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The Luongo Thread: Another Brick in the Wall Edition

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Old
11-23-2012, 11:34 AM
  #151
Liferleafer
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Simple because Toronto is UNWILLING to move anything of value. But I'm going to move on.
Ars...let me see if i can respond without sounding like an ass. Here is a list of assets that have been discussed that most Nuck's fans feel "suck" and have no place in Van.
Kadri,Colborne,Kulimen,Macarthur,Lupul,Connolly,Lo mbardi,Bozak,Franson,Schenn,Ashton,Reimer,Scrivens .

Then there are the ones that got some positive response but still got shot down because of contract:
Grabovski,Phaneuf.

I think we can safely say Kessel (obvious) and JVR (Burke just aquired him) are off the table.

That doesn't leave much...unwilling is a word i guess you could use when discussing Gardiner, but not for stupborness...for need. If we deal Gardiner that leaves Phaneuf/Gunner/Liles and Komi as our only signed NHL dmen. Rielly is a nogo and i think anyone would understand that. I am now under the firm beleaf that there is zero deal to be made here.

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11-23-2012, 11:39 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Ars...let me see if i can respond without sounding like an ass. Here is a list of assets that have been discussed that most Nuck's fans feel "suck" and have no place in Van.
Kadri,Colborne,Kulimen,Macarthur,Lupul,Connolly,Lo mbardi,Bozak,Franson,Schenn,Ashton,Reimer,Scrivens .

Then there are the ones that got some positive response but still got shot down because of contract:
Grabovski,Phaneuf.

I think we can safely say Kessel (obvious) and JVR (Burke just aquired him) are off the table.

That doesn't leave much...unwilling is a word i guess you could use when discussing Gardiner, but not for stupborness...for need. If we deal Gardiner that leaves Phaneuf/Gunner/Liles and Komi as our only signed NHL dmen. Rielly is a nogo and i think anyone would understand that. I am now under the firm beleaf that there is zero deal to be made here.
If we were making an all or nothing run at the Cup, I wouldn't mind Phaneuf.

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11-23-2012, 11:42 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Taelin View Post
If we were making an all or nothing run at the Cup, I wouldn't mind Phaneuf.
He is our captain...icetime leader and like Gardiner, if Dion goes we are left with Gunner/Liles/Gardiner and Komi.....ugly.

With trading Schenn...we can't move any D....not won't...literally can't.

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11-23-2012, 11:42 AM
  #154
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Ars...let me see if i can respond without sounding like an ass.
I wouldn't get too excited about it, we have the same arguments here about our own players. The same guy telling you that so-and-so sucks is probably saying we should trade the twins or that we traded Hodgson for a goon etc, etc, etc. Unfortunately, it's just how our board works.

The good news for you is that our GM knows about the players you guys have to offer. Most of our fans only know what they can see @ behindthenet or NHL.com or what the media has to say about them. Toronto has good players and good prospects, we can improve our team now and in the future with a trade.

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11-23-2012, 11:47 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Ars...let me see if i can respond without sounding like an ass. Here is a list of assets that have been discussed that most Nuck's fans feel "suck" and have no place in Van.
Kadri,Colborne,Kulimen,Macarthur,Lupul,Connolly,Lo mbardi,Bozak,Franson,Schenn,Ashton,Reimer,Scrivens .

Then there are the ones that got some positive response but still got shot down because of contract:
Grabovski,Phaneuf.

I think we can safely say Kessel (obvious) and JVR (Burke just aquired him) are off the table.

That doesn't leave much...unwilling is a word i guess you could use when discussing Gardiner, but not for stupborness...for need. If we deal Gardiner that leaves Phaneuf/Gunner/Liles and Komi as our only signed NHL dmen. Rielly is a nogo and i think anyone would understand that. I am now under the firm beleaf that there is zero deal to be made here.
Who in their right mind shot those two guys down.

Grabovski is the only 'established NHLer' (Gardiner is close) that I think would truly improve the Canucks. He'd be an absolute perfect fit in Vancouver.

I'd do something based around Grabo for sure, same with Phaneuf to a lesser extent.

The problem is I still see Toronto needing to add on top of Grabo, which obviously won't be received well on your end, considering he's your best centre (but not your #1...that always gets me).

