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Which trade was worse, Kessel to TOR or Carter to CLB?

View Poll Results: Which trade was worse?
Phil Kessel to Toronto 183 57.19%
Jeff Carter to Columbus 125 39.06%
Both are equally bad and I can't choose just one 12 3.75%
Voters: 320. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-21-2012, 07:49 PM
  #126
beauchamp
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
Then what was your reason for brining up Seguin's numbers the Swiss League numbers other then to make other Leafs fans upset. It has nothing to do with the topic.
I must have dreamt Seguin becoming a part of one of the trades mentioned in your poll...

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Old
11-21-2012, 09:48 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by beauchamp View Post
I must have dreamt Seguin becoming a part of one of the trades mentioned in your poll...
I previously said the numbers Seguin is putting up in the Swiss League have nothing to do with what he has done in the NHL.

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11-21-2012, 10:00 PM
  #128
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The Jackets trade. The Kessel trade wasn't for Seguin and Hamilton. It was for 2 firsts and a second and they got one of the best young wingers in the game in return. The Jackets got a guy who didn't want to be there and phoned it in till they they dumped him for an under-performing dman.

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11-21-2012, 10:03 PM
  #129
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I must have dreamt Seguin becoming a part of one of the trades mentioned in your poll...
No one cares. The Monster was a legend in the Swedish elite league.

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11-21-2012, 10:30 PM
  #130
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lets see after the next draft

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Old
11-21-2012, 10:36 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
Seguin > kessel
Seguin, Hamilton, Knight >> Kessel
Yep Seguin of 67 points is better than Kessel of 82...

And Hamilton is already a franchise dman...

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11-21-2012, 10:42 PM
  #132
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Carter was traded for the 8th overall in 2011, Jake Voracek and a 3rd round pick in 2011.

Kessel was trade for a 1st rounder in 2010, a first round in 2011, and a 2nd rounder in 2010.

Kessel was not traded for Seguin, Hamilton or Knight. That happened after the trade and was the result of a bad call by Burke. So while those pieces became what they did, it is simply not correct to say Kessel was traded for Seguin/Hamilton/Knight. In fact Kessel wasn't even traded for the 2nd overall in 2010, and the 9th overall in 2011.

However Carter was traded for the 8th overall pick (not Couturier mind you), a 22 year old established top 6 forward with size and potential, and a 3rd round pick.

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11-21-2012, 10:54 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
Carter was traded for the 8th overall in 2011, Jake Voracek and a 3rd round pick in 2011.

Kessel was trade for a 1st rounder in 2010, a first round in 2011, and a 2nd rounder in 2010.

Kessel was not traded for Seguin, Hamilton or Knight. That happened after the trade and was the result of a bad call by Burke. So while those pieces became what they did, it is simply not correct to say Kessel was traded for Seguin/Hamilton/Knight. In fact Kessel wasn't even traded for the 2nd overall in 2010, and the 9th overall in 2011.

However Carter was traded for the 8th overall pick (not Couturier mind you), a 22 year old established top 6 forward with size and potential, and a 3rd round pick.
It's too bad only us Maple Leafs fans can see things like that. You are correct that no one knew when Kessel got traded those two 1st round picks and 2nd round pick would become Tyler Seguin, Jared Knight and Dougie Hamilton. Brian Burke took a risk and it didn't work out if you value those draft picks a lot more, however Toronto still got a proven high scoring right winger who is always good for 30-40 goals.

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11-21-2012, 10:59 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
I don't count what Columbus got for Carter and I didn't want to include that when I wrote this topic. That's why when looking at both trades the Jeff Carter one was a lot worse based on how he played in his short time in with the Blue Jackets.
We know what Carter gaves to Columbus why ignore it? We're counting he's not there anymore, but we don't count what they got in return? hmm what?

The absolut result is worst for Toronto. Of course manipulating thing will do a difference. Clb trade Voracek and Couturier for half a season of Carter. Tor trade Kessel for 2 mid 1st and one mid 2nd ...

The reality is Kessel vs Seguin + Hamilton + Knight
and Voracek + Couturier vs Johnson + 1st (in an awesome draft)

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Old
11-22-2012, 01:29 AM
  #135
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i don't really hate the kessel trade. t.o. isn't good at developing prospects and i have no confidence that seguin would end up the player he is now if he was drafted by toronto.

it's weird...it would be nice to have hamilton and seguin - but kessel's also the leaf's best player.

burke's an idiot...that much is obvious.

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11-22-2012, 01:52 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by BudMovin View Post
The Jackets trade. The Kessel trade wasn't for Seguin and Hamilton. It was for 2 firsts and a second and they got one of the best young wingers in the game in return. The Jackets got a guy who didn't want to be there and phoned it in till they they dumped him for an under-performing dman.
The flyers got a pick who turned into Courtier who is used to say CBJ had the worst trade, works both ways

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11-22-2012, 07:41 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
The Leafs didn't trade away 2 firsts and 2nd for Phil Kessel and Jake Gardiner so that's irrelevant. They could have had Gardiner, Hamilton, and Rielly all. A very promising D-unit. Yeah they still have a good looking future D unit with Gardiner and Rielly and a few of the other guys with potential but with Hamilton it would have had the potential to be Rangers-good.
You could argue that the leafs didn't trade away Seguin and Hamilton and Knight for Kessel, they traded away draft picks so that's irrelevant. Hockey is a cause and effect situation. We gave up draft picks so we needed to trade to get prospects back. You could argue that Gardiner is a replacement for Hamilton since the reason we traded for him was because we didn't have draft picks in our system.

