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Lockout Thread: I told myself I wouldn't do this| Part IV

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Old
11-21-2012, 09:44 PM
  #251
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Originally Posted by cup67 View Post
i guess everyone is happy with the moves the blue jays made.
so now there payroll is over 100 mil.
rogers looks like there going to lose money this year.
we all should not watch the blue jays play, there are paying there players to much.
just like the NHL, THE PLAYERS ARE NOT WORTH THE MONEY THEY GET.
you guys are complaining about how much the hockey players are making, but once your baseball team adds 50 mil to there payroll , your all happy, why?
What? Not everyone who sides with the owners is a Blue Jays fan or a baseball fan.

Not to mention, Rogers is not going to lose money this year.

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11-21-2012, 09:58 PM
  #252
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Rogers had a 1.74 billion dollar profit last year. I wouldn't be too worried about them 'losing money'

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11-21-2012, 10:00 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by cup67 View Post
i guess everyone is happy with the moves the blue jays made.
so now there payroll is over 100 mil.
rogers looks like there going to lose money this year.
we all should not watch the blue jays play, there are paying there players to much.
just like the NHL, THE PLAYERS ARE NOT WORTH THE MONEY THEY GET.
you guys are complaining about how much the hockey players are making, but once your baseball team adds 50 mil to there payroll , your all happy, why?
This reasoning is ridiculous. The MLB owners collectively agree to spend as much money as they want on their player payroll. Until we need to cross that bridge, what reason do fans have to be upset with how much the Blue Jays spend if the MLB owners, players and the Blue Jays organization in particularly are okay with this?

In contrast, the owners collectively agree that they are paying the players too much in salary. Players don't want to take any sort or pay cut or deferment. The issue is money spent on salaries so some people will look at their current salaries and the PA's proposal for future salaries as the premise in determining how reasonable or unreasonable they feel the PA is being with their demands. If the owners were fine with paying the salaries that they currently pay, how many people do you think would care? NONE.

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11-21-2012, 10:49 PM
  #254
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Things are getting interesting in the PA:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...medium=twitter

Quote:
If players voted to decertify, the NHLPA would no longer serve as a bargaining unit, and the lockout would either end or have its legality challenged in an antitrust lawsuit.
If this happens, here... We... Go.

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11-21-2012, 10:52 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Hurt View Post
Things are getting interesting in the PA:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...medium=twitter



If this happens, here... We... Go.
Players should've did this after the Winter Classic was cancelled. It shouldn't have gone this far.

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11-22-2012, 07:47 AM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
And will you stand by this the next time Cnd dollar is weak?

Remember Bettman/BOG saved Ottawa/Edmonton/Calgary once already
There's a cap now and even with the cap US based teams can't meet the floor.

When is the next time the greenback going to be a world standard? When they pay off the Chinese lenders?

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11-22-2012, 07:52 AM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Hurt View Post
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl...3368--nhl.html

Union solidarity in question?

Choice words by Roman Hamrlik:

"I am disgusted. We have to push Fehr to the wall to get the deal. Time is against us. We lost 1/4 season, it is $425 million. Who will give it back to us? Mr. Fehr?

"There should be voting between players. Four questions - YES or NO - then count it. If half of players say let's play, then they should sign new CBA. If there is no season he should leave and we will find someone new. Time is our enemy."
Just like Molson's have come out against what is happening, except of course Molson's isn't an old owner on the last year of a big money contract with little hope of ever getting one close to the same dollar figures.

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11-22-2012, 07:59 AM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Hurt View Post
Things are getting interesting in the PA:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...medium=twitter



If this happens, here... We... Go.
Quote:
The value of professional athletes having a union has become a subject of debate in sports law circles the past few years, as owners have used labour stoppages to shrink players’ share of revenues.

Without a union to negotiate with, a league couldn’t have a collective agreement, which would mean basic elements of the league, such as the salary cap, could be challenged under antitrust laws.

“Now, the purpose of the union is not so much to prevent exploitation, but it’s really to protect the owners,” Ron Klempner, associate general counsel of the NBPA, said in May. “The purpose of decertification, if we do it the next time, will be because the collective-bargaining process has pretty much run its course in professional sports,” he added.
Sounds like a good plan.

Hmmm, sounds like without a CBA the only thing remaining would be the existing contracts. Be interesting to see how not honouring contracts would work out without a CBA constraint.

As a Leafs' fan this might be the best thing since the no cap world.


Last edited by ULF_55: 11-22-2012 at 08:06 AM.
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11-22-2012, 09:29 AM
  #259
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Just like Molson's have come out against what is happening, except of course Molson's isn't an old owner on the last year of a big money contract with little hope of ever getting one close to the same dollar figures.
Of course but the Molsons are the Molsons and Roman Hamrlik's peers have an average career of 5-6 years. How many of them can afford to be held hostage by Donald Fehr's guerrilla tactics and lose substantial chunks of their career income?

