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Old
11-23-2012, 07:11 AM
  #51
Kshahdoo
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I think that 2nd proposal isn't that bad for Blues. As to Oilers, they get something as well. But it won't happen anyway...

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11-23-2012, 07:34 AM
  #52
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I think I'd do that. I know I'm in the minority of the Caps fans. Take Petry away and it's a no-go.

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Old
11-23-2012, 07:54 AM
  #53
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No way caps ship off they're two best d-man (alzner?). Even if it's for Eberle. Blues would say no as well. Pretty lopsided to be honest. Eberle is good, but come on...

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Old
11-23-2012, 08:01 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyMo35 View Post
Lol I have no idea why any Blues fan is turning this down. Sure Shatty is a very good player. I love him. Berglund has the tools to be a great player, hasn't exactly put everything together yet. I would take that trade in a heart beat. I know it leaves a hole at center, and is a slight downgrade at right D, but I think Eberle more than makes up for that. Move Steen to 2C, Oshie/Sobotka to 3C and the team is just fine.

Perron-Backes-Eberle
Mac-Steen-Oshie
D'Ags-Sobotka-Stewart
Reaves-Nichol-Langenbrunner

Cole-Petro
Jackman-Petry
Russell-Polak.

I love Shatty and Berglund as much as the next guy, but let's not pretend they're untouchable.
It is an easy pass from the Blues. On pure value it is in our favour, but we downgrade two areas where we have no strength in depth and make an upgrade in an area of significant strength.

You are right that Berglund and Shattenkirk aren't untouchable, but this trade wouldn't make the Blues any better.

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Old
11-23-2012, 08:37 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreator View Post
Eberle is a one-season wonder with an unsustainable shooting %.

No and no from Blues and Caps.
this will bite you in the ass at a later date

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Old
11-23-2012, 09:27 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by hlaverty06 View Post
This better be a joke...
why? Tell me how they get fair value. Eberle is a 22 year old all star winger who was tied for 15th in scoring last year. Petry is a young dman, just coming into his own, with #2 or #3 dman potential. Yes Carlson and Shattenkirk are upgrades over Petry, but nowhere enough of one with the other pieces included to make up for Eberle.

I can't believe an Oiler fan proposed these trades. Eberle is an Oiler, he loves being an Oiler. The kid is doubted at every level, and yet he produces every time. I want no part of moving Eberle.

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Old
11-23-2012, 09:35 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
John Carlson is already a serviceable 1st pairing defensemen.
who is not that much better than Petry, 7 more points in 9 more games played last year, playing only 30 seconds more a game and having a plus/minus rating of 8 goals worse as well. If Carlson is a first pairing dman, then Petry is one too. IMO, they are both 2nd pairing dmen at this point, with potential.

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Old
11-23-2012, 09:46 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
No way caps ship off they're two best d-man (alzner?). Even if it's for Eberle. Blues would say no as well. Pretty lopsided to be honest. Eberle is good, but come on...
Schultz...best...dman?


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Old
11-23-2012, 11:22 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by oilerbear View Post
Smid-Petry pair faced other teams best and had the 7th best d pair numbers. petry was on a 50PT season pace with Smid.

So you want to trade a guy who shows 50pt as season in the 7th best d pair numbers.
Plus Eberle?

Once Again! do your work before you throw out.......
I'd bet my bottom dollar that Shattenkirk out scores Petry next year. So the lost offense from the defense argument wouldn't hold up. If you want to argue that Petry plays better defense than Shattenkirk I can understand that. But Shattenkirk is a much better offensive player

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Old
11-23-2012, 11:27 AM
  #60
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the caps just inked carlson to a 6 year deal at just under $4m per. hockey anaylists as recently as his last game have suggested he is a norris trophy winner in the near future. those two things together mean you dont trade that player. period.
Pretty much this... Caps aren't trading Carlson.

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Old
11-23-2012, 11:27 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyMo35 View Post
Lol I have no idea why any Blues fan is turning this down. Sure Shatty is a very good player. I love him. Berglund has the tools to be a great player, hasn't exactly put everything together yet. I would take that trade in a heart beat. I know it leaves a hole at center, and is a slight downgrade at right D, but I think Eberle more than makes up for that. Move Steen to 2C, Oshie/Sobotka to 3C and the team is just fine.

Perron-Backes-Eberle
Mac-Steen-Oshie
D'Ags-Sobotka-Stewart
Reaves-Nichol-Langenbrunner

Cole-Petro
Jackman-Petry
Russell-Polak.

