HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Offseason Madness the 7th: Jose Reyes edition

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-22-2012, 03:05 PM
  #76
danishh
Dat Stache
 
danishh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: mtl/ott/somewhere
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,710
vCash: 500
Demarlo Hale has interviewed for the bench coach spot. Currently orioles 3b coach and was a finalist for the jays manager job in 2010. Smart guy with a ton of experience.

danishh is offline  
Old
11-22-2012, 03:11 PM
  #77
pooleboy
#tankformcdavid
 
pooleboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Ontario
Posts: 5,890
vCash: 500
idk why everyone is so quick to get rid of Rasmus. People were talking about all star before all the injuries. I know its tough to say this but with some of the injuries i feel as if the players just gave up, they knew they weren't going to make the playoffs so training didn't become as important (i know this is bad to say but someone recently said this about Romero and idk what happened but he could have just given up.)
i see the same thing with Rasmus, and i really hope we give him more of a chance, he knows with melky and bautista in the OF he is the weak link and he needs to work hard this summer to stay

pooleboy is online now  
Old
11-22-2012, 03:19 PM
  #78
Kessley Snipes
Registered User
 
Kessley Snipes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,272
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by weems View Post
Elite defense, speed and arm are NEVER redundant qualities in CF.

The fact that you say something like "Colby will be here for awhile whether you like it or not" shows that your extremely biased on this subject. At the end of the day not a single person in this thread or fanbase has ANY idea who will be the CF going forward so stop acting like you have some inside insight.

It's really hilarious to see how much of this fanbase craps on Gose. I guess they must have been big fans of Brett Wallace and hated that trade from day 1.
I never acted like I had any inside insight. However given the fact that we have a 26 year old CF with all the qualities of a 5 tool player, under team control for the next few seasons, I think it is safe to say that Colby will be here for a long time

Nobody here is crapping on Gose. However at this point Colby has the better bat, and his range in Center Field doesnt leave anything to be desired. It would be a downgrade at this point in their careers to trade Colby and start Gose in CF for 2013. Which is why I stated that Gose likely wont have a position on this team for at least the next 2 seasons.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasty Nazem View Post

It doesn't matter much right now as Colby won't be traded and Gose will start out in Buffalo but long-term, he is the CF. I don't have much faith in Rasmus anymore, he is a platoon bat whose 2010 season looks more and more like an outlier at this point. If he has a decent or even a solid season and Gose continues to improve in Buffalo, Jays should sell high.
This is likely where you and I differ. You see Rasmus as a platoon and I see him as the type of hitter who can excel given the right lineup. A lineup which we currently have. Like I stated before, when Rasmus was hitting in front of Jose and EE he was putting the ball in play, showing some power and had an excellent approach to his at bats. He was patient and didnt feel like he was carrying the weight of the offense. When Jose went down everything changed; as typically happens when your best batter is removed from the lineup.

I honestly believe Gose won't figure out his bat. You can call it irrational, but I am of the opinion that if he was going to develop into an Austin Jackson type player, he would have shown more promise with his bat than he has up until this point.



Quote:
Originally Posted by weems View Post
Start d'Arnaud and Gose in AAA.
If they tear it up the first 1-2 months, put a trade package of Rasmus+JPA together and bring the 2 young players up.

I dont doubt Rasmus could have a really good year here or there but I seriously wonder just how consistant this guy will be year in year out.
If TDA tears it up in Buffalo and Lind struggles, would you be opposed to calling up TDA to catch and placing JP at first in a platoon with EE? Why rush a trade when we essentially can keep all of our assets and adequately plug any holes at the same time?

Kessley Snipes is offline  
Old
11-22-2012, 03:21 PM
  #79
Nasty Nazem
The North Remembers
 
Nasty Nazem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In my house... duh!
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,810
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyedea View Post
Players are eligible for selection in the Rule 5 draft who are not on their major league organization's 40-man roster and:
– were signed at age 19 or older and have been in the organization for four years; or
– were signed at age 18 or younger and have been in the organization for five years.
Also, the players selected via Rule 5 are required to stay on the 25 man roster for the whole season. So usually, teams that suck are the ones looking to pick someone up, someone that has any sort of chance to be a regular (most guys exposed are either not good to be regulars or utility players/relievers). I don't think we will see Jays draft a player unless its a utility player and an upgrade over Goins. I don't expect any one of Jays players to be picked up.

