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Old
11-21-2012, 06:22 PM
  #26
poetryinmotion
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Originally Posted by NGARV View Post
You can't compare what someone is doing against kids to what the other is doing against men. Right now the value between Gally and RNH isn't close. Nuge put up an 0.84 ppg in the NHL at age 18 while being the smallest guy on the ice most nights. He was the consensus first overall pick who has progressed well.
I was saying that you gave a scouting report of Galchenyuk in that breakdown of RNH's strengths while he is 200lbs and not sub 180. Obviously RNH has more value and it's not close right now but Gally certainly has the potential to be as dominant whereas Dubynk will never come close to Price. If you trim the fat off the deal we give up a franchise player for an other and add an other potential franchise player on our end, if you will.

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11-21-2012, 06:49 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by sharks9 View Post
Not a chance from MTL. A severe downgrade in net for a slight upgrade in center, no thanks. We'd rather just wait for Galchenyuk to develop so we can have our #1C, #1D and #1G.
#1 D? who dat?

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11-21-2012, 06:55 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
I was saying that you gave a scouting report of Galchenyuk in that breakdown of RNH's strengths while he is 200lbs and not sub 180. Obviously RNH has more value and it's not close right now but Gally certainly has the potential to be as dominant whereas Dubynk will never come close to Price. If you trim the fat off the deal we give up a franchise player for an other and add an other potential franchise player on our end, if you will.
^please stop saying this garbage! how exactly do you know Dubnyk will "never" come close to Price? Dubnyk's outstanding record in 47 games played last year on a bad team might just suggest otherwise. and yes, i do believe Dubnyk at least has a legit chance to become as good as Price. Price didn't exactly set the world on fire last year either, and i think he's a good goalie!

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Old
11-21-2012, 06:56 PM
  #29
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id say its a pretty easy no from montreal

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Old
11-21-2012, 06:59 PM
  #30
poetryinmotion
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Originally Posted by ManByng View Post
^please stop saying this garbage! how exactly do you know Dubnyk will "never" come close to Price? Dubnyk's outstanding record in 47 games played last year on a bad team might just suggest otherwise. and yes, i do believe Dubnyk at least has a legit chance to become as good as Price. Price didn't exactly set the world on fire last year either, and i think he's a good goalie!
It's not garbage at all, he won't because he's older and Price already has a sizable skill advantage in nets not to mention accomplishments in and beyond the NHL. I can say with quasi certainty that their careers won't be close when all is said and done.

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Old
11-21-2012, 07:25 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by ManByng View Post
^please stop saying this garbage! how exactly do you know Dubnyk will "never" come close to Price? Dubnyk's outstanding record in 47 games played last year on a bad team might just suggest otherwise. and yes, i do believe Dubnyk at least has a legit chance to become as good as Price. Price didn't exactly set the world on fire last year either, and i think he's a good goalie!
Its not garbage its just the most likely outcome. Saying that Dubnyk will never come close to Price is like saying that Brendan Gallagher will never come close to Yakupov. There's no harm in stating the obvious.

Stop overrating Dubnyk.

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Old
11-21-2012, 08:01 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by tempest2i View Post
Ha! All that means is he's a) young enough that he's willing to waste a weekend off during the season and b) popular.

All-star selections don't have the luster or importance that they once had.
As much as I agree on the importance of the all-star game now, Price is still a great, young goaltender.

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Old
11-21-2012, 08:12 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by NGARV View Post
Just don't see it, I think he is a tad overrated. Good defensive team in front of him with good but not great stats. Obviously he is solid and without a doubt a number 1 but at this point not worth a major center degrade and a great prospect. If you think he is tell me why not your arbitrary opinions.
Lol @ Good defensive team in front of him. The good defensive team that finished 3rd last or the good defensive team who had minimum 3 defenseman with <100 games in the nhl , sometimes 4?

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Old
11-21-2012, 08:19 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by sharks9 View Post
Not a chance from MTL. A severe downgrade in net for a slight upgrade in center, no thanks. We'd rather just wait for Galchenyuk to develop so we can have our #1C, #1D and #1G.
Slight? I think at this moment it is more than slight

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Old
11-21-2012, 08:21 PM
  #35
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Objectively value-wise I can see how this would be fair. But when looking at individual team situations, it's a completely non-sensical trade.

Montreal
Price is the back-bone of their team, the primary reason that team can compete in most of their games. Although some may be over-stating the actual statistical difference between him and Dubnyk, it's still large enough to make a huge difference in terms of their compete level.
Galchenyuk is likely not going to be as offensively dynamic as RNH, but the kid has great size, great 2-way ability, and is likely their #1 C for the future. The difference between him and RNH in a few years time isn't enough to off-set the difference between Dubnyk and Price.

