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Ownership Cluster**** Thread: NHL and GJ, Put Up or Shut Up!

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Old
11-19-2012, 11:20 PM
  #376
TheLegend
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Interview this evening with Joyce Clark on revised AMF courtesy of KPHO Channel 5 (PHX).

http://www.kpho.com/video?autoStart=...Ia03hU.twitter

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11-20-2012, 09:08 AM
  #377
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Originally Posted by TheLegend View Post
Interview this evening with Joyce Clark on revised AMF courtesy of KPHO Channel 5 (PHX).

http://www.kpho.com/video?autoStart=...Ia03hU.twitter
Hopefully Joyce can help pull it off before she exits. She sounded pretty positive but we've heard that before.

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11-20-2012, 09:50 AM
  #378
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Hopefully Joyce can help pull it off before she exits. She sounded pretty positive but we've heard that before.
Synopsis? I click on it and it takes me to the kpho main page.

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11-20-2012, 04:46 PM
  #379
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Synopsis? I click on it and it takes me to the kpho main page.
Basically says there will be a vote next Tuesday, optimistic it will pass and urged the incoming council not to attempt to sabotage this because they are new and are not going to have a better grasp on all the workings than those who have been trying to get this done for 3 years now.

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11-20-2012, 08:49 PM
  #380
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Is anyone willing and able to provide a summary of today's COG events? I'd really appreciate some Cliff's.

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11-20-2012, 09:42 PM
  #381
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Is anyone willing and able to provide a summary of today's COG events? I'd really appreciate some Cliff's.
I was at the meeting for an unrelated school assignment, but unfortunately I needed to leave before the topic of the coyotes came up. If you're looking for a good summary of the events though and what position the council members took regarding the AMF, you could try looking at Sonu Munshi, the AZ republic reporter's twitter account.

https://twitter.com/smunshi

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11-20-2012, 10:01 PM
  #382
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Basically the vote moves forward to next week with the same drama as last meetings but the vote I am worried about did not say anything so it could pass 4-2 or end 3-3...just more face palming

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11-20-2012, 11:30 PM
  #383
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Tie goes to the mayor, right? Scruggsie has gone completely 180 and now wants the deal dead, so a tie is a loss for Yotes fans, yeah?

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11-20-2012, 11:33 PM
  #384
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Tie goes to the mayor, right? Scruggsie has gone completely 180 and now wants the deal dead, so a tie is a loss for Yotes fans, yeah?
3-3 assumes the mayor vote so it delays it. Phil would have been the 7th vote so now only 6 are voting till January....could be wrong but again Knaack did not say anything so time to send flowers.

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11-20-2012, 11:54 PM
  #385
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sonu munshi‏@smunshi

Just spoke with Jamison: we fully intend to buy the team but we are waiting for the vote. Then we'll move as quickly as we possibly can.


Retweeted by Sarah McLellan

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Old
11-21-2012, 04:49 AM
  #386
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Does anyone here think Glendale won't **** this up?

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11-21-2012, 05:07 AM
  #387
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Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
Does anyone here think Glendale won't **** this up?
I have a dreadful feeling that someone who previously was a yes vote will suddenly have an inner moral conflict and vote no, due to the circumstances of the vote. "The new council should decide this. It's important!"

And lo, every criticism leveled at Glendale became true

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11-21-2012, 08:10 AM
  #388
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After three years I've become numb to getting my hopes up. Whatever happens, expect delays

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11-21-2012, 08:24 AM
  #389
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I have a dreadful feeling that someone who previously was a yes vote will suddenly have an inner moral conflict and vote no, due to the circumstances of the vote. "The new council should decide this. It's important!"

And lo, every criticism leveled at Glendale became true
Sorry to intrude, but I happen to think that the city council will approve this on November 27.

However, I do get the sense that "inner moral conflict" seems to be emerging as city administrators and council members are seeing the reality of substantial staffing cuts. Skeete (interim city manager) is now advising against the deal (which he negotiated), which is very odd. It is probably largely because he is concerned about his job security (the new mayor and council majority appear to oppose the deal), but it might also be difficult for him to stomach the immediate staff cuts that he will have to impose to afford the Jamison AMF payments.

I'm not sure what will happen after city council approves the lease, but with Skeete losing his nerve and the new council coming in soon, the Coyotes' sale and lease signing will have to be done expeditiously.

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11-21-2012, 03:42 PM
  #390
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Sorry to intrude, but I happen to think that the city council will approve this on November 27.

However, I do get the sense that "inner moral conflict" seems to be emerging as city administrators and council members are seeing the reality of substantial staffing cuts. Skeete (interim city manager) is now advising against the deal (which he negotiated), which is very odd. It is probably largely because he is concerned about his job security (the new mayor and council majority appear to oppose the deal), but it might also be difficult for him to stomach the immediate staff cuts that he will have to impose to afford the Jamison AMF payments.