Nasty Nazem is offline  
Old
11-22-2012, 03:26 PM
  #80
topched
Registered User
 
topched's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,960
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blader258 View Post
I never acted like I had any inside insight. However given the fact that we have a 26 year old CF with all the qualities of a 5 tool player, under team control for the next few seasons, I think it is safe to say that Colby will be here for a long time
I don't know if its fair to say he will be here for a long time. He'll be here for the duration of this year at least, after he signs in arb. But if he has another year like he just had, and it seems like he'll never be able to actually use all those 5 tools at the same time... it might be best to move on and give Gose the reigns.

Quote:

Nobody here is crapping on Gose. However at this point Colby has the better bat, and his range in Center Field doesnt leave anything to be desired. It would be a downgrade at this point in their careers to trade Colby and start Gose in CF for 2013. Which is why I stated that Gose likely wont have a position on this team for at least the next 2 seasons.
This is definitely right, at least at this point in time with this team... Gose probably doesn't give us the production we need... but if he's hot after the first couple months and they're happy with his ab's in AAA then I could see him coming up and spelling guys at LF/CF/RF/DH

Quote:
This is likely where you and I differ. You see Rasmus as a platoon and I see him as the type of hitter who can excel given the right lineup. A lineup which we currently have. Like I stated before, when Rasmus was hitting in front of Jose and EE he was putting the ball in play, showing some power and had an excellent approach to his at bats. He was patient and didnt feel like he was carrying the weight of the offense. When Jose went down everything changed; as typically happens when your best batter is removed from the lineup.

I honestly believe Gose won't figure out his bat. You can call it irrational, but I am of the opinion that if he was going to develop into an Austin Jackson type player, he would have shown more promise with his bat than he has up until this point.
Gose is way way way too raw a prospect to think he won't figure out his bat. The kid has been running on pure talent alone at this point, and has yet to really refine his approach at the plate... he's been basically told how to approach ab's up to this point... like at AA when they let him swing away and told him not to bunt... so that he could get his mechanics right. Jackson was mediocre when he was first up with Detroit and developed into the guy he is today after that. Gose just needs to put together some better ab's... his walk rate is already trending up, its more reducing those k's and having more consistent plate appearances.



Quote:
If TDA tears it up in Buffalo and Lind struggles, would you be opposed to calling up TDA to catch and placing JP at first in a platoon with EE? Why rush a trade when we essentially can keep all of our assets and adequately plug any holes at the same time?
This is probably the most likely scenario IMO. I just can't see AA giving TDA the reigns to an all-vet staff at this point. If he came up in that role it would be great. He could get regular ab's between 1b, DH and C... Mike Napoli style.

topched is offline  
Old
11-22-2012, 03:29 PM
  #81
Scion
Registered User
 
Scion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,025
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyedea View Post
Yes I'm definitely exaggerating, but wasn't Gose clocked in the mid 90s during his senior year of HS? That's pretty insane if you ask me.
Yeah, he was. Gose's arm is definitely a plus asset, it's just that Rick Ankiel has a 70 arm (as a SP) with plus-plus accuracy from the OF.

Scion is offline  
Old
11-22-2012, 03:53 PM
  #82
HappyGilmourr
Registered User
 
HappyGilmourr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Milton
Posts: 5,330
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by danishh View Post
Demarlo Hale has interviewed for the bench coach spot. Currently orioles 3b coach and was a finalist for the jays manager job in 2010. Smart guy with a ton of experience.
yes please

In all honesty I don't even no a lot about the guy but the fact he was a candidate to be a Red Sox manager this year and a Blue Jay manager in 2010 is all i need to no. That type of guy is WELCOME to the coaching staff. Zaun spoke about Gibbons being a more laid back manager and lets his coaching staff do the work with the players, we will need a strong coaching staff. I wonder why he is even interviewing when he is already employed by the O's.