Oilers
RNH is the backbone of the Oilers' offense heading forward. He's the offensively gifted #1C the team's been sorely missing since they traded Weight. As good as Galchenyuk is, we've seen players in his mould (albeit not as offensively talented) before (Horcoff, Stoll in their offensive primes). With the type of wingers the team's assembled, they need a dynamic playmaker like RNH to feed them the puck.
Dubnyk is not a bad goalie - his stats are pretty middle-of-the-pack when you compare him to other NHL goalies. The difference between him and Price is quite significant, but for the Oilers - a team that doesn't really rely on goalies to win the games - the difference may not be enough to cause a shift in outcomes (they're more likely to win/lose on accord their D (poor or just steady enough) or forwards (all-world scoring or not enough) than their goaltending (although 2006 there was a different story).
Klefbom+2nd is the kicker here. The Oilers' #1 defense prospect outside of Schultz is Klefbom - perhaps the most complete all-around defenseman in their system. Losing him, along with a 2nd, is just enough of a price for the Oilers to say no, even with the value difference between RNH+Dubnyk and Galchenyuk+Price

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Old
11-21-2012, 08:22 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by monkeywrench View Post
Slight? I think at this moment it is more than slight
Hard to tell what the difference would be as Galy hasn't had a chance to play an NHL game. But on paper i would agree with you.

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Old
11-21-2012, 08:40 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
Its not garbage its just the most likely outcome. Saying that Dubnyk will never come close to Price is like saying that Brendan Gallagher will never come close to Yakupov. There's no harm in stating the obvious.

Stop overrating Dubnyk.
Goalies develop radically different from players. There's always a chance a mediocre or even scrub goalie can become an allstar. See Tim Thomas

That virtually never happens for a regular player. They might become a solid player late in their career but becoming an allstar is ridiculously rare.

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Old
11-21-2012, 08:46 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
I was saying that you gave a scouting report of Galchenyuk in that breakdown of RNH's strengths while he is 200lbs and not sub 180. Obviously RNH has more value and it's not close right now but Gally certainly has the potential to be as dominant whereas Dubynk will never come close to Price. If you trim the fat off the deal we give up a franchise player for an other and add an other potential franchise player on our end, if you will.
Common man! Gally is a top prospect and all, but he will never reach nuge status. The nuge is on another level.

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Old
11-21-2012, 08:46 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
Goalies develop radically different from players. There's always a chance a mediocre or even scrub goalie can become an allstar. See Tim Thomas

That virtually never happens for a regular player. They might become a solid player late in their career but becoming an allstar is ridiculously rare.
TT at age 35 is an anomaly. Its rare and i can't think of any player going from scrub to star in their mid-30's. But don't pretend that forwards never develop later in their career from scrub to star. See Martin St. Louis as a prime example of a player who went from scrub to star at age 27/28.

The bottom line is that the chances of DD catching up to Price is the same as Brendan Gallagher catching up to Yakupov at some point in their NHL career. ie. slim to none.

Like Yakupov, Price has a pedigree. CHL goalie of the year. WJHC MVP. AHL playoff MVP. NHL All-star multiple times... As for Dubnyk? Nada.

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Old
11-21-2012, 08:54 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
It's not garbage at all, he won't because he's older and Price already has a sizable skill advantage in nets not to mention accomplishments in and beyond the NHL. I can say with quasi certainty that their careers won't be close when all is said and done.
Dubnyk is 26 and Price is 25 and they were taken one draft apart from each other...pretty weak! but it's your opinion, and that's ok.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
Its not garbage its just the most likely outcome. Saying that Dubnyk will never come close to Price is like saying that Brendan Gallagher will never come close to Yakupov. There's no harm in stating the obvious.

Stop overrating Dubnyk.
nobody here is "overrating" the guy, if anything, opposing team's fans are underrating him! Oiler fans are being realistic enough with this guy that we can see by just watching him play, that he could become great or just average but we won't find that out until he plays the majority of the games the next few years. and the likely the outcome based on what? like i have mentioned many times in the past, if you look at Dubnyk's stats the last 2 years on a bad team, it goes against what you are trying to pass off as fact. al the arrows seem to be pointing up with this guy, and despite what we fans think, there is always a chance that Gallagher could become as good as Yak is perceived to become, right? isn't that why we have a draft in the first place?

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Old
11-21-2012, 08:59 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by ManByng View Post
nobody here is "overrating" the guy, if anything, opposing team's fans are underrating him! Oiler fans are being realistic enough with this guy that we can see by just watching him play, that he could become great or just average but we won't find that out until he plays the majority of the games the next few years. and the likely the outcome based on what? like i have mentioned many times in the past, if you look at Dubnyk's stats the last 2 years on a bad team, it goes against what you are trying to pass off as fact. al the arrows seem to be pointing up with this guy, and despite what we fans think, there is always a chance that Gallagher could become as good as Yak is perceived to become, right? isn't that why we have a draft in the first place?
If you are conceding that Gallagher could become as good as Yak then i suppose that in an equally unlikely scenario, DD could become as good as Price.

But in all reality, neither will likely come true and on that basis the Habs cannot downgrade their goaltending - an position that they have built their team around.

