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Old
11-21-2012, 09:05 AM
  #651
Hobnobs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
I'll take Jake Forbes, G for the second consecutive year, a personal favorite of mine, and a guy I think is underrated in the eyes of a lot of people. Here's the bio I created for him in last year's AAA Draft.

Read the bio and already like him more than Roman lol.

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11-21-2012, 11:41 AM
  #652
seventieslord
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Regina selects backup goalie Richard Brodeur.



Brodeur has a decent enough NHL career to merit selection now:

- He had a playoff for the ages, as he took Vancouver to the 1982 Stanley Cup finals, posting a .917 save percentage when the other goalies in the league averaged .883
- He finished 6th in Vezina/Allstar voting in 1982, and 8th in 1983, both with significant votes
- He was a workhorse goalie who was top-10 in minutes 5 times (2nd, 5th, 6th, 7th, 10th)
- He displayed excellent longevity, playing until he was 35. In his final season, only Billy Smith and Gilles Meloche were older among goalies, and only Salming, Robinson and Dionne among skaters.
- From 1981-1987 with Vancouver, Brodeur did not post gaudy personal numbers (though he was 6th in sv% in 1982 and well above average in 1981)but like Vancouver did to their goalies for the first 20 years of their existence, he was hung out to dry. He proved his capability by outperforming his backups by 9 sv% points (.872 to .863) over this 7-year period. This is actually identical to what another famous “good goalie on a bad team”, Gilles Meloche did for 7 years in California/Cleveland (.885-.876) and a little better than what he did in his next 7 years in Minnesota (.886-.881).
- Other starters for Vancouver over their pathetic first 20 years did this:
o 1971-73: +6 points over 3 seasons
o 1974-76: +9 points over 3 seasons
o 1977-78: +12 points over 2 seasons (this was our starter, Cesare Maniago, at age 38-39)
o 1979-80: +12 points over 2 seasons
o 1981-87: +9 points over 7 seasons (Brodeur)
o 1988-97: +5 points over 10 seasons (Kirk McLean)

That’s all respectable enough, but Brodeur was 28 when he became an NHL starter for the second half of his pro career. Prior to that he played 7 seasons in the WHA, 6 as a starter.

- He won the 1977 Avco Cup
- He was a 1975 Avco Cup finalist
- He was top-5 in minutes three times (1st, 5th, 5th)
- He led the league in sv% in 1978 and 1979
- He was a 2nd team all-star in 1979
- He was 2nd all-time in wins and playoff wins
- He was above the league sv% average every season except 1977, and outplayed his backups by 11 points from 1974-1979 (.890-.879)

In total he had a record of 296-289-72 in the regular season and 39-43 in the playoffs in 774 total NHL and WHA games from 1972-1988.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Pelletier
...Canucks fans, and for that matter early Nordiques fans, can tell you that the stats are not truly indicative of "King" Richard Brodeur's stellar play.

Brodeur played most of his NHL career in the early to mid 1980s. Those years featured horrible Canuck teams in the same division as Wayne Gretzky's high scoring Oilers, Lanny McDonald's Calgary Flames, Marcel Dionne's LA Kings and Dale Hawerchuk's Winnipeg Jets. That's a whole lot of offensive firepower gunning at the poor Canucks, who relied on Brodeur to keep them in most games, and sometimes just to keep the score respectable.

Brodeur was, literally, the Canucks saving grace. He was an exciting goalie to watch, pretty acrobatic and had lots and lots of shots against. His career 3.85 GAA his grossly inflated by the high scoring Smythe division of the 1980s. His win/loss record is very respectable considering how bad the Canucks were in comparison to their divisional foes.

Brodeur's career highlight, like that of most Canucks and their fans of that generation, was the improbable 1982 Cinderella run to the Stanley Cup finals. Brodeur backstopped the Canucks with an 11-6 record and a 2.70 GAA. While the Canucks were lucky to have the LA Kings upset Gretzky's Oilers, The Canucks handled their opposition quite handily until they reached the Finals. Once there, the dynastic New York Islanders tore apart the Canucks, winning easily in 4 games. Dubbed "King Richard" for his fine play during the '82 playoffs, Brodeur's fine play couldn't stack up against the likes of Bryan Trottier, Denis Potvin, Clark Gillies and most noteably - Mike Bossy.

...it wasn't until the 1987-88 season that Brodeur was ousted out of that spot as the Canucks starting goalie. The arrival of a young Kirk McLean meant that Brodeur was now being asked to be a backup....