HappyGilmourr is offline  
Old
11-22-2012, 03:58 PM
  #83
topched
Registered User
 
topched's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,960
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bozak View Post
yes please

In all honesty I don't even no a lot about the guy but the fact he was a candidate to be a Red Sox manager this year and a Blue Jay manager in 2010 is all i need to no. That type of guy is WELCOME to the coaching staff. Zaun spoke about Gibbons being a more laid back manager and lets his coaching staff do the work with the players, we will need a strong coaching staff. I wonder why he is even interviewing when he is already employed by the O's.
He's not employed by the O's. Like most coaches, he's on a 1 year deal. Every offseason they are "free agents" of sorts, they are free to pursue any job they want, mostly promotions to other orgs.

Word is Baltimore is trying to convince him to stay... but he's a 3b coach there now, and would be the bench boss here.

topched is offline  
Old
11-22-2012, 04:04 PM
  #84
danishh
Dat Stache
 
danishh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: mtl/ott/somewhere
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,710
vCash: 500
i think literally the only knock on hale for the jays bench coach spot is that he's not dominican, or at least hispanic. I think we can fill that quota somewhere else though.


note: he, like farrell, was also in on the bosox job in 2011, but the bosox wanted to bring in someone from outside the francona regime. So he was considered for AL east managerial jobs in 2010, 2011, and 2012.

danishh is offline  
Old
11-22-2012, 04:08 PM
  #85
topched
Registered User
 
topched's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,960
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by danishh View Post
i think literally the only knock on hale for the jays bench coach spot is that he's not dominican, or at least hispanic. I think we can fill that quota somewhere else though.


note: he, like farrell, was also in on the bosox job in 2011, but the bosox wanted to bring in someone from outside the francona regime. So he was considered for AL east managerial jobs in 2010, 2011, and 2012.
My ideal coaching staff:

Manager: John Gibbons
Bench: Hale/Waka/Gibby's choice
First Base: Dwayne Murphy (alternate hitting instructor)
Third Base: Gibby's guy (latin, maybe Rivera)

Pitching coach: Bruce Walton
Hitting coach: Chad Mottola

Murphy coached 1st when Cito first came back... so he's done that before. I think keeping him around is beneficial, because some of our stars like Jose and EE got their bats going with him here. Ideal to keep them happy but still get some of the struggling/younger guys to work with Mottola.

topched is offline  
Old
11-22-2012, 04:15 PM
  #86
Faidh ar Rud Eigin
Modhnóirí Claonta
 
Faidh ar Rud Eigin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Transcendent
Country: Isle of Man
Posts: 16,694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by danishh View Post
Demarlo Hale has interviewed for the bench coach spot. Currently orioles 3b coach and was a finalist for the jays manager job in 2010. Smart guy with a ton of experience.
He has a contract with the Orioles next season (Something Butterfield and Lovullo did not with the Jays), and they aren't expected to let him go unless he gets a management job.

I don't see why Wakamatsu can't stay, he's done an excellent job.

Faidh ar Rud Eigin is offline  
Old
11-22-2012, 04:19 PM
  #87
topched
Registered User
 
topched's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,960
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
He has a contract with the Orioles next season (Something Butterfield and Lovullo did not with the Jays), and they aren't expected to let him go unless he gets a management job.

I don't see why Wakamatsu can't stay, he's done an excellent job.
Straight outta the Baltimore Sun (for about the 5th time):

Quote:
Orioles third-base coach DeMarlo Hale, one of two coaches the team has yet to resign, has interviewed for the Toronto Blue Jays bench coach job, an industry source has confirmed

topched is offline  
Old
11-22-2012, 05:11 PM
  #88
The Nemesis
Global Moderator
Semper Tyrannus
 
The Nemesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Langley, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 48,639
vCash: 500
I can't see Wakamatsu staying if Hale came aboard, which kinda sucks. Arencibia's made some solid defensive strides the last couple years, and he credits Wakamatsu with that. I would love to see him stay here to work with d'Arnaud as well. He may not be the right guy to manage the team on the whole, but as a bench coach where he works with specific guys and has more specific duties he seems like a great fit.

