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Old
11-22-2012, 02:47 AM
  #751
ginner classic
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Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
I can't believe I'm getting sucked into this argument again.

What goalies at the age of 38 have been considered elite in the NHL?

And what a goalie experiences in their career is fairly irrelevant. We're talking about physiologically and psychological changes in a person's body.
Why are you going there...why not pick 36...who cares about Lou's last big contract year if you get three years of elite, two of high quality and one of average. After that he's done for sure (retirement).

Rolosen just made it to year 43 before suckage fully set in

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11-22-2012, 02:52 AM
  #752
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I think Khabibulin fits the description
Marty Turco is about to fit
Nabokov may
fit that they were consistently good but slipped as they got into 35+ or played past 35?

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11-22-2012, 08:24 AM
  #753
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On a different topic but I can manage to relate it to this thread.....lol. After yesterday, does anyone actually believe there will be a season for Lou or any other player to get traded? I myself have zero hope and can't believe the damage that is being done to the game. Goodthing there is the best hockey of the year around the corner.

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11-22-2012, 08:48 AM
  #754
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Originally Posted by doorman View Post
On a different topic but I can manage to relate it to this thread.....lol. After yesterday, does anyone actually believe there will be a season for Lou or any other player to get traded? I myself have zero hope and can't believe the damage that is being done to the game. Goodthing there is the best hockey of the year around the corner.
Ahhh...the WJC, i am getting tingly!!

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Old
11-22-2012, 08:52 AM
  #755
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Originally Posted by doorman View Post
On a different topic but I can manage to relate it to this thread.....lol. After yesterday, does anyone actually believe there will be a season for Lou or any other player to get traded? I myself have zero hope and can't believe the damage that is being done to the game. Goodthing there is the best hockey of the year around the corner.
There will always be reason to make trades.

Having said that I still can't believe the NHL. What a joke. I really hate how they keep saying we need the NHLPA to come meet us half way. Umm last I checked the PA was the ones already giving things up. Personally when it cmes back I will not boycot the NHL, as I dont think this is fair to a number of people, the bars and other people that make their money from the NHL, not to mention me. But I will start to boycot things the owners own.

I am always stoked to go see WJC.

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11-22-2012, 11:09 AM
  #756
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Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
There will always be reason to make trades.

Having said that I still can't believe the NHL. What a joke. I really hate how they keep saying we need the NHLPA to come meet us half way. Umm last I checked the PA was the ones already giving things up. Personally when it cmes back I will not boycot the NHL, as I dont think this is fair to a number of people, the bars and other people that make their money from the NHL, not to mention me. But I will start to boycot things the owners own.

I am always stoked to go see WJC.
So anyway again, I am on the opposite side of your stance, I am with the league. I don't like how the PA put off talks when approached by the league after the Winter Classic, again after the All-star game, then again after the draft. They then had the nerve to be suprised to be locked out? lol, what a joke. Players have several time shot their mouths off in bad choices of comments. Also this latest 50/50 being % based so long as they never make less then the previous year, seriously? Nobody can tell me that is true HRR sharing. For this I side with the league.

As for the WJC, bring it on, guy who still play for the crest on the front instead of the name on the back. Though I am almost affraid of what some Leaf fans will say if Rielly makes it and plays very well. I forsee Orr comparissons coming, lol, ughhhh poor kid.

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11-22-2012, 11:16 AM
  #757
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Originally Posted by doorman View Post
So anyway again, I am on the opposite side of your stance, I am with the league. I don't like how the PA put off talks when approached by the league after the Winter Classic, again after the All-star game, then again after the draft. They then had the nerve to be suprised to be locked out? lol, what a joke. Players have several time shot their mouths off in bad choices of comments. Also this latest 50/50 being % based so long as they never make less then the previous year, seriously? Nobody can tell me that is true HRR sharing. For this I side with the league.

As for the WJC, bring it on, guy who still play for the crest on the front instead of the name on the back. Though I am almost affraid of what some Leaf fans will say if Rielly makes it and plays very well. I forsee Orr comparissons coming, lol, ughhhh poor kid.
The players were locked out by the owners, they aren't the ones who are irreparably hurting the leagues HRR, that is on the league.