Besides, with Matt Finn also in the system, Leafs already have the potential to be Rangers-good

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11-22-2012, 08:48 AM
  #138
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In my opinion, The Jackets trade was worse. Atleast the Leafs got Kessel, a young star sniper in the league. I hope that the Johnson and who ever they end up drafting with the pick works out well for them, because they definitely got shafted on that deal.

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11-22-2012, 08:54 AM
  #139
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The Kessel trade. Dougie Hamilton and Tyler Seguin both look like future superstars.

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11-22-2012, 09:22 AM
  #140
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The Kessel trade. Dougie Hamilton and Tyler Seguin both look like future superstars.
And you know this how?

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11-22-2012, 12:31 PM
  #141
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No one cares. The Monster was a legend in the Swedish elite league.
What has that to do with my post and the one I replied to???

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11-22-2012, 01:15 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Meteor View Post
In Kessel the Leafs at least got a point-per-game player.

In Carter the Blue Jackets got an unhappy player who was gone within 4 months.

So essentially the Jackets dropped Voracek and Couturier for Jack Johnson. That has to be worse.
This. My vote is the CLB trade.

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11-22-2012, 02:59 PM
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
You could argue that the leafs didn't trade away Seguin and Hamilton and Knight for Kessel, they traded away draft picks so that's irrelevant. Hockey is a cause and effect situation. We gave up draft picks so we needed to trade to get prospects back. You could argue that Gardiner is a replacement for Hamilton since the reason we traded for him was because we didn't have draft picks in our system.

Besides, with Matt Finn also in the system, Leafs already have the potential to be Rangers-good
Don't forget the Leafs also have Stuart Percy in their system, so when you include Gardiner, Rielly, and Finn that's four young Defensman drafted in the 1st and 2nd rounds.

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11-23-2012, 12:18 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
You could argue that the leafs didn't trade away Seguin and Hamilton and Knight for Kessel, they traded away draft picks so that's irrelevant. Hockey is a cause and effect situation. We gave up draft picks so we needed to trade to get prospects back. You could argue that Gardiner is a replacement for Hamilton since the reason we traded for him was because we didn't have draft picks in our system.

Besides, with Matt Finn also in the system, Leafs already have the potential to be Rangers-good
Ignoring what the draft picks ended up makes about as much as sense as ignoring the fact that Kessel has been a very good player. And if you're counting on Matt Finn to make your defense "Rangers-good" I'd advise you to tone down your expectations. After all, Matt Finn and Stuart Percy aren't bluechip prospects like Dougie Hamilton and Morgan Rielly.

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11-23-2012, 02:53 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
You could argue that the leafs didn't trade away Seguin and Hamilton and Knight for Kessel, they traded away draft picks so that's irrelevant. Hockey is a cause and effect situation. We gave up draft picks so we needed to trade to get prospects back. You could argue that Gardiner is a replacement for Hamilton since the reason we traded for him was because we didn't have draft picks in our system.

Besides, with Matt Finn also in the system, Leafs already have the potential to be Rangers-good
Yusss, love these statements, defiantly book marking this comment

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11-23-2012, 03:51 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
Ignoring what the draft picks ended up makes about as much as sense as ignoring the fact that Kessel has been a very good player. And if you're counting on Matt Finn to make your defense "Rangers-good" I'd advise you to tone down your expectations. After all, Matt Finn and Stuart Percy aren't bluechip prospects like Dougie Hamilton and Morgan Rielly.
I go to the University of Guelph and I have watched Finn for the past 2 years. Way more than I'm sure you've watched him. You probably only see him as a second-round prospect but he definitely plays like a first rounder and has potential to make the leafs defense Rangers good. Especially with Percy, Rielly and Gardiner. I'd say so.

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11-23-2012, 03:52 PM
  #147
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Yusss, love these statements, defiantly book marking this comment
Please do so. I will be too.

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11-23-2012, 03:52 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
I got to the University of Guelph and I have watched Finn for the past 2 years. Way more than I'm sure you've watched him. You probably only see him as a second-round prospect but he is definitely a first rounder and has potential to make the leafs defense Rangers good. Especially with Percy, Rielly and Gardiner. I'd say so.
Prepare to be disappointed.

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11-23-2012, 03:56 PM
  #149
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Prepare to be disappointed.
Guess we'll see. I'm guessing watching Finn isn't as good as pure skepticism in your books.

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11-23-2012, 04:00 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
Guess we'll see. I'm guessing watching Finn isn't as good as pure skepticism in your books.
Well you're probably clouded in bias because you're a Leaf fans and you're so familiar with Guelph so I don't know if I should trust your opinion as 100 % accurate. Very few prospects will approach the level of the Rangers Defensemen so the odds aren't really in their favor. Besides for as great as Matt Finn may end up becoming, I'm sure Dougie Hamilton + Matt Finn still beats just Matt Finn which you seem to be ignoring.

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