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General UFC/MMA/boxing discussion - Bute vs. Pascal?

View Poll Results: Who wins a fight between Lucian Bute and Jean Pascal ?
Lucian Bute 9 36.00%
Jean Pascal 15 60.00%
Draw 1 4.00%
Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-20-2012, 08:02 PM
  #276
ClasslessGuy
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GSP will probably retire from UFC before this fight becomes possible anyway.

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11-20-2012, 09:46 PM
  #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I'm not so sure about that. UFC couldn't even sell out the Bell Center with GSP's return.
There's 3 reasons for that

1) Lucian Bute fought 2 weeks ago, so there goes some of your clientele's budget
2) the card blowed. There was no big name except GSP, just look at UFC 155 and 156 compared to this one, even the damn Fox card is better than last weekend.
3) Because Dana White thinks that Canadian fans are sheep that will do whatever it takes for tickets, price tickets were extraordinary high.

Nobody attracts more fans than GSP, nobody..

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Old
11-20-2012, 10:07 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by ClasslessGuy View Post
GSP will probably retire from UFC before this fight becomes possible anyway.
More likely Silva does first. Imo. Its not like gsp will face champions all the time.. if GSP does and Silva doesnt its tell you a lot already.

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11-20-2012, 10:09 PM
  #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
There's 3 reasons for that

1) Lucian Bute fought 2 weeks ago, so there goes some of your clientele's budget
2) the card blowed. There was no big name except GSP, just look at UFC 155 and 156 compared to this one, even the damn Fox card is better than last weekend.
3) Because Dana White thinks that Canadian fans are sheep that will do whatever it takes for tickets, price tickets were extraordinary high.

Nobody attracts more fans than GSP, nobody..
Galchy?
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Old
11-20-2012, 10:36 PM
  #280
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Montreal Impact FC View Post
More likely Silva does first. Imo. Its not like gsp will face champions all the time.. if GSP does and Silva doesnt its tell you a lot already.
Actually, since they each became Champs, Silva fought 4 times versus Champs (not counting Belfort), and GSP 3 times (that includes an interim champ and also Matt Serra. Not true deserving champions.).
GSP also lost to Serra.

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11-21-2012, 07:42 AM
  #281
RaMMuT
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I wonder who's fighting next for the title now. I think Hendricks deserves it the most and this will be dangerous for GSP because Hendricks is an elite wrestler with knockout power.

I would rather see Diaz vs GSP just because I think it would sell more and I want GSP to shut Diaz up.

Or let Diaz fight Hendricks for the title shot. I'd love to see Diaz eat a Hendricks H-Bomb.

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11-21-2012, 06:31 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by RaMMuT View Post
I wonder who's fighting next for the title now. I think Hendricks deserves it the most and this will be dangerous for GSP because Hendricks is an elite wrestler with knockout power.
You think? Or you could just look at the standings and see Henricks is the #2 ranked WW in the world....

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Old
11-22-2012, 04:14 AM
  #283
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Why would GSP have the advantage on the ground? Silva has fought better wrestlers (who also happened to be bigger) and still beat them up or submitted them.
Silva's ground game is extremely underrated because he never uses it. People just don't see it. Whenever they do, it's versus wrestlers and because he's on his back, most assume he's simply no good. But I what I see, is a guy absolutely comfortable on his back and patiently working to find a submission. He isn't looking to stand up, he barely tries to stuff the takedowns and doesn't look for sweeps. All he does is look for a submission. Most people seem to be oblivious to that and just think his opponent is dominating, and that's because of the judging system, if you take a guy down and stay on top throwing harmless punches, no matter if the guy in the bottom position is actually working just as hard to find a submission, judges will give you the points.

GSP has very little chance to win. And Silva is not overrated, if anything, people are reluctant to give him enough credit. This thread is proof of it.