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11-22-2012, 09:39 AM
  #260
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Sounds like a good plan.

Hmmm, sounds like without a CBA the only thing remaining would be the existing contracts. Be interesting to see how not honouring contracts would work out without a CBA constraint.

As a Leafs' fan this might be the best thing since the no cap world.
Decertification can only be used when a contract is not in effect or 60-90 days prior to its expiration. By that NLRA rule, it would seem very possible that existing contracts also come off the table and every player will have to renegotiate their contract. That would truly become a dog eat dog world for the players and owners alike.

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11-22-2012, 09:40 AM
  #261
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Of course but the Molsons are the Molsons and Roman Hamrlik's peers have an average career of 5-6 years. How many of them can afford to be held hostage by Donald Fehr's guerrilla tactics and lose substantial chunks of their career income?
Roman Hamrlik is already 38 years old and in the last year of his contract and likely NHL career.

He has no concerns about "make whole" or other important CBA issues that effect the present and future players, he simply wants to get paid for this season. So his comments are taking in context to what is best for him and only him in this negotiation.

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11-22-2012, 09:41 AM
  #262
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Players should've did this after the Winter Classic was cancelled. It shouldn't have gone this far.
I've been saying that for a while now. If the players know what they refuse to give up and that's 1.8B and all the contract rights presented by the league, they should have decertified a while back. Their negotiating strategy has been an epic failure up to this point as far as I'm concerned. Unless they pull a rabbit out of their hats, I'm not sure how these players walk away from this better off.

They should've taken that October 26 deadline more seriously.

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11-22-2012, 09:44 AM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Roman Hamrlik is already 38 years old and in the last year of his contract and likely NHL career.

He has no concerns about "make whole" or other important CBA issues that effect the present and future players, he simply wants to get paid for this season. So his comments are taking in context to what is best for him and only him in this negotiation.
Isn't that what negotiations are about? Getting paid? I highly doubt any of these players care about some runt coming up through the system in 10 years or they would sign long term CBAs 'for the future of the game'.

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11-22-2012, 09:50 AM
  #264
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Hmmm, sounds like without a CBA the only thing remaining would be the existing contracts. Be interesting to see how not honouring contracts would work out without a CBA constraint..
Judge Judy deals with breach of contract issues verbal or written on a daily basis most often ruling in favour of the contract terms. A binding legal document signed by both parties holds up in court every time, for the party not breaching its terms.

In this case "breach of contract" with no superseding CBA present, should result if the player wanted to make him a UFA immediately.. Which is what I think Fehr should be offering up now.. Any NHL contract not paid in full, should result in Owner fines for loss of wages and punitive damages and set the player free to go sign a new deal with another Owner that will honour it.

You should see how fast the contracts of Crosby or Stamkos or Tavares are agreed to be paid in full by their Owners to maintain their rights.

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11-22-2012, 09:53 AM
  #265
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Roman Hamrlik is already 38 years old and in the last year of his contract and likely NHL career.

He has no concerns about "make whole" or other important CBA issues that effect the present and future players, he simply wants to get paid for this season. So his comments are taking in context to what is best for him and only him in this negotiation.
Everyone has different goals within a union's membership.

Do you think most of the current players care about entry level contracts? Probably not, they've likely long surpassed it.

Sure, Roman Hamrlik shouldn't have done this publicly, but I can guarantee there are players out there itching to play for their own reasons as well.

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11-22-2012, 10:01 AM
  #266
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Isn't that what negotiations are about? Getting paid? I highly doubt any of these players care about some runt coming up through the system in 10 years or they would sign long term CBAs 'for the future of the game'.
In the last lockout in 2004/05 the current players lost a full season of wages and gave a 24% rollback and fought and sacrificed themselves to get a CBA that not only effected them but future NHLers.

Player contracting rights the biggest factors like earlier UFA status (age 27 or 7 years service), Arbitration, etc.. That is why after giving into the Owners demands last lockout to have linkage and hard cap cost certainty, they received their benefits in individual player contract rights. So that is why they have little to no interest to give into these demands even though all the current players that already have long-term deals are not effected by these things.

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11-22-2012, 10:12 AM
  #267
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11-22-2012, 10:15 AM
  #268
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Everyone has different goals within a union's membership.

Do you think most of the current players care about entry level contracts? Probably not, they've likely long surpassed it.

Sure, Roman Hamrlik shouldn't have done this publicly, but I can guarantee there are players out there itching to play for their own reasons as well.
There is no "I" in Team, so no question that in any group of people you will always find people that are ME people in all wakes of life and only concerned about their own best interest and could care less about others.

Team players will however stick together in unity, and its their mentality to do what is best for others at their own expense.. A Solider that fights for his Country for what he believes in, does it not only for himself, but willing to make the greatest sacrifice of all themselves fighting for the rights and liberties of others.

So in hockey players in a membership of 700-800 you will always find those that are only interested in themselves, and others that are team players doing what is best for everyone present and future.

