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AA is for real, now itís Burkeís turn to make a deal

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Old
11-22-2012, 07:58 AM
  #1
WeWantACup
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AA is for real, now itís Burkeís turn to make a deal

read this

http://www.wewantacup.com/headlines/...to-make-a-deal

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Old
11-22-2012, 09:55 AM
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BlueMapleDawg
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I'm not trying to sound like a jackass but it doesn't really say anything.

Maybe add some of your own solutions you think are possible/feasible? That way people will have something to say.

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Old
11-22-2012, 09:56 AM
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anderson3133
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How is he going to make a deal when there isn't even a CBA?

Also, the second sentence is a massive comma splice.

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Old
11-22-2012, 10:01 AM
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Funk Volume
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I really don't understand why Burke *has* to make a deal just because AA did, like to me that argument is stupid. What AA does should have nothing to do with what Burke does.

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Old
11-22-2012, 10:02 AM
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ACC1224
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Already been discussed at length.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1283909

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Old
11-22-2012, 10:06 AM
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MildlyAwesome
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anderson3133 View Post
How is he going to make a deal when there isn't even a CBA?

Also, the second sentence is a massive comma splice.
More than that. The article is missing colons, lots of other punctuation, and any semblance of style that makes it readable.

And AA made a great deal but has yet to win any games from it. Wait until next June before we start deciding on how good that deal was. A lot of the arguments are poor. Burke isn't going to make a deal because AA made one. They are not GMs in the same sport. On top of that, the Blue Jays aren't a threat to the Leafs from a money-standpoint. The Leafs make almost as much profit as the #2 and #3 teams in the NHL do combined. The Leafs are incredibly successful and will not suffer any loss once hockey comes back - it's the smaller markets that will.

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Old
11-22-2012, 10:09 AM
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The Jays, Argos, or Raptors will never unseat the Leafs from the #1 position in Toronto sports. Any attempt to assert otherwise is foolish.

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Old
11-22-2012, 10:12 AM
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I guess Kessel, Phaneuf, Gardiner, Lupul all magically showed up on the roster.

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Old
11-22-2012, 10:38 AM
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Dear Stefan Hoogerbrugge (author of the article),

An okay article that needs improvement.

You provided many positive assertions. This is good and one part of the writing process. Good work.

However, you did not follow up with any actual argumentation for your assertions. Remember: an assertion is only as good as it can be argued for.

For the times that you did provide argumentation, it was merely an argument that described the circumstances. For example, you said, "Now, with the emergence of a star studded Toronto Blue Jays team, a Grey Cup challenging Toronto Argonauts football team, and a young and exciting Toronto Raptors squad, the Leafs are at serious risk of losing fans, and losing them fast". So, the question to ask would be, how exactly will this be the cause of the Leafs losing fan attendance? Providing an answer will enhance your argument.

Additionally, in your article, better argumentation can be accounted for by not making radical claims. An argument doesn't need to be always in support of a radical claim, but can be for a modest claim. You say, "Now I realize that is stating the obvious, but before the emergence of the other Toronto sports franchises, there really was no pressure on the Leafs to perform..." First, is this even true? Is a franchise who hasn't won a Stanley Cup in over 40 years in one of hockey's largest settings without 'pressure to perform'? Doesn't this alone show that the team always had pressure to perform and that it doesn't directly matter what other Toronto Sports team do?

Grade: C

Please, do not hesitate to contact me with any questions or concerns (if you have any).

-Epic.

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Old
11-22-2012, 10:44 AM
  #10
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Raptors suck so, Argo's are in the CFL and as good as the Jays may be... the Leafs are in no threat of losing fans.

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Old
11-22-2012, 10:45 AM
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So you guys don't think that other teams doing well will increase the pressure on Brian Burke to make a move? Obviously it will be hard as unlike hockey, baseball has no Salary Cap, but still just another pressure point for Burke. It's gotta get to him at some point!