And out of curiosity, if Silva isn't the greatest p4p ever, who is?
I'm curious to the answer of your last question as well. I guess when people say GSP has the advantage on the ground they're assuming he'll be in top control, which is a pretty fair assumption, however, GSP on his back isn't impressive at all, he's not in Silva's league from his back.

We seen in the 2nd fight that with Sonnen that Silva has pretty good take down defense as well. The problem lies that he is usually comfortable off his back. He learned from the 1st fight that being on your back against an outstanding wrestler like Sonnen was not in his best interest. Sonnen got him down in the first, but after that he was stuffed. To me, Sonnen is a better wrestler than GSP.

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Old
11-22-2012, 07:22 AM
  #284
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
I'm curious to the answer of your last question as well. I guess when people say GSP has the advantage on the ground they're assuming he'll be in top control, which is a pretty fair assumption, however, GSP on his back isn't impressive at all, he's not in Silva's league from his back.

We seen in the 2nd fight that with Sonnen that Silva has pretty good take down defense as well. The problem lies that he is usually comfortable off his back. He learned from the 1st fight that being on your back against an outstanding wrestler like Sonnen was not in his best interest. Sonnen got him down in the first, but after that he was stuffed. To me, Sonnen is a better wrestler than GSP.
Th only other guy I'd put in Silva's league is Fedor, but that was the Fedor of a few years, not the current one. His reign has ended. So right now, It's all Silva.

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11-22-2012, 07:23 AM
  #285
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
I'm curious to the answer of your last question as well. I guess when people say GSP has the advantage on the ground they're assuming he'll be in top control, which is a pretty fair assumption, however, GSP on his back isn't impressive at all, he's not in Silva's league from his back.

We seen in the 2nd fight that with Sonnen that Silva has pretty good take down defense as well. The problem lies that he is usually comfortable off his back. He learned from the 1st fight that being on your back against an outstanding wrestler like Sonnen was not in his best interest. Sonnen got him down in the first, but after that he was stuffed. To me, Sonnen is a better wrestler than GSP.
Not only that, but sonnen has a more powerful punch with his weight, and you see how silva took his hits for 5 rounds. GSP can't compete with that... He's just too small

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11-22-2012, 09:27 AM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
You think? Or you could just look at the standings and see Henricks is the #2 ranked WW in the world....
Ya but rankings sometimes mean jack if the UFC can put someone else and make more money out of it.

I'll give you one example

Jon Jones vs Chael Sonnen!

So who knows man maybe Nick Diaz is gonna come back calling out GSP (obviously) and with Dana anything is possible!

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11-22-2012, 09:41 AM
  #287
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Originally Posted by RaMMuT View Post
Ya but rankings sometimes mean jack if the UFC can put someone else and make more money out of it.

I'll give you one example

Jon Jones vs Chael Sonnen!

So who knows man maybe Nick Diaz is gonna come back calling out GSP (obviously) and with Dana anything is possible!
To be honest I'm tired of Chael's big mouth getting all these fights he doesn't deserve.

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Old
11-22-2012, 09:44 AM
  #288
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
To be honest I'm tired of Chael's big mouth getting all these fights he doesn't deserve.
Dana White always loved marketable fighters more than actual contenders.
Trash talking fighter helps him promote the fight, makes it that more easy to sell it to fans.

Sonnen never deserved a title shot, not even versus Silva.

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Old
11-22-2012, 09:56 AM
  #289
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
To be honest I'm tired of Chael's big mouth getting all these fights he doesn't deserve.
Name "all these fights".

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11-22-2012, 09:59 AM
  #290
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Dana White always loved marketable fighters more than actual contenders.
Trash talking fighter helps him promote the fight, makes it that more easy to sell it to fans.

Sonnen never deserved a title shot, not even versus Silva.
He beat Dan Miller which whilst not impressive gave him the opportunity to fight Yushin Okami who was #2 at the time the fight. He beat Okami and then beat Marquardt. How is that not deserving of a title shot?