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11-22-2012, 10:23 AM
  #269
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I'd worry about my Family first and foremost if in a similar situation. There is an 'i' in Family.

Equating this to giving up your life in a war?

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11-22-2012, 10:34 AM
  #270
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I'd worry about my Family first and foremost if in a similar situation. There is an 'i' in Family.

Equating this to giving up your life in a war?
I was talking about team mentality and in this CBA battle there are players united together fighting for the rights of the collective Team group, and not only what is in their best interest alone.

Sidney Crosby is a benefactor of last CBA as he wasn't even drafted yet while the NHLPA fought for his rights in the last lockout, but is now reaping the rewards of their financial sacrifices (loss wages) previously. He has a long term contract > 5 years and will not be effected by the NHL raising the UFA age nor eliminating arbitration etc. from the next CBA. However he has spoken out openly that he (with other players) are not willing to role over to Owners demands and are fighting for individual player contract rights for the NHLPA team and not themselves individually. The highest paid players losing the most money themselves on a daily basis as the lockout continues, putting individual "family" needs secondary on their priority lists.

You're a good example proving my "I" point by your beliefs posted above that you would only be concerned about yourself (family) and put those ahead of others, if you were involved in this battle as union member.

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11-22-2012, 10:39 AM
  #271
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I was talking about team mentality and in this CBA battle there are players united together fighting for the rights of the collective Team group, and not only what is in their best interest alone.

Sidney Crosby is a benefactor of last CBA as he wasn't even drafted yet while the NHLPA fought for his rights in the last lockout, but is now reaping the rewards of their financial sacrifices (loss wages) previously. He has a long term contract > 5 years and will not be effected by the NHL raising the UFA age nor eliminating arbitration etc. from the next CBA. However he has spoken out openly that he (with other players) are not willing to role over to Owners demands and are fighting for individual player contract rights for the NHLPA team and not themselves individually. The highest paid players losing the most money themselves on a daily basis as the lockout continues, putting individual "family" needs secondary on their priority lists.

You're a good example proving my "I" point by your beliefs posted above that you would only be concerned about yourself (family) and put those ahead of others.
Yes, like any good husband/father would.

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11-22-2012, 10:50 AM
  #272
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Judge Judy deals with breach of contract issues verbal or written on a daily basis most often ruling in favour of the contract terms. A binding legal document signed by both parties holds up in court every time, for the party not breaching its terms.

In this case "breach of contract" with no superseding CBA present, should result if the player wanted to make him a UFA immediately.. Which is what I think Fehr should be offering up now.. Any NHL contract not paid in full, should result in Owner fines for loss of wages and punitive damages and set the player free to go sign a new deal with another Owner that will honour it.

You should see how fast the contracts of Crosby or Stamkos or Tavares are agreed to be paid in full by their Owners to maintain their rights.
Do you have anything to support your thoughts beside watching Judge Judy deal with contracts that aren't negotiated under a union? Not saying that a contract isn't a contract regardless of the circumstances you signed it, but you haven't really made any real case that a contract negotiated under the rules of a CBA would have the exact same effect as any written or verbal rule signed between any Tom, Dick or Harry that was negotiated individually under no pretense of a CBA.

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11-22-2012, 10:54 AM
  #273
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
I was talking about team mentality and in this CBA battle there are players united together fighting for the rights of the collective Team group, and not only what is in their best interest alone.

Sidney Crosby is a benefactor of last CBA as he wasn't even drafted yet while the NHLPA fought for his rights in the last lockout, but is now reaping the rewards of their financial sacrifices (loss wages) previously. He has a long term contract > 5 years and will not be effected by the NHL raising the UFA age nor eliminating arbitration etc. from the next CBA. However he has spoken out openly that he (with other players) are not willing to role over to Owners demands and are fighting for individual player contract rights for the NHLPA team and not themselves individually. The highest paid players losing the most money themselves on a daily basis as the lockout continues, putting individual "family" needs secondary on their priority lists.

You're a good example proving my "I" point by your beliefs posted above that you would only be concerned about yourself (family) and put those ahead of others, if you were involved in this battle as union member.
And what if the majority want to take the league's deal or actually negotiate off of it? Are the guys preventing that from happening putting the good of the others infront of themselves? You're hardly in a position to argue the intentions and selflessness of any union if you aren't privy to what the majority of the union wants. If the majority of players want a deal, then the guys who won't budge on their positions become the ones who are putting themselves ahead of others.

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11-22-2012, 11:09 AM
  #274
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Am I the only one who kind of hopes this decertification thing happens?? If the NHL wants to play with fire, lets do it.

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11-22-2012, 11:23 AM
  #275
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Am I the only one who kind of hopes this decertification thing happens?? If the NHL wants to play with fire, lets do it.
lol do what? decertify, maybe lose the cap, lose guaranteed contracts and lose they contracts they already have lol

great plan

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