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11-22-2012, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leafs6 View Post
So you guys don't think that other teams doing well will increase the pressure on Brian Burke to make a move? Obviously it will be hard as unlike hockey, baseball has no Salary Cap, but still just another pressure point for Burke. It's gotta get to him at some point!
The Jays havent even played a game yet with these new players... how are they doing well?

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Old
11-22-2012, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by leafs6 View Post
So you guys don't think that other teams doing well will increase the pressure on Brian Burke to make a move? Obviously it will be hard as unlike hockey, baseball has no Salary Cap, but still just another pressure point for Burke. It's gotta get to him at some point!
Other NHL team moves like for example say Carolina trading for a top line centre in Jordan Staal and signing UFA Alex Semin and then competing for a similar playoff spot in the Eastern conference is a greater pressure point on Burke and his own longevity that transactions in other sports.

I agree that if other major sports within the same city are having success, and he is not then it emphasizes his failures as there is a desire for Leaf fans to want similar success for reasons on envy, and the pressure point is greater through public opinion. Other examples of how those teams gained success would be fan factors in hoping Burke could emulate success by similar means, but not as much for Burke himself unless he believed that was a solution to his situation and team improvement.

If the Argo's win the Grey Cup that is a benefit to the city overall, but not a direct example of what Burke needs to do himself in terms of emulating transaction(s) in order to attempt to emulate success.

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Old
11-22-2012, 11:27 AM
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MLB is not the same as NHL. In the MLB, teams have way more prospects, and the Jays specifically had one of the top 2-3 deepest prospect pools in the league, mixed with a few older stars on the current roster that aren't going to be around forever.

There's also no salary cap.

The Leafs? Mediocre prospect pool, even worse roster than they Jays had last season, and there's a salary cap, so even if they make some big moves, it's unlikely they could keep the core together, and it's also unlikely they could even make a contender in the near future even if they did make some big moves.

Have some patience. How do you think the Jays got to the point where they could make a big move? They did it by selling of key veterans (Halladay, Wells, Marcum, etc), acquiring prospects (Lawrie, D'Arnaud, etc), and drafting aggressively. It took them YEARS to do that. The Leafs? They traded away some of their top picks. It's going to take an extra few years to recover from that most likely.

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Old
11-22-2012, 11:29 AM
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SeenSchenn2
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Different sport, different parameters.

empty article.

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Old
11-22-2012, 11:33 AM
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Ricky Bobby
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Dear Brian Burke,

Please don't try to rush or accelerate this rebuild. The best moves that you've made as our GM have been waiting for opportunities to come to you because of the issues of other teams:
-Like the Phaneuf deal
-The Versteeg deal (which in the end netted us a 1st and a 3rd which is a big upgrade from the only useful piece in Stalberg)
-The Lupul/Gardiner for Beauchemin deal

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Old
11-22-2012, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MildlyAwesome View Post
More than that. The article is missing colons, lots of other punctuation, and any semblance of style that makes it readable.

And AA made a great deal but has yet to win any games from it. Wait until next June before we start deciding on how good that deal was. A lot of the arguments are poor. Burke isn't going to make a deal because AA made one. They are not GMs in the same sport. On top of that, the Blue Jays aren't a threat to the Leafs from a money-standpoint. The Leafs make almost as much profit as the #2 and #3 teams in the NHL do combined. The Leafs are incredibly successful and will not suffer any loss once hockey comes back - it's the smaller markets that will.
Burke has completely overhauled the roster and has yet to win any games from it...so whats your point? Every franchise will suffer a loss of fans...it just wont impact those who can afford it. Like the Leafs...who are definitely in the minority. If this season is cancelled, I guarantee you, this Leaf fan of over 40 years will no longer waste my dwinding time on this planet watching these punks play a kids game for an exhoribitant amount of money and whine about it every 5 years.