I'm not sure what will happen after city council approves the lease, but with Skeete losing his nerve and the new council coming in soon, the Coyotes' sale and lease signing will have to be done expeditiously.
AFIAC Whileee you're never an intrusion here.

However (I just posted this thought on BOH) I don't think Skeete is losing his nerve as much as he can't predict where the city's finances will actually be when the sales tax increase ends five years down the road and here he's negotiating a long term obligation.

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11-21-2012, 08:27 PM
  #391
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Yeah, I don't think anyone here is adverse to folks who think that the Coyotes relocating is a smart move for a struggling league or folks who thing Glendale is making a poor decision with the AMF. It's the drive-by posters who feel the need to tell us that we don't "deserve" an NHL team or that this area is a horrible market with no upside. Those are the intruders.

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11-21-2012, 09:04 PM
  #392
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Yeah, I don't think anyone here is adverse to folks who think that the Coyotes relocating is a smart move for a struggling league or folks who thing Glendale is making a poor decision with the AMF. It's the drive-by posters who feel the need to tell us that we don't "deserve" an NHL team or that this area is a horrible market with no upside. Those are the intruders.
They have the business board for that, which is relatively unmoderated. Don't go there hoping for an equal voice.

At least we have the potential for closure if this vote goes bad, though probably not what everyone is hoping for.

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11-21-2012, 10:28 PM
  #393
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AFIAC Whileee you're never an intrusion here.

However (I just posted this thought on BOH) I don't think Skeete is losing his nerve as much as he can't predict where the city's finances will actually be when the sales tax increase ends five years down the road and here he's negotiating a long term obligation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
Yeah, I don't think anyone here is adverse to folks who think that the Coyotes relocating is a smart move for a struggling league or folks who thing Glendale is making a poor decision with the AMF. It's the drive-by posters who feel the need to tell us that we don't "deserve" an NHL team or that this area is a horrible market with no upside. Those are the intruders.
Thanks.

My two cents, for what it's worth... I think that the NHL could have made this deal work long ago, and I would have been happy for the City of Glendale and the Coyotes fans. The NHL is the main beneficiary of the COG's decision to back them in the bankruptcy, thereby helping Bettman fend off Balsillie. Subsequently, they've pledged $50 million, along with very generous lease offers. This allowed the NHL to keep the team in the Phoenix market and deal with the Atlanta fiasco via a Winnipeg relocation. But now the COG is up against severe financial constraints and an adverse political and legal climate. If the NHL slashed the selling price to close to market value (say $100 million) they could allow Jamison to give back a big chunk on the lease, and this deal would have been done long ago.

I have to say that I'm a bit surprised that most Coyotes fans and the COG don't seem to be willing to take Bettman and the NHL to task on this.

Finally, my comments are generally focused on what I think will happen, not what I hope will happen. So, for example, I thought that the Hulsizer lease was a "fail" from the start. I thought that the Jamison lease would have had a very good chance of sailing through (perhaps with a few tweaks) 12 months ago and said so at the time, but Jamison and the NHL lost that window of opportunity by late Spring when the budget crisis became apparent in Glendale, and then the elections took hold. Now, I think it faces a real uphill struggle because there are so many options to delay or defeat it. I believe that it is now critical for the NHL and Jamison to make a grand gesture to show their gratitude to Glendale, and push a compromise deal through.

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11-21-2012, 11:17 PM
  #394
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Thanks.

My two cents, for what it's worth... I think that the NHL could have made this deal work long ago, and I would have been happy for the City of Glendale and the Coyotes fans. The NHL is the main beneficiary of the COG's decision to back them in the bankruptcy, thereby helping Bettman fend off Balsillie. Subsequently, they've pledged $50 million, along with very generous lease offers. This allowed the NHL to keep the team in the Phoenix market and deal with the Atlanta fiasco via a Winnipeg relocation. But now the COG is up against severe financial constraints and an adverse political and legal climate. If the NHL slashed the selling price to close to market value (say $100 million) they could allow Jamison to give back a big chunk on the lease, and this deal would have been done long ago.

I have to say that I'm a bit surprised that most Coyotes fans and the COG don't seem to be willing to take Bettman and the NHL to task on this.