I don't think we could get a 1st from you if we take Grabo, but I still think a 2nd rounder and a prospect would come too. Knowing this board, I don't think many Leaf fans will like this proposal at all.

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11-23-2012, 11:47 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
He is our captain...icetime leader and like Gardiner, if Dion goes we are left with Gunner/Liles/Gardiner and Komi.....ugly.

With trading Schenn...we can't move any D....not won't...literally can't.
Well, you didn't say he was off the table, so I had assumed we could discuss him. I'd probably do Luongo + D-man (not Edler) for him.

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11-23-2012, 11:59 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
I'd do something based around Grabo for sure
+1 for Grabo!

Burke makes a deal for Stastny and we get Grabo + Frattin for Lu. I'd throw in Schroeder if I had to.


Last edited by Scurr: 11-23-2012 at 12:05 PM.
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11-23-2012, 02:17 PM
  #158
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Grabbo is basically Kesler-lite.

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11-23-2012, 02:21 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
+1 for Grabo!

Burke makes a deal for Stastny and we get Grabo + Frattin for Lu. I'd throw in Schroeder if I had to.
That would be the only way(Stastny) that we could move Grabo.

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11-23-2012, 02:29 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
That would be the only way(Stastny) that we could move Grabo.
Yup. The NTC in Grabo's contract (5 team veto) has me a little suspicious about Burke's view of Grabo going forward. I would have given him a full NTC and tried to get him cheaper.

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11-23-2012, 03:03 PM
  #161
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Grabbo is basically Kesler-lite.
With a Kesler-heavy contract... I'd still take him because he fills a need.

I'd still want the 1st with him and a prospect.

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11-23-2012, 03:07 PM
  #162
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I'd still want the 1st with him and a prospect.
Then you have no idea how good Grabo is.

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11-23-2012, 03:09 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
With a Kesler-heavy contract... I'd still take him because he fills a need.

I'd still want the 1st with him and a prospect.
What about a 2nd and Frattin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Then you have no idea how good Grabo is.
I know how good he is, I also know how good Luongo is....do you think Grabo+Frattin+2nd works?

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11-23-2012, 03:14 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
I know how good he is, I also know how good Luongo is....do you think Grabo+Frattin+2nd works?
I like it, I like it a lot. T.O. probably doesn't, definitely not until they find another centre.

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11-23-2012, 03:14 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
What about a 2nd and Frattin


I know how good he is, I also know how good Luongo is....do you think Grabo+Frattin+2nd works?
I don't think we should trade Luongo for a 50 points player who never played in the NHL playoffs before and he is 28-29 years old already, let's face it, the leafs are not good trading partners with us, time to move on to teams that are willing to give up players that we want.

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11-23-2012, 03:18 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Vancouver_2010 View Post
I don't think we should trade Luongo for a 50 points player who never played in the NHL playoffs before and he is 28-29 years old already, let's face it, the leafs are not good trading partners with us, time to move on to teams that are willing to give up players that we want.


Did you actually think that the entire board was going to agree with a certain proposal? From _any_ team?

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11-23-2012, 03:26 PM
  #167
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time to move on to teams that are willing to give up players that we want.
Speak for yourself, Grabovski is a great player. It's not all about points in hockey, pretty sure I learned that at 5 when I started playing. Great piece of advice that has served me well.

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11-23-2012, 03:36 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Vancouver_2010 View Post
I don't think we should trade Luongo for a 50 points player who never played in the NHL playoffs before and he is 28-29 years old already, let's face it, the leafs are not good trading partners with us, time to move on to teams that are willing to give up players that we want.
I actually agree, i hope you find one.

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11-23-2012, 03:37 PM
  #169
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Who in their right mind shot those two guys down.
Grabovski is the only 'established NHLer' (Gardiner is close) that I think would truly improve the Canucks. He'd be an absolute perfect fit in Vancouver.

I'd do something based around Grabo for sure, same with Phaneuf to a lesser extent.

The problem is I still see Toronto needing to add on top of Grabo, which obviously won't be received well on your end, considering he's your best centre (but not your #1...that always gets me).

I don't think we could get a 1st from you if we take Grabo, but I still think a 2nd rounder and a prospect would come too. Knowing this board, I don't think many Leaf fans will like this proposal at all.
A bunch of people. Grabo for contract, and Phaneuf was stated as an overpaid terrible player.