I love Shatty and Berglund as much as the next guy, but let's not pretend they're untouchable.
Eberle is not needed on the Blues. The front office has given every indication they believe Tarasenko will become that goal scorer we need. If Doug Armstrong believes that, well I trust him. Berglund cannot be traded unless another center comes back. I love me some Alex Steen, but the idea of him being the second line center is down right scary. Hitch likes big two way centers. And it's going to stay that way. Not to mention the fact that eberle is going to make almost 6 million a year for 6 years. Easy pass.

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Old
11-23-2012, 11:32 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by mcphllp View Post
lol get real. oilers get robbed in both of those
I say its fair value to both deal, maybe remove the 2nd pick in the Caps...

but both deal dont fit for the CAPS or the BLUES need, so both would decline that deal

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Old
11-23-2012, 12:03 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by BleedBlue247 View Post
Eberle is not needed on the Blues. The front office has given every indication they believe Tarasenko will become that goal scorer we need. If Doug Armstrong believes that, well I trust him. Berglund cannot be traded unless another center comes back. I love me some Alex Steen, but the idea of him being the second line center is down right scary. Hitch likes big two way centers. And it's going to stay that way. Not to mention the fact that eberle is going to make almost 6 million a year for 6 years. Easy pass.
Why would we only want one goal scorer? Tarasenko might end up being something special, but Eberle already is. 6x6 for Eberle is nothing, especially since we'll be giving up 2 guys that stand to make quite a bit of money in the next couple of years. Steen is not a huge guy, but he's not small either. He and Oshie or Sobotka could easily hold down the center spots. If not, one of Oshie/Steen/Stewart/Rattie/Schwartz could be traded for someone that could. This trade would be the Blues absolutely robbing the Oilers. Oshie and Steen can play the center. Both can skate, both are good defensively, and both understand the game exceptionally well. Just because someone isn't a "natural center" doesn't mean they can't play it at all. Backes is not a "natural center" and he's worked out just fine. I value Eberle a whole lot higher than Shattenkirk and Berglund.

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Old
11-23-2012, 12:28 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by alpine4life View Post
I say its fair value to both deal, maybe remove the 2nd pick in the Caps...

but both deal dont fit for the CAPS or the BLUES need, so both would decline that deal
this here. fair value is one thing. a realistic trade another entirely. in fantasy hockey eberle for carlson plus might be good. for the real hockey teams where chemistry and personalities and character have real value, its another story.

in the case of carlson, he's been the caps shutdown rd for two full seasons. he's had pretty much the same defense partner since he came to his first training camp and the two defensemen are greater than the sum of their parts. both players are signed and content and long term components of a playoff team.

gm's just dont trade those players.

i am not an oil fans and so i dont know eberle's situation. i dont see why the oilers would want to trade him.

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Old
11-23-2012, 01:55 PM
  #65
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Throw Stewart and Gagner in just to make things interesting during the lockout.

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Old
11-23-2012, 02:14 PM
  #66
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I like Carlson, i think he's a solid young dman with top pairing potential, but future Norris winner?? I don't see it, not even close right now.

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Old
11-23-2012, 02:30 PM
  #67
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I just don't see the Blues trading a defenseman right now unless a better one is coming back. Would be nice to have Eberle but not a need at this time. If we Mae a big trade it will be for a partner for Petro but I think Blues management is content with just adding Tarensanko and giving Cole a shot.

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Old
11-23-2012, 02:52 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by DynamoAO View Post
Schultz...best...dman?

(alzner?)

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Old
11-23-2012, 03:01 PM
  #69
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It's amazing how talented the worst team in the league 3 years running is... Stop living in hypothetical dreamland for a while and realize that you're taking proven talent for barely exposed talent with a lot of potential to do better... or get this WORSE.

Not every player in the league develops in a linear forward progression, clearly not in Edmonton or they'd have gone up at least 1 draft spot by now for crying out loud.

You act like you have a top 5 goalie and defense, with the worlds more talented young forwards in the league... and yet none of them can seem to win a game on the same team.

I have no idea where the delusion of "Only my teams prospects and players get better each and every year but yours have all plateaued" comes from unless you're just ************ about stat sheets and not even watching the players you doubt could even crack the almighty Oilers 2nd pairing or 3rd line.

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Old
11-23-2012, 03:11 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by JustinCider View Post
I like Carlson, i think he's a solid young dman with top pairing potential, but future Norris winner?? I don't see it, not even close right now.
I'll take NHL Referee's and Hockey Analyst's opinion over yours... txpd was not just spewing ******** out of his mouth... re-read his posts.