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11-22-2012, 10:16 AM
  #291
RaMMuT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs View Post
To be honest I'm tired of Chael's big mouth getting all these fights he doesn't deserve.
I agree. When Chael Sonnen asked Dana to put him against Jones to save that UFC event that got scrapped, OK yeah I understand a bit since nobody wanted to step up to fight him.

But to get the title shot and to be on TUF against Jones for April...that shows you how the UFC is more of an entertainment business and how rankings sometimes don't mean anything.

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11-22-2012, 10:21 AM
  #292
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Originally Posted by Gerbox 360 View Post
He beat Dan Miller which whilst not impressive gave him the opportunity to fight Yushin Okami who was #2 at the time the fight. He beat Okami and then beat Marquardt. How is that not deserving of a title shot?
And for his second title shot he destroyed Brian Stann and grinded out a decision over Bisping. I think he deserved his title shots for the Middleweight division, but to come to the LHW with 0 fights and get a title shot just because your a company guy...sucks for all the other fighters like Hendo and Machida.

I would have rather watched Machida fight Jones a second time. Or even Hendo try to land an H bomb on Jonny but we'll see if he gets injured again or not.

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Old
11-22-2012, 01:08 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by ClasslessGuy View Post
After seeing the gsp doc on radio-canada & all the interviews after the condit fight I have the feeling he doesn't want to fight Silva and we can't really blame him.
This.

Such fight would be one of the worst business decision EVER, not only for GSP, but for Silva and the UFC. Why would two "greatest of all time" MMA fighters want to risk tarnishing their aura? For the UFC, two world-class stars with millions (and growing) of fans is better than only one.

They might fight one day, when they are no longer at the top as they are now.

(And for the record, if they fight now, Silva is likely gonna win. But not because he's more skilled -- e.g. better striker or wrestler -- but because he's bigger, has better reach and more power. Period.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I'm not so sure about that. UFC couldn't even sell out the Bell Center with GSP's return.
GSP doesn't attract as much attention as he once did because he stopped finishing his opponents. A lot of fans can appreciate what is a wrestling clinic, but a lot of casual fans will tune out. Even some wrestling fans will get tired of him always doing the same thing. GSP's game plan has been the same for the past five fights. Some are fed up.

Silva will always draw in more fans because of how dominant he is. Not only does he finish his fighters, but it's as if he does it in a new and more dominant fashion than his previous fight.
Jones is getting a similar reputation. He's unorthodox, and likes to finish.

The only reason why I would think GSP vs Silva would bring in more viewers is because GSP reaches out to Canadians. But as I said, GSP is losing viewers.
A Jones vs Silva fight would be a lot more entertaining though.
Are you sure Silva draws more fans and attention than GSP? I highly highly doubt that. I bet my house that GSP, worldwide overall, is much much more popular than Anderson Silva. And I'd bet my second house that a GSP v. Silva fight right now will get the biggest draw ever for an MMA event.

I begin to think you just underestimate every aspect of GSP.

Edit: MMA's biggest PPV draws slideshow:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...-draws/page/11

(Of course, it's not totally exhaustive but at least, it means it's highly debatable that Silva draws more than GSP.)

A Look at UFC's Top Five Draws: http://www.411mania.com/MMA/columns/...XQiHvzdjRsi.99


Last edited by Poulet Kostopoulos: 11-22-2012 at 01:52 PM.
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11-22-2012, 01:39 PM
  #294
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Lesnar and GSP were always the biggest draw in the UFC. GSP is obviously number one of all time since he has more fights than Lesnar. Silva must be second now (11-12 title fight), but he always drew mediocre PPV numbers compared to GSP or a guy like Lesnar. It might have changed recently (during this year?) but it used to be poor numbers for a champion.

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11-22-2012, 01:54 PM
  #295
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Gerbox 360 View Post
He beat Dan Miller which whilst not impressive gave him the opportunity to fight Yushin Okami who was #2 at the time the fight. He beat Okami and then beat Marquardt. How is that not deserving of a title shot?
You're right, I forgot about Marquardt.

