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Luongo Thread: Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For (Mod Warning in OP)

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11-21-2012, 08:46 PM
  #1001
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
You guys seem to remember Burke from his days there...tell me, when did he ever overpay for personal reasons? Burke has been asked that question by every local sports statio. and has laughed loudly at the notion of overpaying to save his job. If that is what you are counting on......
It's not just his job on the line, it's the betterment of the franchise. If Toronto makes no forward progress the next time the NHL resumes they are going to have difficulty attracting talent, as well as possibly retaining their top personnel.

Will Lupul want to commit semi-longterm if the Leafs have another awful season? If Lupul walks does Kessel commit longterm without any front line talent to work with?

Toronto has more pending UFA's over the next couple years than every other team in the NHL. Having some success in the next 18 months could go a long way to keeping the top talent in town. I have a hard time believeing this won't play into Burke's decision here.

Luongo is arguably the biggest impact player available right now, especially for a team with Toronto's makeup. Burke has always shown an affinity for impact players and doesn't hesitate moving quantity to secure those quality assets.

If Gillis is willing to accept a quantity for quality package, this very well could get done. And it appears Gillis has already accepted the fact this trade won't improve his hockey club...

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11-21-2012, 08:47 PM
  #1002
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Why are we arguing about which GM has the other GM up against a wall? Haven't we basically agreed on a deal that's worth it for both sides?

i.e Kadri + Kulemin + 1st or Lupul + Blacker + 1st?

I'd be content with either of those returns. We aren't getting Kessel, and Gardiner doesn't even really fit a need for us at the moment.

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11-21-2012, 08:48 PM
  #1003
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You have for sure been better then most if not all, I think some get frustrated by some of the low ball offers. I agree that TO does not have the pieces to put us over the top at this moment. That is not to say they don't have pieces we can't use to help us, we just have to learn that it will come in pieces that will help in the future, and maybe via another trade.
Thanks racer but if Gillis is at all serious about his price, it is miles out of our range. I truly hope Van gets a good return...don't tell anyone, the Nucks are my team in the West.

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11-21-2012, 08:57 PM
  #1004
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
It's not just his job on the line, it's the betterment of the franchise. If Toronto makes no forward progress the next time the NHL resumes they are going to have difficulty attracting talent, as well as possibly retaining their top personnel.
I don't think fans of other teams appreciate what Lu did here for this franchise and how big a part he has been to our recent success. We know he could turn the Leafs fortunes around, their fans and media just haven't figured it out. Knowing Burke, he won't figure it out either.

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11-21-2012, 09:09 PM
  #1005
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I don't think fans of other teams appreciate what Lu did here for this franchise and how big a part he has been to our recent success. We know he could turn the Leafs fortunes around, their fans and media just haven't figured it out. Knowing Burke, he won't figure it out either.
I know Luongo would make us better..no arguement. I also know i could get home faster in a private jet, i just can't afford it. I guess it goes both ways, Nucks fans have been blessed with playoff caliber teams for so long you don't understand what it's like for us. After years of crap, we finally have some better pieces. It's tough when all you hear is "we will give you our 33 year old goalie...but your top 6 guys are crap, your prospects are crap...give us your best young players and picks or you don't get our elite goalie we don"t need anymore". Bottom line for me, as much as i want Luongo and as much as i want the playoffs, if the price is a detriment to our long term future than it's status quo for me and i'll support Burke for not selling out.


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11-21-2012, 09:25 PM
  #1006
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Bottom line for me, as much as i want Luongo and as much as i want the playoffs, if the price is a detriment to our long term future than it's status quo for me and i'll support Burke for not selling out.
Getting Luongo isn't just about making the playoffs, it's about turning the franchise around. Players want to play in front of him, he sets the standard for work ethic and professionalism in your organization and he makes other players better. You're not just getting some good goalie to throw in their for a few seasons, you'd truly be getting a franchise player. I don't think you appreciate how valuable that is for a young team. He'll leave a mark on your good young players well after he's gone, he'll show them how to get to an elite level.

I understand not wanting to trade Gardiner, I wouldn't either. I don't understand the take it or leave it attitude or the lack of urgency. This guy will do more for your franchise then any one of those young guys will, unless Gardiner really turns into that franchise defensemen.

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11-21-2012, 09:32 PM
  #1007
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Getting Luongo isn't just about making the playoffs, it's about turning the franchise around. Players want to play in front of him, he sets the standard for work ethic and professionalism in your organization and he makes other players better. You're not just getting some good goalie to throw in their for a few seasons, you'd truly be getting a franchise player. I don't think you appreciate how valuable that is for a young team. He'll leave a mark on your good young players well after he's gone, he'll show them how to get to an elite level.

I understand not wanting to trade Gardiner, I wouldn't either. I don't understand the take it or leave it attitude or the lack of urgency. This guy will do more for your franchise then any one of those young guys will, unless Gardiner really turns into that franchise defensemen.
For me it's not take it or leave it. It's here is as high ad i'm willing to go. Unfortunately my highest doesn't seem to be near good enough...so that's it i guess. As far as Gardiner...there have been guys who have compared him to Niedermeyer....guess what one of the black marks on the Leafs past is...yup, trading the pick that ends up being Niedermeyer.

