HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Washington Capitals
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The Lockout (is over!!!!!)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-22-2012, 11:10 AM
  #426
HSHS
Losing is a disease
 
HSHS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Redondo Beach, Ca
Country: United States
Posts: 17,641
vCash: 500
Haven't been paying attention.

But I like the RSOC idea, waivers changes, and love the 15% cap trading rule.

HSHS is offline  
Old
11-22-2012, 12:11 PM
  #427
Liberati0n*
Full Hammock
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 8,146
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
I was surprised until I saw that was tweeted by Propaghandi.
I'm surprised you know who Propagandhi is.

Liberati0n* is offline  
Old
11-22-2012, 03:11 PM
  #428
SimplySensational
Heard of Hough
 
SimplySensational's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: VA
Country: United States
Posts: 18,512
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream Big View Post
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409973

Letter from NHLPA updating Canadian Parliament on the lockout.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409992

NHLPA 's proposals.
Nothing like government getting involved in the private affairs of their citizens.

We're saved!

SimplySensational is online now  
Old
11-22-2012, 05:53 PM
  #429
Hivemind
We're Touched
 
Hivemind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 16,039
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonsofcain View Post
I'm surprised you know who Propagandhi is.
My roommate is a big fan. More of a metal guy myself, but they're pretty thrashy at times. And any band who has songs bashing Don Cherry is good in my book.

Hivemind is offline  
Old
11-22-2012, 11:01 PM
  #430
itsjustsurvival
The Revisionist
 
itsjustsurvival's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: richmond, virginia.
Posts: 1,367
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
My roommate is a big fan. More of a metal guy myself, but they're pretty thrashy at times. And any band who has songs bashing Don Cherry is good in my book.
Dear Coaches Corner is a sweet song.

Was really interested to see how the Capitals would do this year, but it's hard to imagine things working out.

itsjustsurvival is offline  
Old
11-23-2012, 08:56 AM
  #431
marcel snapshot
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,243
vCash: 500
So why has there been no local media coverage regarding the role in the lock-out of the Caps’ esteemed owner, especially since he’s part of the negotiating committee and a couple of very respected Canadian writers have put him with the hard-liners.

Here’s a guy that has spent years cultivating an image as a tech-savvy, forward-thinking guy, and yet by all accounts he seems to have embraced his inner Harold Ballard/Bill Wirtz in these negotiations. How is it that a guy who seems to pride himself on being fair-minded, transparent and all about “The Business of Happiness” and creating win-win scenarios in business arrangements is one of the drivers of a lock-out that is seriously embittering his employees/key assets (the players), alienating and angering his customers (the fans), and making his team and the league look like a joke and a not-very-worthwhile risk to his advertising revenue stream (the sponsors). Looks like a total embrace of the “Business of Unhappiness.”

Is he having buyer’s remorse on Ovie and so he wants to lop off as much of that salary as possible and prevent any additional long-term deals? Why would he favor a strategy that seems to be all about having hard-liners and unsuccessful teams drive the negotiating position and forcing a complete surrender on the part of the players – that doesn’t seem to jibe at all with the tenets of the “Business of Happiness.”

Maybe all the Canadian press reports are wrong. But it’s a total mystery why local media outlets haven’t looked at this.

marcel snapshot is offline  
Old
11-23-2012, 09:22 AM
  #432
Langway
Death/Taxes/Choking
 
Langway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 22,125
vCash: 50
Leonsis was reported to be among the same faction in NBA talks last year and his eventual remarks when asked pretty much dodged the question. The owner/player personnel gag order chills much of the reporting during the process but you'd think if it wasn't true there would have been pushback from sources close to him this or last time. Silence says it all IMO. An image is just that...an image. Leonsis has always seemed like a smug, self-absorbed posturer. He wants to make more money. It's as simple as that.

Funny that the Caps are the first publicly in-fighting team now with Brouwer's comments. More and more my takeaway is that if I want to continue to love the game of hockey the NHL itself (Caps included) may need to become dead to me. At this point I'm rooting for the Pandora's Box of decertification.