Imagine the Habs with a Dubnyk / Budaj tandem. We would be guaranteed to be drafting #1 overall (save for a lottery surprise).

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Old
11-21-2012, 09:01 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
TT at age 35 is an anomaly. Its rare and i can't think of any player going from scrub to star in their mid-30's. But don't pretend that forwards never develop later in their career from scrub to star. See Martin St. Louis as a prime example of a player who went from scrub to star at age 27/28.

The bottom line is that the chances of DD catching up to Price is the same as Brendan Gallagher catching up to Yakupov at some point in their NHL career. ie. slim to none.

Like Yakupov, Price has a pedigree. CHL goalie of the year. WJHC MVP. AHL playoff MVP. NHL All-star multiple times... As for Dubnyk? Nada.
you don't know that! i think you might be underrating you own player Gallagher....have you seen how well he's doing in Hamilton? 6 goals 9 points and 31 penalty minutes in 14 games, AND leading his team in scoring at age 20!! all this from a supposedly "small" player. any reason why he can't score in the NHL like Yakupov might?

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Old
11-21-2012, 09:02 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
If you are conceding that Gallagher could become as good as Yak then i suppose that in an equally unlikely scenario, DD could become as good as Price.

But in all reality, neither will likely come true and on that basis the Habs cannot downgrade their goaltending - an position that they have built their team around.

Imagine the Habs with a Dubnyk / Budaj tandem. We would be guaranteed to be drafting #1 overall (save for a lottery surprise).
fair enough, but Gallagher sure is doing well on the farm!

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Old
11-21-2012, 09:05 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by ManByng View Post
Dubnyk is 26 and Price is 25 and they were taken one draft apart from each other...pretty weak! but it's your opinion, and that's ok.
And 170 games difference. That's quite significant for a one year gap in goaltenders. Like I said, there is no chance for Dubynk to catch up unless he turns into some kind of Tim Thomas. Good luck with that.

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Old
11-21-2012, 09:14 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by ManByng View Post
#1 D? who dat?
Subban's definitely a #1D.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeywrench View Post
Slight? I think at this moment it is more than slight
At this moment yes, but I think in their careers RNH will just be slightly better than Galchenyuk.

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Old
11-21-2012, 09:49 PM
  #46
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Galchenyuk has the potential to be equal or better than RNH. He should at least be a decent 1st liner in the future.

Price is worth 10 times the other pieces included in the deal from Edmonton.

While RNH has more value than Galchenyuk, this has the potential to change over time, while Price should pretty much stay the deal breaker in the future, unless Klefbom becomes a legit N.1 defenseman, which is unlikely.

Easy no from the Habs.

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Old
11-21-2012, 10:00 PM
  #47
ManByng
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Originally Posted by ManByng View Post
Dubnyk is 26 and Price is 25 and they were taken one draft apart from each other...pretty weak! but it's your opinion, and that's ok.
Quote:
Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
And 170 games difference. That's quite significant for a one year gap in goaltenders. Like I said, there is no chance for Dubynk to catch up unless he turns into some kind of Tim Thomas. Good luck with that.
if you mean catch up games wise, perhaps, unless Price get's injured gawd forbid. if you mean catch up to becoming as good as Price is, why can't he? who says he won't play say 65 games the next full season we have and put up better numbers on a team that could up swing any time now? not impossible for him to put up a 38 win season like Price did is it?

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Old
11-21-2012, 11:08 PM
  #48
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Easy no from montreal. Price trumps any other piece in this deal easily. but to those saying Gally has comparable potential to RNH....give me a break.

Gally is already 6'2 205 and he's not dominating Juniors...hes among the top scores playing against boys

RNH can barely grow facial hair still..is sitting at 185 right now and he's 3rd in AHL scoring against men..Gally would have to make some major jumps in the future while RNH plateaus for Gally to be on RNH's level.. Its like trying to compare Huberdeau to Taylor Hall...not even close

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Old
11-21-2012, 11:56 PM
  #49
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I think the value is fair but neither team does it because Montreal won't trade Price or Galchenyuk and the Oilers won't trade RNH.

It would be stupid for Montreal to trade Price but we should be able to get Luongo for cheap enough, so even that wouldn't be the end of the world. I wouldn't want Dubnyk, tbh, I'd rather have someone else.

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Old
11-22-2012, 12:17 AM
  #50
poetryinmotion
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Easy no from montreal. Price trumps any other piece in this deal easily. but to those saying Gally has comparable potential to RNH....give me a break.

Gally is already 6'2 205 and he's not dominating Juniors...hes among the top scores playing against boys

RNH can barely grow facial hair still..is sitting at 185 right now and he's 3rd in AHL scoring against men..Gally would have to make some major jumps in the future while RNH plateaus for Gally to be on RNH's level.. Its like trying to compare Huberdeau to Taylor Hall...not even close
Oh no? I'd check that statement.

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