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11-22-2012, 01:58 PM
  #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Actually, since they each became Champs, Silva fought 4 times versus Champs (not counting Belfort), and GSP 3 times (that includes an interim champ and also Matt Serra. Not true deserving champions.).
GSP also lost to Serra.
Maybe but I wasnt talking about the past but the future and since silva is 37... and GSP 31..

I think both are fantastic fighters btw.

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11-22-2012, 02:03 PM
  #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Actually, since they each became Champs, Silva fought 4 times versus Champs (not counting Belfort), and GSP 3 times (that includes an interim champ and also Matt Serra. Not true deserving champions.).
GSP also lost to Serra.
Henderson, Newton, Franklin and....Griffin?

GSP fought: Hughes, Penn, Serra(Interm of course), Sherk and I think you can count Sheilds.

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11-22-2012, 02:48 PM
  #298
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by AndyPipkin View Post
Henderson, Newton, Franklin and....Griffin?

GSP fought: Hughes, Penn, Serra(Interm of course), Sherk and I think you can count Sheilds.
I said, since they became Champs.
So, for Silva, Hendo, Franklin, Griffin and Belfort.

For GSP, Hughes, Penn, Serra and Condit.

4 vs 4, not 3.
Had forgotten about Penn. However, Condit was an interim, and we all know Serra had no business winning in the first place.

Didn't consider Shields because he was fighting in lower talent organization. Hendo earned his title versus top end talent in Pride. At the time, Pride had more talent than the UFC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
Are you sure Silva draws more fans and attention than GSP? I highly highly doubt that. I bet my house that GSP, worldwide overall, is much much more popular than Anderson Silva. And I'd bet my second house that a GSP v. Silva fight right now will get the biggest draw ever for an MMA event.

I begin to think you just underestimate every aspect of GSP.

Edit: MMA's biggest PPV draws slideshow:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...-draws/page/11

(Of course, it's not totally exhaustive but at least, it means it's highly debatable that Silva draws more than GSP.)

A Look at UFC's Top Five Draws: http://www.411mania.com/MMA/columns/...XQiHvzdjRsi.99
Actually, I ended that post by saying the reason GSP might bring in more talent is that he has the Canadians in full support of him. MMA is gaining in popularity here, a lot, in Brazil, it's been around for a very long time. That country always produced top fighters. GSP is the only and first top canadian talent to make it in the UFC.

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Old
11-23-2012, 08:56 AM
  #299
RaMMuT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I said, since they became Champs.
So, for Silva, Hendo, Franklin, Griffin and Belfort.

For GSP, Hughes, Penn, Serra and Condit.

4 vs 4, not 3.
Had forgotten about Penn. However, Condit was an interim, and we all know Serra had no business winning in the first place.

Didn't consider Shields because he was fighting in lower talent organization. Hendo earned his title versus top end talent in Pride. At the time, Pride had more talent than the UFC.



Actually, I ended that post by saying the reason GSP might bring in more talent is that he has the Canadians in full support of him. MMA is gaining in popularity here, a lot, in Brazil, it's been around for a very long time. That country always produced top fighters. GSP is the only and first top canadian talent to make it in the UFC.
I somewhat disagree with you on that one. You forgot about Carlos Newton that was the WW champion in the UFC. He's the one that lost the title to Matt Hughes. He may not be at the same elite level as GSP but he deserves some credit.

Harold Howard too was one of the first Canadian fighters to step in the octagon, but unfortunately he had some serious issues.

However, GSP is the main reason why MMA in Canada became so huge. GSP is the Manny Pacquiao of Canada. (not Jean Pascal or Lucian Bute)

Speaking of Jean Pascal...did anybody see this during last event?? lol


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11-23-2012, 08:59 AM
  #300
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Originally Posted by RaMMuT View Post
Speaking of Jean Pascal...did anybody see this during last event?? lol


I didn't see that... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Fail!!

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