Last edited by Langway: 11-23-2012 at 09:59 AM.
Langway is offline  
Old
11-23-2012, 09:46 AM
  #433
marcel snapshot
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,243
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Langway View Post
More and more my takeaway is that if I want to continue to love the game of hockey the NHL itself (Caps included) may need to become dead to me.
Couldn't agree more with this sentiment. The game of hockey is much bigger and better than the incompetent dolts running the NHL. Locking-out the players every time a new CBA comes up is basically a message to fans that we're stupid suckers whose loyalty to the game of hockey can be milked by the owners for more $. It's not smart business to make people giving money to you begin to think of themselves as fools.

Ryan Miller is with you on decertification. In the attached article, he the NHL negotiating posture "Brand suicide." Spot on.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...29/?cmpid=rss1

marcel snapshot is offline  
Old
11-23-2012, 10:19 AM
  #434
EYEuhFRAYtee
Registered User
 
EYEuhFRAYtee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Country: United States
Posts: 2,484
vCash: 500
Social media has definitely made this my favorite lockout. I refuse to get emotionally involved over a bunch of 1%ers crying poor though.

EYEuhFRAYtee is online now  
Old
11-23-2012, 10:24 AM
  #435
Carlzner
Registered User
 
Carlzner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Boulder, CO
Country: United States
Posts: 11,440
vCash: 500
I agree with Hamrlik and Neuvirth's comments... shame that most of the players don't.

Carlzner is online now  
Old
11-23-2012, 10:49 AM
  #436
Liberati0n*
Full Hammock
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 8,146
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Langway View Post
Leonsis was reported to be among the same faction in NBA talks last year and his eventual remarks when asked pretty much dodged the question. The owner/player personnel gag order chills much of the reporting during the process but you'd think if it wasn't true there would have been pushback from sources close to him this or last time. Silence says it all IMO. An image is just that...an image. Leonsis has always seemed like a smug, self-absorbed posturer. He wants to make more money. It's as simple as that.
Great. What am I going to do with the copy of The Business of Happiness I just went out and got you for Christmas?




Brouwer's comments are stronger than I expected they'd be. “Me being on their team, how am I going to trust them as a teammate from now on?"

Liberati0n* is offline  
Old
11-23-2012, 10:54 AM
  #437
BTCG
Registered User
 
BTCG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,469
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
i am not sure what you expect the owners to do? you blame them for signing the contracts. i'd guess that you would rip the capitals ownership for NOT signing the deals.

lets take leonsis for instance. he gets ripped by fans here for not being aggressively enough with his spending. many posts that it proves that he doesnt care about winning. yet he is cast as one of the hardliners trying to hold the line on spending.

many here hold the flyers up as the team that shows they want to win with their aggressive roster movement and their willingness to spend at a wild rate.

i'd be interested to see your solution


A CBA was signed, and during its duration, may contracts were agreed to. If a contract is to have any meaning... it must be honored. (read that last portion again)

BTCG is offline  
Old
11-23-2012, 11:01 AM
  #438
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,800
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BTCG View Post
A CBA was signed, and during its duration, may contracts were agreed to. If a contract is to have any meaning... it must be honored. (read that last portion again)
best i can tell the only thing you are against that the owners want is the rollback. thats it?

txpd is offline  
Old
11-23-2012, 11:09 AM
  #439
Millhaus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 6,682
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Braden Carlzner View Post
I agree with Hamrlik and Neuvirth's comments... shame that most of the players don't.
In fact Brouwer has said he won't have Hamrlik's and Neuvirth's backs when this is all over because of their comments.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=410109

This bodes well for the Caps' fortunes going forward...

Millhaus is online now  
Old
11-23-2012, 11:09 AM
  #440
BTCG
Registered User
 
BTCG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,469
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
If anyone needed more proof that people will call anything they don't like "socialist," here it is. If there's anything that resembles socialism in this CBA debate, it's the Union's request for increased revenue sharing. And the irony of accusing the management side of socialism rather than the labor is rather amusing. But let's not contribute to the further dilution and abuse of the term. Socialism and hockey labor discussions are apples and oranges.

As for the owners not making sound business decisions, what you don't seem to understand is that it's a lose-lose situation for many markets. They're damned if they do, damned if they don't with this free agent market. The way that most markets make any sort of money is to reach the playoffs. If you don't have young stars on ELCs, the way to reach the playoffs generally involves spending a decent amount.