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11-21-2012, 09:39 PM
  #1008
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
For me it's not take it or leave it. It's here is as high ad i'm willing to go. Unfortunately my highest doesn't seem to be near good enough...so that's it i guess. As far as Gardiner...there have been guys who have compared him to Niedermeyer....guess what one of the black marks on the Leafs past is...yup, trading the pick that ends up being Niedermeyer.
Like I said you have always been one of the best if not the best. So what is it you think is max you can give up? And even in that is it too much future or too much current roster? Is four pieces too much? Is three too much? Do we get more if we don't take Lupul or Kadri? Or even Bozak?

I think we should look at the package Gillis wanted, and go what makes it too much.

Bozak
Frattin
Gardiner
1st

Is it just Gardiner? I mean the first now is not the top 5, so it's value is probably way down right? So if we took Percy or Finn is that better? Or is it still too much, from your perspective.

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11-21-2012, 09:41 PM
  #1009
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I know Luongo would make us better..no arguement. I also know i could get home faster in a private jet, i just can't afford it. I guess it goes both ways, Nucks fans have been blessed with playoff caliber teams for so long you don't understand what it's like for us. After years of crap, we finally have some better pieces. It's tough when all you hear is "we will give you our 33 year old goalie...but your top 6 guys are crap, your prospects are crap...give us your best young players and picks or you don't get our elite goalie we don"t need anymore". Bottom line for me, as much as i want Luongo and as much as i want the playoffs, if the price is a detriment to our long term future than it's status quo for me and i'll support Burke for not selling out.
completely fair

but remember that a huge percentage of us here have been Canuck fans for the long haul ...meaning we suffered through the 80s, the 90s (like you, hope early then bitter disappointment as it fell apart), and the early 00s before being blessed w the current team (and some go back to the 70s!)

So we are no strangers to the agony of Charlie-Brown-fandom, and it in fact makes us equally (if not more) paranoid and desperate that the moves we make now are the right ones, insofar as we know that the promised land is close. Arguably this Luongo trade is the single most important move in franchise history in terms of impacting cup or no cup ... and we know that just 2 short years out (even sooner), and we could find ourselves very quickly on the long slide back down to osbcurity, and chasing after the Messiers and Tikannens of the world ...

arguably it drives a greater urgency than your understandable need to hold onto the few golden building blocks ... precariously teetering near the top while bruin and hawk fans hurl barbs and alberta fans snicker from nearby bogs is very trying on the nerves... we have to make the right move with this trade. HAVE TO.

and with that, another scotch ...
cheers

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Old
11-21-2012, 09:42 PM
  #1010
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
For me it's not take it or leave it. It's here is as high ad i'm willing to go. Unfortunately my highest doesn't seem to be near good enough...so that's it i guess. As far as Gardiner...there have been guys who have compared him to Niedermeyer....guess what one of the black marks on the Leafs past is...yup, trading the pick that ends up being Niedermeyer.
I'm not saying you should trade Gardiner, but sometimes the opposite happens too. Burke could have trade Schenn and Kadri for Tavares-it might have ended up like the Kessel trade with the Leafs getting one solid piece, but losing two solid pieces. But in the end they missed out on a franchise player for two players who have underachieved since. Just because a team's been burned in the past(It was originally Vancouver's pick that was used to pick Milan Lucic) doesn't mean one should never give up potential for something the roster needs badly.

And again, I'm not asking for Gardiner. I don't think he's as untouchable as everyone says he is, but I know that no good can come out of discussing it.

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11-21-2012, 11:31 PM
  #1011
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Why are we arguing about which GM has the other GM up against a wall? Haven't we basically agreed on a deal that's worth it for both sides?

i.e Kadri + Kulemin + 1st or Lupul + Blacker + 1st?

I'd be content with either of those returns. We aren't getting Kessel, and Gardiner doesn't even really fit a need for us at the moment.
If Gardiner isn't a fit, how are Kadri and Kulemin fits on this team?

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Old
11-21-2012, 11:36 PM
  #1012
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If Gardiner isn't a fit, how are Kadri and Kulemin fits on this team?
Kulemin adds physicality and plays RW. Kadri is a skilled player that could do well playing on our 2nd line slipping passes to Booth/Kesler.

Obviously I'd prefer the Lupul package, but there has been a great debate going on for the past few pages as to which is better.

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11-21-2012, 11:53 PM
  #1013
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Kulemin adds physicality and plays RW. Kadri is a skilled player that could do well playing on our 2nd line slipping passes to Booth/Kesler.

Obviously I'd prefer the Lupul package, but there has been a great debate going on for the past few pages as to which is better.
Did I just see Kadri suggested to play on the Canucks' second line? He can't even hold a spot for large portions with the Leafs. Any deal with Kadri being a centerpiece is a huge failure as a return. Kulemin isn't even that physical, unless you think 97 soft hits make a difference throughout the course of a Regular Season.

Kadri is a tweener as well as unproven. Besides Kassian would play on the second line long before Kadri would even get a sniff. Wouldn't even be surprised to see Kadri not make the Canucks and spend the season with the Wolves because I don't see him on the third line anytime soon either if we got him.

Kulemin is a tweener, and inconsistent. If I wanted one of those, I'd just look over at Raymond. With Higgins, Hansen, Booth, Kassian, Raymond, and Malhotra, I fail to see how Kulemin is useful.

Really not sure what to think about the Lupul deal.

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