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Old
11-22-2012, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epictetus View Post
"and a young and exciting Toronto Raptors squad, the Leafs are at serious risk of losing fans, and losing them fast".
Have you watched the Raptors play this year?? Especially the last couple of games?
4th quarter collapses are becoming part of the norm for them. The Raps are at more of a risk of losing fans than the Buds.

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Old
11-22-2012, 12:13 PM
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Ricky Bobby
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The Jays and the Argos are a risk for taking away revenue from the Leafs but it isn't a major risk largely due to there being very little overlap in when their seasons occur.

If the Raptors, FC or Marlies end up taking away revenue from the Leafs it also isn't a big deal because they're all owned by the same parent company.

The biggest risk for the Leafs as an organization is the threat of a new team coming into Southern Ontario.

Ultimately, winning (and playoffs) will produce higher revenues for the Leafs but that isn't new news.

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Old
11-22-2012, 02:20 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by SeenSchenn2 View Post
Different sport, different parameters.

empty article.
Same consumer base, same available disposable income.

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Old
11-22-2012, 02:30 PM
  #21
Durkin67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epictetus View Post
Dear Stefan Hoogerbrugge (author of the article),

An okay article that needs improvement.

You provided many positive assertions. This is good and one part of the writing process. Good work.

However, you did not follow up with any actual argumentation for your assertions. Remember: an assertion is only as good as it can be argued for.

For the times that you did provide argumentation, it was merely an argument that described the circumstances. For example, you said, "Now, with the emergence of a star studded Toronto Blue Jays team, a Grey Cup challenging Toronto Argonauts football team, and a young and exciting Toronto Raptors squad, the Leafs are at serious risk of losing fans, and losing them fast". So, the question to ask would be, how exactly will this be the cause of the Leafs losing fan attendance? Providing an answer will enhance your argument.

Additionally, in your article, better argumentation can be accounted for by not making radical claims. An argument doesn't need to be always in support of a radical claim, but can be for a modest claim. You say, "Now I realize that is stating the obvious, but before the emergence of the other Toronto sports franchises, there really was no pressure on the Leafs to perform..." First, is this even true? Is a franchise who hasn't won a Stanley Cup in over 40 years in one of hockey's largest settings without 'pressure to perform'? Doesn't this alone show that the team always had pressure to perform and that it doesn't directly matter what other Toronto Sports team do?

Grade: C

Please, do not hesitate to contact me with any questions or concerns (if you have any).

-Epic.

Ward, I think you're being a little hard on the 'Beav, here...

There's nothing overtly radical about suggesting the Leafs' monopoly on the disposable income/interest level/fan support runs the risk of being usurped by other more successful, "sexy" franchises who give fans reason to cast their lots with them and foresake their perennial Leaf-borne frustrations.

The author makes valid, and obvious points. There's only so much disposable income available to local sports franchises, and if the Leafs continue to fail in producing results, the number of die hard fans will dwindle. Corporate (sponsorship) interest and TV coverage may soon follow.

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Old
11-22-2012, 03:06 PM
  #22
Hanta Yo
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Better yet, just make AA the GM of the Leafs as well.

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Old
11-22-2012, 03:10 PM
  #23
Mr Pringles
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garbage article and a garbage site.

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Old
11-22-2012, 03:37 PM
  #24
ponder
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GM of a baseball team makes a big trade, PRESSURE IS ON BURKE TO MAKE A BIG TRADE TOO!!!11!!11!

Not exactly sound logic.

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Old
11-22-2012, 03:51 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Durkin67 View Post
Same consumer base, same available disposable income.
Really don't see why this needs to be addressed.

The way the sports work (prospect value, trading, FA's, budget, etc) is so different, you can't pull off the same type deal in the NHL.

Here's one example, if you want me to provide more I can. NHL drafts - 7 rounds, MLB - 40 rounds. Thus, you can trade more prospects because A. they're more of a sure thing in the MLB and B. more available talent (over 3 minor league affiliates).

It's stupid to suggest Burke can just make a deal of this capacity.

Just your typical blogger nonsense, IMO.

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