And the competitive marketplace even drives up the cost of your home grown talent. Just look at almost any of the RFA deals signed in the past couple seasons. John Carlson's contract was looked at as a "steal" by many, yet we still gave a 22 year old defenseman coming off of a down year a $23.8M contract. GMs are forced to choose between spending to retain their talent and remain competitive, or completely alienating their fanbase.

Look at the teams that don't spend. The Islanders are relocating into a venue that wasn't built for hockey and will have, by far, the lowest capacity in the league because they couldn't build a new venue. There's a massive cloud of uncertainty surrounding Phoenix's future, as many assume they're bound to relocate soon. Atlanta couldn't retain Savard, Hossa, or Kovalchuk and ended up relocating to Winnipeg. The Lightning are on their fifth ownership group in the past fifteen years (though this one likes to spend and things are looking up). The Blue Jackets have sputtering attendance and have traded away their two best forwards.



There wasn't a cap in the 2003-2004 season. The Tampa Bay payroll was $34M. The reason they were so successful with a payroll beneath the league average ($44.4M) was because they had their star players on contracts that pre-dated them breaking out. And it's the reason their payroll immediately went up when the NHL resumed play, despite the 24% rollbacks during the lockout. Lecavalier, Richards, and St. Louis were all on contracts of less then Khabibulin's $4.4M. Young talent, early in their career, is affordable.They would all sign contracts of $6.5M+ shortly after as the Lightning became a cap ceiling team then eventually shedding payroll.

Sometimes you get lucky and have a guy like St. Louis become a breakout player alongside your young stars. Most of the time you don't. You can't build your franchise around the hope you find a future hall of fame player in the garbage heap. Otherwise a lot more people would be happy with McPhee's dumpster diving.
I see that below this post, you finally read the rest of my posts.

Now, let's stay focused, okay?

A player once tried the very same things the owners are attempting to do (and for the 2nd time, now): pretend that a contract didn't exist.

That player was named Yashin, and do you remember the league's reaction? They laughed at the notion.

Some here, and this includes yourself, make these claims, but I guarantee that you're merely posturing.

I don't know whether you own or lease, but if you fully honored the purchase or lease, and the party you purchased or leased from suddenly showed up at your door and announced that they'd changed their minds and wanted you to pack up and leave, I don't believe for a New York minute that you'd oblige them.

You'd point to the fact that you'd signed a valid contract and honored it.

And you know that's true.

BTCG is offline  
Old
11-23-2012, 11:10 AM
  #441
BTCG
Registered User
 
BTCG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,469
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
best i can tell the only thing you are against that the owners want is the rollback. thats it?
IMO... that's the mountain that cannot be moved.

BTCG is offline  
Old
11-23-2012, 11:12 AM
  #442
BTCG
Registered User
 
BTCG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,469
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
In fact Brouwer has said he won't have Hamrlik's and Neuvirth's backs when this is all over because of their comments.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=410109

This bodes well for the Caps' fortunes going forward...
Brouwer ought not to have made the comment in public.

BTCG is offline  
Old
11-23-2012, 11:23 AM
  #443
BTCG
Registered User
 
BTCG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,469
vCash: 500
Holy geez txpd... over 36k posts....? Incredible!

BTCG is offline  
Old
11-23-2012, 11:23 AM
  #444
Langway
Death/Taxes/Choking
 
Langway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 22,125
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonsofcain View Post
Great. What am I going to do with the copy of The Business of Happiness I just went out and got you for Christmas?
It's at least multi-functional. You never know when an uneven table or design project could make it handy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BTCG View Post
A CBA was signed, and during its duration, may contracts were agreed to. If a contract is to have any meaning... it must be honored. (read that last portion again)
Yet those contracts were always bound by the CBA, specifically in linking revenues with the player's share. The players were never assured the full sum of their contracts. That linkage is why the player's have the most at stake in a healthy, thriving league. Going to war over a couple percentage points is folly but the tenor of and preparation for negotiations almost assured it regardless of merit. Easy for me to say but, then again, both sides seem to assume business will take no hit based on their actions.