But anything that shifts Murphy to a base coach and has him only work as a hitting guy with the players for whom his approach works (Bautista, Encarnacion, and now Buck again too) is fine by me.

__________________

"Do you know what "nemesis" means? A righteous infliction of retribution manifested by an appropriate agent."
'14-15 Sharks CI Tracker: 35 GP, 13-17-5 (home-away-Nat'l/In-Region)
Sorry, I am not taking signature requests at this time.
The Nemesis is offline  
Old
11-22-2012, 05:13 PM
  #89
Bjindaho
Registered User
 
Bjindaho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,379
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by topched View Post
My ideal coaching staff:

Manager: John Gibbons
Bench: Hale/Waka/Gibby's choice
First Base: Dwayne Murphy (alternate hitting instructor)
Third Base: Gibby's guy (latin, maybe Rivera)

Pitching coach: Bruce Walton
Hitting coach: Chad Mottola

Murphy coached 1st when Cito first came back... so he's done that before. I think keeping him around is beneficial, because some of our stars like Jose and EE got their bats going with him here. Ideal to keep them happy but still get some of the struggling/younger guys to work with Mottola.
Bruce Walton needs to not have employment. He is terrible

Bjindaho is offline  
Old
11-22-2012, 05:22 PM
  #90
topched
Registered User
 
topched's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,960
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bjindaho View Post
Bruce Walton needs to not have employment. He is terrible
I'm wondering what you think is so bad about him?

I certainly don't think the injuries had anything to do with him.

Who would you want over him thats actually available?

Arnsberg?
Hentgen?
Walker?

topched is offline  
Old
11-22-2012, 05:28 PM
  #91
sparxx87
Registered User
 
sparxx87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Etobicoke
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,891
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasty Nazem View Post
Also, the players selected via Rule 5 are required to stay on the 25 man roster for the whole season. So usually, teams that suck are the ones looking to pick someone up, someone that has any sort of chance to be a regular (most guys exposed are either not good to be regulars or utility players/relievers). I don't think we will see Jays draft a player unless its a utility player and an upgrade over Goins. I don't expect any one of Jays players to be picked up.
I could see Joel Carreno getting picked up by someone..

sparxx87 is offline  
Old
11-22-2012, 05:28 PM
  #92
Bjindaho
Registered User
 
Bjindaho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,379
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by topched View Post
I'm wondering what you think is so bad about him?

I certainly don't think the injuries had anything to do with him.

Who would you want over him thats actually available?

Arnsberg?
Hentgen?
Walker?
Cone would be my preference.

The problem with Walton is the same problem that Murphy has. Once a guy starts struggling, he hasn't a clue how to fix them (see Cecil, Romero last year, Drabek).

Bjindaho is offline  
Old
11-22-2012, 05:36 PM
  #93
Quik
Agent 0091
 
Quik's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Unknown
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,897
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bjindaho View Post
Cone would be my preference.

The problem with Walton is the same problem that Murphy has. Once a guy starts struggling, he hasn't a clue how to fix them (see Cecil, Romero last year, Drabek).
That's actually a really interesting suggestion. Cone is a bright guy and has really took to sabremetrics, but I don't know how great of a coach he'd be, it's not like a pitching coach tells a pitcher: "you've gotta have a LOB% of 75% and a K:BB of 3:1", they help you develop the tools to do that.

I'd be open to it though

Quik is offline  
Old
11-22-2012, 05:39 PM
  #94
Bjindaho
Registered User
 
Bjindaho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,379
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quik View Post
That's actually a really interesting suggestion. Cone is a bright guy and has really took to sabremetrics, but I don't know how great of a coach he'd be, it's not like a pitching coach tells a pitcher: "you've gotta have a LOB% of 75% and a K:BB of 3:1", they help you develop the tools to do that.