Brodeur's career actually started 8 years before he made the NHL. Drafted by the Islanders in 1972, Brodeur opted to skip out on the NHL and jump at the chance to stay in his home province by playing with the Quebec Nordiques of the World Hockey Association. Brodeur ranks as one of the best goalies in the WHA history. His 165 wins ranks second all time, only 2 wins behind Joe Daley. Brodeur also set a record for wins in 1975-76 when he had 44. That same season the Nordiques won the Avco Cup championship, symbolic of WHA supremacy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canucks Legends
During that playoff, Brodeur flipped and flopped his way into the heads of opponents and teammates alike. Opposing shooters began thinking they couldn't beat The King and his lightning-quick reflexes.... We got good goaltending and we started believing in ourselves in a really good way", adds ********. "We felt they couldn't beat us, the other teams."... The Canucks took on the Calgary Flames in round one of the playoffs, riding the red-hot netminding of Brodeur to a three-game sweep. Brodeur allowed just 5 goals on 108 shots... "In one of those games, we outshot them significantly, recalls Paul Reinhart, "I seem to remember, though, it was a case of it just didn't matter. Brodeur could have turned backwards and the puck would have hit him in the back of the leg somehow. He was that good at the time."... In the conference final against Chicago, Brodeur turned in a spectacular 46-save performance as the Canucks beat the Blackhawks and ace netminder Tony Esposito 2-1 in double OT... Brodeur stoned Hawks' superstar Denis Savard on a breakaway not long into (game 5 of the semifinals). The Canucks were outshot 38-28 but managed to pull away for a 6-2 win and a berth in the final... Brodeur played more than 50 games in six of his eight seasons and won the team MVP award three times.

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Old
11-21-2012, 11:51 AM
  #653
tony d
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The Monsters select solid 2-way left winger Ryan Malone


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11-21-2012, 11:56 AM
  #654
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RW, Keith McCreary

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Old
11-21-2012, 12:46 PM
  #655
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In place of the invalid Dvorak pick, we'll select C Chris Gratton, who averaged .568 adjusted PPG over 1,091 NHL games, while being a strong physical force, and a solid two-way player.


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11-21-2012, 02:05 PM
  #656
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Jo-Jo Cavendish..... would be mine.. Sounds like a woman. LOL

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11-21-2012, 02:12 PM
  #657
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BudsBuster View Post
Jo-Jo Cavendish..... would be mine.. Sounds like a woman. LOL
I remember Jo-Jo! I also remember everything about the house on Cavendish... still, I don't recognize it when I drive by... it must be heavily renovated.

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11-21-2012, 02:17 PM
  #658
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billyshoe1721 View Post
in place of the invalid dvorak pick, we'll select c chris gratton, who averaged .568 adjusted ppg over 1,091 nhl games, while being a strong physical force, and a solid two-way player.

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

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11-21-2012, 03:23 PM
  #659
Mike Farkas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony d View Post
The Monsters select solid 2-way left winger Ryan Malone

One of my favorite players in the league. Saw him play one game (I think it was preseason) as a rookie and immediately bought his jersey. In the 2008 playoffs, Bugsy was doing man things for us in front of the net. Really selling out for us. It's a shame he left, but you offer a 7-year, lifetime contract to a "middle six" forward like that and you gotta take it...

Underrated: His hands. Quite a nifty stickhandler for a big man. Scored some nice shorties for the Pens early on.

Tough break: You never get to use him against the Islanders here. Not sure what the numbers say, but it felt like Malone dominated the Isles when he was in Pittsburgh.

Not nepotism: The guy that drafted Ryan in 1999 was his dad - the Pens head scout at the time. Many other scouts wanted to take Ryan in the 3rd round, but were overruled by his dad citing the need for goaltending. They took Sebastien Caron instead. When Ryan was still there in the fourth, Pittsburgh snatched him up.

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Old
11-21-2012, 03:40 PM
  #660
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
I'll take Jake Forbes, G for the second consecutive year, a personal favorite of mine, and a guy I think is underrated in the eyes of a lot of people. Here's the bio I created for him in last year's AAA Draft.

No you don't. That was my backup goalie, damnit.

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11-21-2012, 04:06 PM
  #661
seventieslord
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I was the first guy to take Malone. Took him in the 2010 AA draft as a 4th line winger for.... Greg Malone.

Which, I think, is the only time a father/son combo has been on the same line in one of these things. Other combos are just too far apart in the pecking order to even be taken in the same draft. Like the Appses, the Baileys, the Christians, the Stastnys, and the Gardners.

The Hulls are ATD 1st line players, but having them on the same line would be a nightmare.

The Hextalls are 1st and 4th line players in the ATD, so I doubt that would work.

the Holiks are a possibility.