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11-22-2012, 11:30 AM
  #758
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
The players were locked out by the owners, they aren't the ones who are irreparably hurting the leagues HRR, that is on the league.
So that the NHL approached the PA three seperate times asking to get an early start on CBA talks and were continuely put off has nothing to do with anything right? That they waited until the season was upon us to actually start conversation with the NHL, wasn't trying to force a hand? I see we agree to disagree, but if it is all on the owners, why did the players not talk earlier?

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11-22-2012, 11:45 AM
  #759
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So that the NHL approached the PA three seperate times asking to get an early start on CBA talks and were continuely put off has nothing to do with anything right? That they waited until the season was upon us to actually start conversation with the NHL, wasn't trying to force a hand? I see we agree to disagree, but if it is all on the owners, why did the players not talk earlier?
The league was using a potential lockout as a negotiating tactic, as an eventuality if they didn't get exactly what they wanted. I don't think the NHLPA is innocent in all this, but when you threaten the otherside with locking them out before negotiations begin in earnest...well even if the rescind every one of their demands AND get the season started AND fix it so my team wins all the games, playoffs included AND we get the top pick AND Bettman gives me a foot rub...they're still the bad guys to me. This is still the third lock out in 20 ish years, and the way I see it, they wanted it.

EDIT: Anyway....so whats next offer?
Luongo = ???.
Lupul+??? = Luongo.
Grabovski+??? = Luongo.

Please answer in the form of an overpayment.


Last edited by Cogburn: 11-22-2012 at 11:48 AM. Reason: I started getting off topic.
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Old
11-22-2012, 11:51 AM
  #760
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Next offer is: Bozak + Frattin + Gardiner + 1st for Luongo.


Deal?

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Old
11-22-2012, 11:54 AM
  #761
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Next offer is: Bozak + Frattin + Gardiner + 1st for Luongo.


Deal?
If lou was in his mid to late 20's sure but he's not so NEXT!

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Old
11-22-2012, 11:55 AM
  #762
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
The league was using a potential lockout as a negotiating tactic, as an eventuality if they didn't get exactly what they wanted. I don't think the NHLPA is innocent in all this, but when you threaten the otherside with locking them out before negotiations begin in earnest...well even if the rescind every one of their demands AND get the season started AND fix it so my team wins all the games, playoffs included AND we get the top pick AND Bettman gives me a foot rub...they're still the bad guys to me. This is still the third lock out in 20 ish years, and the way I see it, they wanted it.

EDIT: Anyway....so whats next offer?
Luongo = ???.
Lupul+??? = Luongo.
Grabovski+??? = Luongo.

Please answer in the form of an overpayment.
Not only will I trade you the Leafs first pick in 2017, I will throw in some clean fresh towels, a bucket of brand new not even used pratice pucks, a dozen new game pucks, a package of black and white hockey tape, plus here is the clincher, new jockstraps and a case of powerade for every nucks player.....all you need to do is throw in Lack incase Lou gets injured......oh I forgot to mention I also have some Subway BOGO coupons.....deal? lol

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11-22-2012, 12:02 PM
  #763
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Originally Posted by doorman View Post
So anyway again, I am on the opposite side of your stance, I am with the league. I don't like how the PA put off talks when approached by the league after the Winter Classic, again after the All-star game, then again after the draft. They then had the nerve to be suprised to be locked out? lol, what a joke. Players have several time shot their mouths off in bad choices of comments. Also this latest 50/50 being % based so long as they never make less then the previous year, seriously? Nobody can tell me that is true HRR sharing. For this I side with the league.

As for the WJC, bring it on, guy who still play for the crest on the front instead of the name on the back. Though I am almost affraid of what some Leaf fans will say if Rielly makes it and plays very well. I forsee Orr comparissons coming, lol, ughhhh poor kid.
Ok, last reply, on the lockout.. I will then throw stuff back at the Topic at hand.

The NHL has yet to offer an actual 50/50 split. The only reason I believe the players are not in there and just trying to negotiate is because last lockout, the PA finally caved to save the season and took a salary cap, then the NHL said great. Then proceeded to lock them out unless they also got the 25% rollback. how is that for negotiations? Good faith? It would be like signing two guys to identical 98 million dollar contracts then saying wait I can't afford this how about we roll back salary?

