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Lockout discussion thread 2.0

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Old
11-22-2012, 01:18 PM
  #926
MTL-rules
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Originally Posted by 68 View Post
**** Cole, Gorges, Prust and all the other players who are responsible for this lockout. I don't even give a ****, this lockout can last 5 years. Seeing these greedy players whine and lose money is worth it.
It amazes me how many people don't know anything about what a lockout is

... I won't get into this hilarious debate, but one very ironic thing is seing fans wearing a player's jersey and complaining about him while taking the owners side... funny to say the least...

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11-22-2012, 01:24 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
No, they'll just end up having the same working conditions and pay as in the 1950s.
No, there is no industry EVER in occident that turned back to their working conditions and pay of the 1950s (especially not the ones with unions), I have no idea what you are talking about.

When Hammer say that time is against the players, he is 100 % right (That's also Vincent Damphousse opinion btw). If they wait too long, Bettman and the owners will cancel the season. Eventually, if that's what happen, you will see the players bend their knees and cry like little girls like the last lockout and they will make bigger concessions than they are right now. Hell, if I would be an owner I would ask to remove the guaranteed contracts and now that would be a real diminution in their working conditions.

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11-22-2012, 01:26 PM
  #928
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Originally Posted by HCH View Post
It the strike took place just before the playoffs they would be eligible for the majority of their contracts. It is the playoffs where the league makes money and that money helps to pay the regular season salaries. The players make minimal money compared to the regular season and striking just before the playoffs would give the NHLPA all of the leverage.

That would be the incentive for a strike at that time.
They can't go on strike before the POs, the CBA is signed through september. They have no reason to go on strike this year. Pretty sure they could get sued if they ever did. People can hate Bettman for various reasons, but the man is not an idiot. He's a very smart lawyer.
Players make zero dollars from salary in the POs. Their pay is only for the regular season.

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11-22-2012, 01:26 PM
  #929
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Originally Posted by Protest the Hero View Post
They're okay with their players going off on Bettman and Daly over twitter though?



If they didn't lockout though, and hadn't reached an agreement by the playoffs, the players would go on strike. Before these negotiations started I would have said anyone was crazy for suggesting hockey players would go on strike into the playoffs, now I'm 100% sure they would. These guys are bitter, and considering their grammar, and name calling they've resorted too, most of them aren't very smart. "sorry guys someone hacked my twitter account"
FYI nobody has good grammar on twitter, there is a 140 character limit.

That said, the players write better than most of this forum.

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11-22-2012, 01:27 PM
  #930
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Gene Principe ‏@GenePrincipe
"I’ve been in the league for 20 years, faced three lockouts.Only 14 guys have done that. I’ve earned right to say what I think."R.Hamrlik
**** just got real.


inb4 Cole responds with: "But has he won a cup?"


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Old
11-22-2012, 01:31 PM
  #931
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
FYI nobody has good grammar on twitter, there is a 140 character limit.

That said, the players write better than most of this forum.
Having an internet hockey board as a standard isn't that great.

But I agree, it's irrelevant.

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11-22-2012, 01:31 PM
  #932
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Originally Posted by Forsead View Post
No, there is no industry EVER in occident that turned back to their working conditions and pay of the 1950s (especially not the ones with unions), I have no idea what you are talking about.

When Hammer say that time his against the players, he is 100 % right (That's also Vincent Damphousse opinion btw). If they wait too long Bettman and the owners will cancel the season. Eventually if that's what happen, you will see the players bend their knees and cry like little girls like the last lockout and they will make bigger concessions than they are right now. Hell, if I would be an owner I would ask to remove the guaranteed contracts and now that would be a real diminution in their working conditions.
Industry everywhere in north America is turning back the clock. Current levels of income inequality are actually at 1920s levels. Median wages are 25% below their peak in 1973, etc.

That is the general trend, players should fight or else they will.lost all of their historical gains, as have many job classes.

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11-22-2012, 01:31 PM
  #933
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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
It amazes me how many people don't know anything about what a lockout is

... I won't get into this hilarious debate, but one very ironic thing is seing fans wearing a player's jersey and complaining about him while taking the owners side... funny to say the least...
This doesn't make sense. I get the reference to lockout being owner generated but the bold...what?

Besides the fact few people are wearing hockey jerseys these days, assuming they were and openly on the owners side...so what? Is there some kind of rip in space and time if someone likes the player on the ice but not the NHLPA's position? Is it that far fetched? I'd think it's pretty normal. Love the game, love the players on the ice but don't like players position in CBA issues, what's wrong with that?

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11-22-2012, 01:32 PM
  #934
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Originally Posted by Whereabouts Unknown View Post
Gene Principe ‏@GenePrincipe
"I’ve been in the league for 20 years, faced three lockouts.Only 14 guys have done that. I’ve earned right to say what I think."R.Hamrlik
Amen.

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11-22-2012, 01:32 PM
  #935
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
They can't go on strike before the POs, the CBA is signed through september. They have no reason to go on strike this year. Pretty sure they could get sued if they ever did. People can hate Bettman for various reasons, but the man is not an idiot. He's a very smart lawyer.
Players make zero dollars from salary in the POs. Their pay is only for the regular season.
I meant the upcoming playoffs.

If the players continued to play with no CBA they would get 57% of HRR and could then strike just before the playoffs. Since they don't collect any salary for the playoffs, they would have one more year at 57% of HRR and would be out zero dollars.

So, I agree... Bettman is smart. He locked the players out to avoid this situation.