Mark and Gordie would be a major stretch, because Mark is typically remembered as a defenseman, not a LW.

JP and Zach are pretty close to being all-time equals capable of playing on the same line... except they're both LWs.

Lynn and Lester Patrick are a possibility, if you play Lester as a center since he was a rover to start his career, but that's a stretch.

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11-21-2012, 04:12 PM
  #662
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I was the first guy to take Malone. Took him in the 2010 AA draft as a 4th line winger for.... Greg Malone.

Which, I think, is the only time a father/son combo has been on the same line in one of these things. Other combos are just too far apart in the pecking order to even be taken in the same draft. Like the Appses, the Baileys, the Christians, the Stastnys, and the Gardners.

The Hulls are ATD 1st line players, but having them on the same line would be a nightmare.

The Hextalls are 1st and 4th line players in the ATD, so I doubt that would work.

the Holiks are a possibility.

Mark and Gordie would be a major stretch, because Mark is typically remembered as a defenseman, not a LW.

JP and Zach are pretty close to being all-time equals capable of playing on the same line... except they're both LWs.

Lynn and Lester Patrick are a possibility, if you play Lester as a center since he was a rover to start his career, but that's a stretch.
You could put Mark on the LW on the PP. Would work. You could probably also get some Sutters or why not Morenz and Geoffrion.

How do you feel about the Gretzkys or the Fedorovs?


Last edited by jkrx: 11-21-2012 at 04:28 PM.
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Old
11-21-2012, 05:16 PM
  #663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkrx View Post
You could put Mark on the LW on the PP. Would work. You could probably also get some Sutters or why not Morenz and Geoffrion.

How do you feel about the Gretzkys or the Fedorovs?
I was only talking about fother/son combos, so no sutters, gretzkys, fedorovs, or morenz/geoffrion.

there are plenty of brother combos that are feasible.

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11-21-2012, 05:34 PM
  #664
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I was only talking about fother/son combos, so no sutters, gretzkys, fedorovs, or morenz/geoffrion.

there are plenty of brother combos that are feasible.
Well Geoffrion is Morenz son in law and Brandon or Brett might become good if we are lucky.

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11-21-2012, 08:06 PM
  #665
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Unless I missed something Hedberg is auto-skipped so I'll make my next pick and PM Tarheel.

We pick face-off specialist, Yanic Perreault, C


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11-21-2012, 08:18 PM
  #666
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Also, don't really have the time to read back, lol.

But what's with the hate for Roman? Is the main focal point how people have seen him live?

I just need to say, that the most awful player I've ever seen live was Hal Gill, I've been in attendance three times while he's been playing and dozens of times on television. He was -5 against the Panthers one night when he played on the Leafs, but other times is a rock solid defenseman.

Anybody care to elaborate why they think Cechmanek is not a good goaltender? His resume begs to differ.

Also, possibly shame on me for not reading all the banter, but I don't have the time to read it all

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11-21-2012, 09:43 PM
  #667
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The Macon Whoopee select Paul Maurice, coach.


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11-22-2012, 06:28 AM
  #668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
The Macon Whoopee select Paul Maurice, coach.

Homer!

Quote:
Also, don't really have the time to read back, lol.

But what's with the hate for Roman? Is the main focal point how people have seen him live?

I just need to say, that the most awful player I've ever seen live was Hal Gill, I've been in attendance three times while he's been playing and dozens of times on television. He was -5 against the Panthers one night when he played on the Leafs, but other times is a rock solid defenseman.

Anybody care to elaborate why they think Cechmanek is not a good goaltender? His resume begs to differ.

Also, possibly shame on me for not reading all the banter, but I don't have the time to read it all
His inconsistency and ability to let soft goals in. It was something he was highly criticized for in europe many times. This is something that stats doesnt show.

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11-22-2012, 08:15 AM
  #669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobnobs View Post
His inconsistency and ability to let soft goals in. It was something he was highly criticized for in europe many times. This is something that stats doesnt show.
I guess that's a lot of goalies as well, I watch Roberto Luongo upwards of 45 times a year, and he lets in some pretty inexcusable goals. Tommy Salo is also a culprit of it as well, I just think it's inevitable and it's a flaw shared by some pretty highly-regarded goaltenders.