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Old
11-23-2012, 03:49 PM
  #71
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Neither Oiler fans or Caps fans would make a Carlson/Eberle one-for-one deal, which would probably put their value about even. From an Oiler perspective, Petry is worth more to them than Schultz and a 2nd would be, so I would turn that down from an Oiler perspective.

As much as I love Shattenkirk (it killed me to see him go one spot before the Oilers had a chance to take him with their 2nd 1st rounder in 2007), the upgrade from him to Petry and getting Berglund don't make up for losing Eberle in my mind. Call me a homer if you want, but there's a lot of value to having an elite talent who comes from your own back yard and grew up chearing for the home team. I also don't see Berglund as being at the same level talent wise either. Oiler fans want more size in the top 6, but I don't think suit size is a good enough reason to downgrade on talent and ability. Size and position is what got Chris Gratton drafted ahead of Paul Kariya too.

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11-23-2012, 03:50 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by SteenMachine View Post
It's amazing how talented the worst team in the league 3 years running is... Stop living in hypothetical dreamland for a while and realize that you're taking proven talent for barely exposed talent with a lot of potential to do better... or get this WORSE.

Not every player in the league develops in a linear forward progression, clearly not in Edmonton or they'd have gone up at least 1 draft spot by now for crying out loud.

You act like you have a top 5 goalie and defense, with the worlds more talented young forwards in the league... and yet none of them can seem to win a game on the same team.

I have no idea where the delusion of "Only my teams prospects and players get better each and every year but yours have all plateaued" comes from unless you're just ************ about stat sheets and not even watching the players you doubt could even crack the almighty Oilers 2nd pairing or 3rd line.
They did.

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Old
11-23-2012, 05:34 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyMo35 View Post
Why would we only want one goal scorer? Tarasenko might end up being something special, but Eberle already is. 6x6 for Eberle is nothing, especially since we'll be giving up 2 guys that stand to make quite a bit of money in the next couple of years. Steen is not a huge guy, but he's not small either. He and Oshie or Sobotka could easily hold down the center spots. If not, one of Oshie/Steen/Stewart/Rattie/Schwartz could be traded for someone that could. This trade would be the Blues absolutely robbing the Oilers. Oshie and Steen can play the center. Both can skate, both are good defensively, and both understand the game exceptionally well. Just because someone isn't a "natural center" doesn't mean they can't play it at all. Backes is not a "natural center" and he's worked out just fine. I value Eberle a whole lot higher than Shattenkirk and Berglund.
Firstly his contract is an issue. When the team is a cap floor team it always will be. Secondly, you are most definitely underestimating Berglund's value to this team. He may not score a ton but he makes up for it with his two way play. And oshie/ steen at second line center is not something I'd ever want to see. Apparently you didn't watch oshie or steen attempt to play center the past two years. They were not good at all.

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Old
11-23-2012, 05:48 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteenMachine View Post
It's amazing how talented the worst team in the league 3 years running is... Stop living in hypothetical dreamland for a while and realize that you're taking proven talent for barely exposed talent with a lot of potential to do better... or get this WORSE.

Not every player in the league develops in a linear forward progression, clearly not in Edmonton or they'd have gone up at least 1 draft spot by now for crying out loud.

You act like you have a top 5 goalie and defense, with the worlds more talented young forwards in the league... and yet none of them can seem to win a game on the same team.

I have no idea where the delusion of "Only my teams prospects and players get better each and every year but yours have all plateaued" comes from unless you're just ************ about stat sheets and not even watching the players you doubt could even crack the almighty Oilers 2nd pairing or 3rd line.
Are you ok? You seem to have a lot of anger over absolutely nothing.

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Old
11-23-2012, 06:49 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteenMachine View Post
It's amazing how talented the worst team in the league 3 years running is... Stop living in hypothetical dreamland for a while and realize that you're taking proven talent for barely exposed talent with a lot of potential to do better... or get this WORSE.

Not every player in the league develops in a linear forward progression, clearly not in Edmonton or they'd have gone up at least 1 draft spot by now for crying out loud.

You act like you have a top 5 goalie and defense, with the worlds more talented young forwards in the league... and yet none of them can seem to win a game on the same team.

I have no idea where the delusion of "Only my teams prospects and players get better each and every year but yours have all plateaued" comes from unless you're just ************ about stat sheets and not even watching the players you doubt could even crack the almighty Oilers 2nd pairing or 3rd line.
What a long winded, self righteous, idiotic, diatribe.


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