'Making whole' pits the haves against the have nots and, as Neuvirth's comments allude to, would seem to be where the league could create the greatest player division. 'Making whole' does nothing for the players of tomorrow. It's a cushion for players that for the most part need it the least. Making that a term for debate was a win for the league.

Langway is offline  
Old
11-23-2012, 11:32 AM
  #445
BTCG
Registered User
 
BTCG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,469
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Langway View Post
It's at least multi-functional. You never know when an uneven table or design project could make it handy.

Yet those contracts were always bound by the CBA, specifically in linking revenues with the player's share. The players were never assured the full sum of their contracts. That linkage is why the player's have the most at stake in a healthy, thriving league. Going to war over a couple percentage points is folly but the tenor of and preparation for negotiations almost assured it regardless of merit. Easy for me to say but, then again, both sides seem to assume business will take no hit based on their actions.

'Making whole' pits the haves against the have nots and, as Neuvirth's comments allude to, would seem to be where the league could create the greatest player division. 'Making whole' does nothing for the players of tomorrow. It's a cushion for players that for the most part need it the least. Making that a term for debate was a win for the league.
The owners don't wish to pay any percentage.

One good thing that has come outta this: I'm finding out that I'm a Raven's fan.

Added after: what is that, 4 straight times that we've beaten the Steelers now? Very cool!!!!

BTCG is offline  
Old
11-23-2012, 11:33 AM
  #446
Millhaus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 6,682
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BTCG View Post
IMO... that's the mountain that cannot be moved.
Except they really aren't asking for contract roll backs anymore or at least not in the way they did in the previous CBA negotiations. Could their be some slight increases in escrow hold backs while they get the percentages and make whole provisions worked out? Sure but the escrow hold backs could have increased anyway under the old CBA so that is nothing new.

The league could agree to pay all existing contracts in full and as agreed upon under the old CBA and still go down to 50/50. Sure it wouldn't leave as much left to pay players without contracts and it would be interesting for teams over a 50/50 cap number to get under the cap but it could be done.

Millhaus is online now  
Old
11-23-2012, 11:40 AM
  #447
BTCG
Registered User
 
BTCG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,469
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
Except they really aren't asking for contract roll backs anymore or at least not in the way they did in the previous CBA negotiations. Could their be some slight increases in escrow hold backs while they get the percentages and make whole provisions worked out? Sure but the escrow hold backs could have increased anyway under the old CBA so that is nothing new.
Millhaus,

Of course, neither you nor I are privy to exactly what's going on.

I'll leave it at this: I hope you're correct That might give us some hope that we'll see some hockey this year.

Hope you and you others had a nice holiday and meal.

BTCG is offline  
Old
11-23-2012, 11:55 AM
  #448
Chimaera
same ol' Caps
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: La Plata, Maryland
Country: United States
Posts: 22,116
vCash: 500
Trade Neuvirth!

Chimaera is offline  
Old
11-24-2012, 02:39 PM
  #449
sunnydaycrash
Registered User
 
sunnydaycrash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Vancouver
Country: Portugal
Posts: 3,725
vCash: 500
Troy effing Brouwer doesn't know if he can stand up for his teammates anymore....Troy " I make almost 4 million for 33 pts" , player rep, doesn't like what Hammer and Neuvy said......hey Troy , F U you greedy, ungrateful, petty arrogant **** !

You should be thanking every god there is, and calling every owner and Bettman thanking them daily you get paid what you do.

And if you can't discern the difference between financial negotions and your teammates desire to get back on the ice cos he wants to win , then you have no business being a player rep let alone a hockey player.

I hope they cancel the season, really.....and I hope they cancel next season too....it'll be worth it watching these ungrateful ****** squirm and beg for their jobs !

The audacity of these players calling the negations and the owners proposals unfair....unfair ?????
The holocaust was unfair, kids getting terminal illnesses is unfair, Walmart employees making 8 bucks an hr with no benefits is unfair......I seriously don't know if I can root for these guys anymore !

sunnydaycrash is offline  
Old
11-24-2012, 03:47 PM
  #450
Devil Dancer
Registered User
 
Devil Dancer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 12,675
vCash: 500
The end is nigh, I (mostly) agree with BTCG. Damn Mayans were right all along.

Devil Dancer is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:58 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.