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11-22-2012, 08:27 AM
  #670
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The Barracudas select a coach that can turn nothing into something, and win with a team of grinders... Ted Nolan

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11-22-2012, 10:41 AM
  #671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
I guess that's a lot of goalies as well, I watch Roberto Luongo upwards of 45 times a year, and he lets in some pretty inexcusable goals. Tommy Salo is also a culprit of it as well, I just think it's inevitable and it's a flaw shared by some pretty highly-regarded goaltenders.
Luongo has a bit of bad nerves when the game is on the line it seems. Salo could be out right putrid and Im not really a big fan of his work either but if you look at Chechmanek body of work you will see weak goal throughout his career. Not only weak but at very bad moments during the game. Like in the WC when Czech were pummeling USA (iirc) suddenly soft goal for the Americans on a soft shot on the SH and the americans took over and won.

He never got to be an olympian and no team wanted him after he left Kings. I remember an interview with a Swedish coach once when Sweden were facing the Czechs and his official strategy were "throw pucks at their goalie because you know he will let one soft shot go by"

He is not a terrible goalie he just had an affinity to screw up some pretty easy saves and that it usually happened when the game was on the line.

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11-22-2012, 01:00 PM
  #672
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Sorry for being away for the last couple of days.

To make up for my skipped picks I'll select D Yevgeny Paladiev and G Joe Daley

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11-22-2012, 02:33 PM
  #673
seventieslord
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right now I have just 4 yes votes for amnesty weekend, including my own. So it's currently business as usual. Unless/until I get two more yes votes.

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11-22-2012, 02:55 PM
  #674
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The thing about Cechmanek, is that if you look at his resume on paper - the Czech league awards (something that Mike Farkas valued Jiri Dopita highly for), the save percentages and the award voting - both Vezina and Hart - that he should have been taken a long time before this.

But we saw him, and I think we all agreed to one extent or another, that he wasn't as good as that on-paper resume suggested. And that's why he's going now instead of in the MLD.

I hated him. Thought he was a funny looking jerk (said playing my Leafs was boring, the truth hurt), thought his team made him look better than he was, laughed at his weak goals, reveled in his failures. Called him Chokemanek.

But here's the thing. He was so obviously and significantly better than Philly's other goalies from 2001 to 2003, outperforming their personal numbers (and, if you want to say sv% doesn't prove anything, team numbers too) drastically in that time. He blew them away. And these weren't scrub goalies. In an all-time sense they've proven to be afterthoughts, yes, but they were good enough to take a team to within a goal of a Stanley Cup final twice, and another time within a goal of game 7 of the finals, between 2000 and 2010. And Cechmanek was obviously and significantly better than them.

I know from watching him that we can all agree that the numbers lied to us. But the degree to which Mike is claiming they are lying, is just highly implausible. As fun as it is to read his takes on players, in the case of Cechmanek his words are both hyperbolic and partial (partisan?). Makes it sound like Philly happened to have "the three worst goalies of all-time" from 2001 to 2003.


Last edited by seventieslord: 11-22-2012 at 03:17 PM.
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11-22-2012, 03:05 PM
  #675
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
The thing about Cechmanek, is that if you look at his resume on paper - the Czech league awards (something that Mike Farkas valued Jiri Dopita highly for), the save percentages and the award voting - both Vezina and Hart - that he should have been taken a long time before this.

But we saw him, and I think we all agreed to one extent or another, that he wasn't as good as that on-paper resume suggested. And that's why he's going now instead of in the MLD.

I hated him. Thought he was a funny looking jerk (said playing my Leafs was boring, the truth hurt), thought his team made him look better than he was, laughed at his weak goals, reveled in his failures. Called him Chokemanek.

But here's the thing. He was so obviously and significantly better than Philly's other goalies from 2001 to 2003, outperforming their personal numbers (and, if you want to say sv% doesn't prove anything, team numbers too) drastically in that time. He blew them away. And these weren't scrub goalies. In an all-time sense they've proven to be afterthoughts, yes, but they were good enough to take a team to within a goal of a Stanley Cup final twice, and another time within a goal of game 7 of the finals, between 2000 and 2010. And Cechmanek was obviously and significantly better than them.

I know from watching him that we can all agree that the numbers lied to us. But the degree to which Mike is claiming they are lying, is just highly implausible. As fun as it is to read his takes on players, in the case of Cechmanek his words are both hyperbolic and partial. Makes it sound like Philly happened to have "the three worst goalies of all-time" from 2001 to 2003.
Yea thats why I wrote that he isnt a terrible goalie.

Edit: Although I disagree that goalies in the playoffs are some sort of proof of how good they are. Any above avergare goalie can catch fire for one playoffs and be great. Esche did it in 04 and Boucher (who I think its a bit better) did it in 01 and I wouldnt even call what they did taking a team to anything. They were competent and at times exceptional.


Last edited by Hobnobs: 11-22-2012 at 03:33 PM.
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