Anyway, if the rumors are true, and there is a deal with the leafs, I believe it has to be at the very least something like Bozak ++, I would guess one of those being a first of some sort. The other being a prospect.

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Old
11-22-2012, 12:15 PM
  #764
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Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
Ok, last reply, on the lockout.. I will then throw stuff back at the Topic at hand.

The NHL has yet to offer an actual 50/50 split. The only reason I believe the players are not in there and just trying to negotiate is because last lockout, the PA finally caved to save the season and took a salary cap, then the NHL said great. Then proceeded to lock them out unless they also got the 25% rollback. how is that for negotiations? Good faith? It would be like signing two guys to identical 98 million dollar contracts then saying wait I can't afford this how about we roll back salary?

Anyway, if the rumors are true, and there is a deal with the leafs, I believe it has to be at the very least something like Bozak ++, I would guess one of those being a first of some sort. The other being a prospect.
My above deal is far superior, lol....true story

And I never actually meant for the comment to bring the topic that far off course

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11-22-2012, 12:31 PM
  #765
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Originally Posted by doorman View Post
So that the NHL approached the PA three seperate times asking to get an early start on CBA talks and were continuely put off has nothing to do with anything right? That they waited until the season was upon us to actually start conversation with the NHL, wasn't trying to force a hand? I see we agree to disagree, but if it is all on the owners, why did the players not talk earlier?
No point in negotiating during the season, players have lives, families and their jobs to worry about...

...do you remember the leagues first proposal, if you think that was in good faith.... but I digress this thread is about how much Leaf fans want Luongo, but how little they want to give up for him.

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Old
11-22-2012, 12:31 PM
  #766
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If lou was in his mid to late 20's sure but he's not so NEXT!


No c'mon H4L, that deal is golden, let's get it done.

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11-22-2012, 12:54 PM
  #767
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Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
Ok, last reply, on the lockout.. I will then throw stuff back at the Topic at hand.

The NHL has yet to offer an actual 50/50 split. The only reason I believe the players are not in there and just trying to negotiate is because last lockout, the PA finally caved to save the season and took a salary cap, then the NHL said great. Then proceeded to lock them out unless they also got the 25% rollback. how is that for negotiations? Good faith? It would be like signing two guys to identical 98 million dollar contracts then saying wait I can't afford this how about we roll back salary?

Anyway, if the rumors are true, and there is a deal with the leafs, I believe it has to be at the very least something like Bozak ++, I would guess one of those being a first of some sort. The other being a prospect.
I don't see the Canucks wanting Bozak and if there's a first involved no chance it's "protected" I keep hearing that from Leafs fans.

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11-22-2012, 01:11 PM
  #768
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No c'mon H4L, that deal is golden, let's get it done.
LOL I believe a deal will be made between the Leafs and Nucks and It will be a little more then leafs fans thought and a little less then Van fans thought. Lou is an elite tender and if his contract falls on vans lap after he retires his value will go up exponentially.

To
Van
Lupul
Connolly
Franson
1st 2014

Toronto
Lou
Ballard
schroeder

I had to lol

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11-22-2012, 01:34 PM
  #769
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I don't see the Canucks wanting Bozak and if there's a first involved no chance it's "protected" I keep hearing that from Leafs fans.
Certainly no chance it changes to a second if it's too high a pick, I think most deals like that just flip the first rounder to the following year.

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11-22-2012, 02:05 PM
  #770
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I don't see the Canucks wanting Bozak and if there's a first involved no chance it's "protected" I keep hearing that from Leafs fans.
You don't Brian Burke wants to learn from the Phil Kessel trade and make sure any 1st round pick from Toronto is conditional on the Leafs making the Playoffs. That's why we keep saying he should do that.

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11-22-2012, 02:17 PM
  #771
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You don't Brian Burke wants to learn from the Phil Kessel trade and make sure any 1st round pick from Toronto is conditional on the Leafs making the Playoffs. That's why we keep saying he should do that.


Burke's ability to learn has always been in question. He hasn't yet learned to acquire legit goaltenders no matter where he's been. You would think that because this essentially ended his tenure in VAN, and looks to be endangering his job in TO, that he would learn from past mistakes. But yet here we are...?