I'd be open to it though
But he's someone who had to learn how to pitch (who was a thrower). He's someone who could show pitchers their stats if they are interested...

Bjindaho is offline  
Old
11-22-2012, 05:46 PM
  #95
PantherboyHTR
An Old School Cat
 
PantherboyHTR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Blue Jay Nation...
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,443
vCash: 500
Two questions:

1. With all these new players added, do you all think Oliver would stay for another year before retirement?

2. Is it likely AA finds a pitcher in the Rule V draft who could go to the bullpen and spot-start when needed for injuries (eg. Laffey)?

Sooooo pumped for this season to start!!!

PantherboyHTR is offline  
Old
11-22-2012, 05:48 PM
  #96
The Nemesis
Global Moderator
Semper Tyrannus
 
The Nemesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Langley, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 48,639
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quik View Post
That's actually a really interesting suggestion. Cone is a bright guy and has really took to sabremetrics, but I don't know how great of a coach he'd be, it's not like a pitching coach tells a pitcher: "you've gotta have a LOB% of 75% and a K:BB of 3:1", they help you develop the tools to do that.

I'd be open to it though
Just because he understands advanced math doesn't mean that would be how he coaches. What it would mean is that he can look at the data to help him analyze problems and point things out to guys. If anything it helps it puts another tool in the coaching toolbox.

Though honestly I'm not sure where the idea of Cone ever came from. Has he been rumored for any coaching jobs anywhere to substantiate the idea that he even wants to be a coach?

The Nemesis is offline  
Old
11-22-2012, 05:52 PM
  #97
Paladin2799
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,668
vCash: 500
I think the easiest transition of Gose becomes a regular MLB player would be to shift Jbats to 1st, EE to DH, and run a OF of Cabrera/Gose/Rasmus.

Rasmus has good power, good defense, and would certainly fill that RF position easily. Gose is a typical speedy CF and he should stay in that position.

That is assuming Rasmus actually becomes a quality hitter and not the streaky guy he is now.

Paladin2799 is offline  
Old
11-22-2012, 06:06 PM
  #98
Quik
Agent 0091
 
Quik's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Unknown
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,897
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
Just because he understands advanced math doesn't mean that would be how he coaches. What it would mean is that he can look at the data to help him analyze problems and point things out to guys. If anything it helps it puts another tool in the coaching toolbox.

Though honestly I'm not sure where the idea of Cone ever came from. Has he been rumored for any coaching jobs anywhere to substantiate the idea that he even wants to be a coach?
No, I totally agree that that's not how he would coach, I'm just saying that I don't know how good of a coach he would be. The quote thing I put in was more to emphasize the point that it's more than that.

Quik is offline  
Old
11-22-2012, 06:14 PM
  #99
Bjindaho
Registered User
 
Bjindaho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,379
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
Just because he understands advanced math doesn't mean that would be how he coaches. What it would mean is that he can look at the data to help him analyze problems and point things out to guys. If anything it helps it puts another tool in the coaching toolbox.

Though honestly I'm not sure where the idea of Cone ever came from. Has he been rumored for any coaching jobs anywhere to substantiate the idea that he even wants to be a coach?
I said that I vehemently disagree with the idea of keeping Walton and someone asked for who would be an upgrade.

There's nothing to say that he wants to be a coach but he does do analysis and most guys who hang around the game want to have as much contact with it as possible.

Bjindaho is offline  
Old
11-22-2012, 06:18 PM
  #100
Giuseppe Sallo
ELE-VAT-ED
 
Giuseppe Sallo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Oakville, Ontario.
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,639
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin2799 View Post
I think the easiest transition of Gose becomes a regular MLB player would be to shift Jbats to 1st, EE to DH, and run a OF of Cabrera/Gose/Rasmus.

Rasmus has good power, good defense, and would certainly fill that RF position easily. Gose is a typical speedy CF and he should stay in that position.

That is assuming Rasmus actually becomes a quality hitter and not the streaky guy he is now.
Gose is the next Devon White. He's got speed to burn. Rasmus, I would shift him to RF, yes I would.

Giuseppe Sallo is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:32 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.