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11-22-2012, 01:33 PM
  #936
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Industry everywhere in north America is turning back the clock. Current levels of income inequality are actually at 1920s levels. Median wages are 25% below their peak in 1973, etc.

That is the general trend, players should fight or else they will.lost all of their historical gains, as have many job classes.
What about mean wages?

Median doesn't really say much for me.

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11-22-2012, 01:35 PM
  #937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Industry everywhere in north America is turning back the clock. Current levels of income inequality are actually at 1920s levels. Median wages are 25% below their peak in 1973, etc.

That is the general trend, players should fight or else they will.lost all of their historical gains, as have many job classes.
That's only because there is alot of unemployment due to a terrible financial depression. What were the numbers for 2007 ?

Income inequality aren't relevant here, especially since we're talking about peoples in the top 1 %(players and owners).

And doesn't you see that if they wait to much they will loose way more like I said in my previous post ?

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11-22-2012, 01:36 PM
  #938
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Industry everywhere in north America is turning back the clock. Current levels of income inequality are actually at 1920s levels. Median wages are 25% below their peak in 1973, etc.

That is the general trend, players should fight or else they will.lost all of their historical gains, as have many job classes.
The problem is that unions don't really protect jobs. The economy is now global and the job market competitive. Apple is considered by many to be the icon of American companies but they build their phones in China. Do you think a union would have protected those jobs?

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11-22-2012, 01:37 PM
  #939
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Now that we are still locked out at the end of November, do you really believe earlier negotiating was going to lead to a resolution? This lockout is about using lost wages and revenue to put pressure on the other side.

No, NHL players will have plenty of money too. Everyone involved is rich, some richer than others. But for some reason, posters here mention player wealth much more than they do owner wealth. Maybe because it's more public, especially with the cap, I don't know. Even the most casual fans know Gomez's cap hit, but the most intense fans don't know Molson's earnings. Whatever the reason, the argument that "players make a lot of money, so the owners must be right" is misleading.
The same thing happened in Wisconsin when governor Walker attacked unions to give tax cuts to the Koch brothers.

Lots of people complained that teachers make $70000\year for an easy, fun job. Those same people did not have a problem with the wealth of those who would benefit from the cuts.

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11-22-2012, 01:39 PM
  #940
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
What about mean wages?

Median doesn't really say much for me.
Median wage is the more relevant statistic, as it is not effected by a few hundred people making mine figures.

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11-22-2012, 01:40 PM
  #941
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
The same thing happened in Wisconsin when governor Walker attacked unions to give tax cuts to the Koch brothers.

Lots of people complained that teachers make $70000\year for an easy, fun job. Those same people did not have a problem with the wealth of those who would benefit from the cuts.
The difference is that most owners wealth is not related to hockey.

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11-22-2012, 01:41 PM
  #942
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Originally Posted by Forsead View Post
That's only because there is alot of unemployment due to a terrible financial depression. What were the numbers for 2007 ?

Income inequality aren't relevant here, especially since we're talking about peoples in the top 1 %(players and owners).

And doesn't you see that if they wait to much they will loose way more like I said in my previous post ?
The number in 2007 or so was a 12% decline.

If you are middle class, there has been no growth in 40 years, just bigher debt levels.

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11-22-2012, 01:41 PM
  #943
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Median wage is the more relevant statistic, as it is not effected by a few hundred people making mine figures.
But it's lowered, because of the numerous students/youth having minimum salry job while not working in their ''real'' future job.

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11-22-2012, 01:42 PM
  #944
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"Players caused the lockout."


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Old
11-22-2012, 01:43 PM
  #945
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
The number in 2007 or so was a 12% decline.

If you are middle class, there has been no growth in 40 years, justifier debt levels.


Well you see that 12 % is much less than you made it out in the first place...

In bold, that's their problem if they can't handle their money.

And you still don't comment on the fact that Hammer is right about the idea that the time is starting to get thin for the players, because they can loose alot more than they are right now.

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11-22-2012, 01:45 PM
  #946
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But it's lowered, because of the numerous students/youth having minimum salry job while not working in their ''real'' future job.
I don't think you know what a median is.

edit: nevermind.

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11-22-2012, 01:48 PM
  #947
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Heres a thought, they are about 180 million dollars apart on the money side of it. Thats about 1.3million dollars per team per year for 5 years, why not reduce the salary cap a further 1.3 million dollars x 30 teams gives them their 180 million over 5 years.

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11-22-2012, 01:48 PM
  #948
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
"Players caused the lockout."

brb not negociating with the NHL before june.
brb they knew what would happen.
brb not accountable for their actions.

Gary Betaman is the one who decided to impose the lockout, but the PA doesn't negociate. Fehr is after something bigger.

In the end, either he's fired, Buttman's fired or there's a new league.

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11-22-2012, 01:49 PM
  #949
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
I don't think you know what a median is.
No, I don't think you are...

In a population, let say 1 million, the median would be the salary of the 500 000th person better paid.

If there is 100 000 student earning minimum salary (then again fiction). The median salary will be lower than it should be. Also, It doesn't have the higher paid peoples to ajust the number more to the reality.

Edit : sorry didn't saw you edit.

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11-22-2012, 01:51 PM
  #950
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Originally Posted by missthenet View Post
Heres a thought, they are about 180 million dollars apart on the money side of it. Thats about 1.3million dollars per team per year for 5 years, why not reduce the salary cap a further 1.3 million dollars x 30 teams gives them their 180 million over 5 years.
Isn't the salary cap in these proposals already fixed at 58 million? Funny how there isn't any reporting as to what is happening to the cap ceiling & floor with all those talks.

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