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11-23-2012, 03:40 PM
  #170
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Speak for yourself, Grabovski is a great player. It's not all about points in hockey, pretty sure I learned that at 5 when I started playing. Great piece of advice that has served me well.
True, except that he does the little things and still puts up points anyway

A deal based around Lu for Grabo would be my first choice from TOR. That move would give us killer dept down the middle and instantly give us another scoring line.

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11-23-2012, 03:49 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by vanuck View Post
True, except that he does the little things and still puts up points anyway

A deal based around Lu for Grabo would be my first choice from TOR. That move would give us killer dept down the middle and instantly give us another scoring line.
Again, unless we have a replacement before the deal, Grabo can't be moved.

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11-23-2012, 03:53 PM
  #172
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True, except that he does the little things and still puts up points anyway

A deal based around Lu for Grabo would be my first choice from TOR. That move would give us killer dept down the middle and instantly give us another scoring line.


If the cap drops to 60m~, then I'm not sure a multi-year 5m+ contract makes sense to bring in. As it stands, the Canucks have to shed Luongo and Ballard without taking any salary back just to be under. It would put them about 2m below. Edit: Oh, and they have to re-sign Higgins, Edler and Lappy. Malhotra and Raymond are also up in the air. Meaning, they need as much _future_ (as in not the current season) cap as they can muster at this point.



It's another reason I've been looking at mostly prospects as a package. They allow for better cost control.


Last edited by Bleach Clean: 11-23-2012 at 04:06 PM.
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11-23-2012, 03:57 PM
  #173
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Then you have no idea how good Grabo is.
I know that Grabo is a pretty good player. I would probably rank him in the top 35 centres in the league (off the top of my head) right behind Thomas Plekanec.

I also know how good Luongo is, something that is often forgotten around here.

Look at it this way, last season Vancouver and Toronto had the exact same shots against per game (30.8) tied for 7th worst in the league. Vancouver was 4th for least goals allowed while Toronto was 29th. Switching goaltending tandems (by switching the goals allowed number) would result in Toronto having a +33 goal differential and have them fighting Philly for home ice advantage in the playoffs while Vancouver would be a -15 goal differential which would have us fighting for the division lead to make the playoffs (based on goal differential, all NW teams would miss) it could be argued that the main difference between Vancouver and Toronto is goaltending and without that difference Vancouver would be seen as a have-not and Toronto would be seen as a contender.

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11-23-2012, 04:03 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
I know that Grabo is a pretty good player. I would probably rank him in the top 35 centres in the league (off the top of my head) right behind Thomas Plekanec.

I also know how good Luongo is, something that is often forgotten around here.

Look at it this way, last season Vancouver and Toronto had the exact same shots against per game (30.8) tied for 7th worst in the league. Vancouver was 4th for least goals allowed while Toronto was 29th. Switching goaltending tandems (by switching the goals allowed number) would result in Toronto having a +33 goal differential and have them fighting Philly for home ice advantage in the playoffs while Vancouver would be a -15 goal differential which would have us fighting for the division lead to make the playoffs (based on goal differential, all NW teams would miss) it could be argued that the main difference between Vancouver and Toronto is goaltending and without that difference Vancouver would be seen as a have-not and Toronto would be seen as a contender.


Shot quality factors in also.

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11-23-2012, 04:05 PM
  #175
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Again, unless we have a replacement before the deal, Grabo can't be moved.
Can you please list the guys Toronto "can't move"?

Like start with the most untouchable and go from there.

I'd imagine it would be something like this:
Kessel
Phaneuf
Grabovski
Gardiner

Is it safe to say those are the 4 pieces you 'cant move' (whoops forgot Nieder...I mean Rielly).

Because after these players the list becomes pretty bleak from a Vancouver standpoint.
Lupul
Kulemin
Bozak

Like off the top of my head, those are the only 3 players on your roster you personally would move for Lu, right?

Because couldn't you just replace Grabo with Bozak, Connolly, or Lombardi...I've seen the sell job on why those guys help Vancouver.

Couldn't you replace Gardiner with Blacker, Rielly, Holzer, their supposedly good.

I don't know, its just me, but the value of excellent goaltending far out weighs the rest of the holes on Toronto's roster (ones that they have players to fill from within).

But that's just me I guess.

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