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11-22-2012, 02:19 PM
  #772
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Not only will I trade you the Leafs first pick in 2017, I will throw in some clean fresh towels, a bucket of brand new not even used pratice pucks, a dozen new game pucks, a package of black and white hockey tape, plus here is the clincher, new jockstraps and a case of powerade for every nucks player.....all you need to do is throw in Lack incase Lou gets injured......oh I forgot to mention I also have some Subway BOGO coupons.....deal? lol
Well, that beats a lot of proposals

I mean in the sense of pucks, jockstraps and powerade is useful to us. Lack for Subway coupons though...I'm disappointed doorman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey 4 Life View Post
LOL I believe a deal will be made between the Leafs and Nucks and It will be a little more then leafs fans thought and a little less then Van fans thought. Lou is an elite tender and if his contract falls on vans lap after he retires his value will go up exponentially.

To
Van
Lupul
Connolly
Franson
1st 2014

Toronto
Lou
Ballard
schroeder

I had to lol
Drop Ballard and I'm in. He seems like...cap dump fodder in this, and he still plays a role here, despite his cap hit. Raymond may not have said job with Lupul coming back.

If the contract falls back on us (widely speculated, but not assured...yet), we might want a little more value for that then, since there is literally 0 risk for the Leafs in taking his contract and will have a star player returning.

Lou, Schroeder and Raymond for Lupul, Franson (if we talk to him about a contract first), 1st and a cap dump in Connolly (easily buriable if he doesn't contribute)

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11-22-2012, 02:41 PM
  #773
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[QUOTE=Cogburn;55964195]Well, that beats a lot of proposals

I mean in the sense of pucks, jockstraps and powerade is useful to us. Lack for Subway coupons though...I'm disappointed doorman.

HMMMM even though they were BOGO coupons? lets say I throw in a nice 60 of Crown and a case of Sleemans? as to ease the pain, lol....maybe?

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Old
11-22-2012, 03:07 PM
  #774
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Burke's ability to learn has always been in question. He hasn't yet learned to acquire legit goaltenders no matter where he's been. You would think that because this essentially ended his tenure in VAN, and looks to be endangering his job in TO, that he would learn from past mistakes. But yet here we are...?
When Brian Burke arrived in Toronto their Goalies was Vesa Toskala, Curtis Joseph and Just Pogge who were drafted/traded for by JFJ or Cliff Fletcher. Plus James Reimer was a draft pick of JFJ in 2006. Since then Burke signed Jonas Gustavsson, Ben Scrivens and traded for JS Giguere.

In the short term Giguere was good after Toskala was traded, however injuries to Giguere and Gustavsson's health made James Reimer their #1 Goalie for a good amount of the 2010-2011 season and his play was outstanding to keep that position.

Finally I said before if it wasn't for Reimer getting injured against Montreal during the 2011-2012 season he would still be their #1 Goalie and Toronto is not in the Luongo trade talks. After all Reimer was 4-0-1 with a respectable G.A.A. and save % until he got injured, however with time hopefully that's all behind him. So I don't think Burke has messed up the Goalie system in Toronto compared to what he did in Vancouver.

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11-22-2012, 03:31 PM
  #775
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Looking at the teams that would be in on Schneider, I have:

Toronto
Tampa
Edmonton
Chicago
New York Islanders * (If there is a buyout in the new CBA)
Columbus
Washington
Philadelphia (If there is a buyout in the new CBA)

For Luongo I have:
Toronto
Florida
Edmonton
Washington
Chicago

I had a thought....maybe we should not totally dismiss Tampa from consideration. Their new goalie is not setting the word on fire in Finland and that is a very veteran team that is built to win now. They may still be a player. I dismissed them as I thought they'd only be in for Schneider but did not have the right assets to carry the trade. But for Lou, they do have the assets....or in particular one asset that does fit very well. That's Connolly who we discussed at length in Schneider proposals.

With Poliout signed, Conacher and Kucherov developing nicely they are not as pinched on wing prospects as they used to be. Their goaltending still really stands out as a significant risk and coming back from the lockout I wonder how much they need to appeal to the goodwill of the fans.

I think there is a fit there.

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