to what's actually being said in the future.

And Molson is as big a snake oil salesman as any other owner in this league.
There is no clear reason for any us to have any problem with Geoff Molson. He's been a decent administrator for the Habs thus far and has recently completed a reform of the front office. He spends to the cap. Media communications are done reasonably well.

As far as I know, he is not one of the militant owners on the executive committee salivating over the prospect of an extended lockout, a la Jeremy Jacobs.

If you have any evidence Geoff Molson is selling snake oil, then post it.

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