Finally, my comments are generally focused on what I think will happen, not what I hope will happen. So, for example, I thought that the Hulsizer lease was a "fail" from the start. I thought that the Jamison lease would have had a very good chance of sailing through (perhaps with a few tweaks) 12 months ago and said so at the time, but Jamison and the NHL lost that window of opportunity by late Spring when the budget crisis became apparent in Glendale, and then the elections took hold. Now, I think it faces a real uphill struggle because there are so many options to delay or defeat it. I believe that it is now critical for the NHL and Jamison to make a grand gesture to show their gratitude to Glendale, and push a compromise deal through.
This is by far one of the better posts I have seen regardless of what side the poster is on in this whole mess or fan of any NHL team for that matter.

Quote:
I have to say that I'm a bit surprised that most Coyotes fans and the COG don't seem to be willing to take Bettman and the NHL to task on this.
From Glendale's perspective, they lost leverage in this whole mess the moment Judge Balm decided that the City is not entitled to be a secure creditor. At best being a cheerleader would make the City show that they are commited to keeping the team in AZ but who they decided to back wasn't going to make a difference in the ruling. I don't believe the NHL would have bailed out on the market at the nearest convience either had Glendale not backed them up because from a PR perpective, it would have made both the NHL and Bettman look bad in this mess to do so. Hell, it would make any of those 2 I just mentioned and Jamison look bad if case things didn't workout with Glendale to at least try with the City of Phoenix to get a deal going to play at USAC, especially since Gary Bettman and the NHL have no problem with the Islanders playing into a new arena that is simular to hockey seating at the old AWA.

With regards to most Coyotes fans, I couldn't agree with you more seeing how so many are hooked on the kool-aid of Gary Bettman, the NHL, and any perpecitve owner of the team, while believeing that the City of Glendale doesn't care at all for the fans. The truth is in this mess is despite the shortcomings of the city, it is always the City that has shown up to the alter while the other party gets a case of cold feet for some reason. A reason I do believe that neither Gary bettman, the NHL, or any of the prepective owners have not been truthful about.

I don't expect the NHL to ever budge on the asking price even though they are just as much responsible for allowing for the costs to get to that point. Hell, they could have lowered the asking price and still not cost the owners any money on the line of credit taken out by using the relocation fee they got from the Thrashers to Winnipeg.


Last edited by Naurutger: 11-21-2012 at 11:25 PM. Reason: changed shortcomings
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11-22-2012, 02:34 PM
  #395
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The City--or more precisely, those who set it on its present financial course--deserve all the lumps they've been getting, because the fact is that they've made some big mistakes. But merely pointing that out does not excuse the league, which also deserves what it's been getting continuously, from all quarters, over both the Coyotes and the lockout.

At any rate, the City must feel somewhat vindicated by the lockout: "This," they might say, "is the kind of BS we've had to deal with for three years running; these are the A-holes who have been telling potential buyers that the price is fixed and to come to us for concessions. Gary 'Record Revenues' Bettman can kiss our ass."

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11-22-2012, 09:17 PM
  #396
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Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
Does anyone here think Glendale won't **** this up?
It is hard to imagine with three years of history fresh in our minds.


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11-22-2012, 09:19 PM
  #397
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Whatever happens, expect delays
What if they say:"We should know more in two weeks."

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11-23-2012, 12:43 AM
  #398
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I did see a tweet that without the Coyotes, there would be more money in the general fund than with the Coyotes.....if memory serves me correctly.

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11-23-2012, 09:49 AM
  #399
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I did see a tweet that without the Coyotes, there would be more money in the general fund than with the Coyotes.....if memory serves me correctly.
It's a bit hard to tell based on the scenarios presented by Skeete and staff, but here is my understanding.

There are two main differences between the "with" (Coyotes) and "without" scenarios. First is the cost for arena management is several more million per year, which would put more strain on the general fund. Second is the reductions in general fund expenditures (i.e. budget cuts). The scenario without the Coyotes would not have as much cuts in expenditures as the scenario with the Coyotes, and since those cuts are projected to be extended for 10 or 20 years, in the long run the general fund balance is higher with the Coyotes. So, essentially what the scenarios are illustrating is that if you cut expenditures substantially in the short term to accommodate the AMF to Jamison and maintain those cuts over the long haul, you end up with a better general fund balance in the long term than if you don't make the cuts and pay a lower arena management fee without the Coyotes.

Skeete's apparent reason for not supporting the deal (that he negotiated) is that he thinks that the immediate and short term cuts to staff and services would be too painful and would not be justified by potential benefits to the general fund 15-20 years from now.

The bottom line is that Glendale has no budget flexibility in the next several years, even with the increased sales tax, so any incremental increase in expenditures for something like the Jamison AMF would have to be immediately offset by staff and service cuts.

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11-23-2012, 02:15 PM
  #400
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Maybe with today being "Black Friday" and the lockout in effect, the NHL will have a sale on distressed teams. 50% off, $85 million, today only.

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