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Old
11-23-2012, 01:33 AM
  #801
pahlsson
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Originally Posted by Vancouver_2010 View Post
you know what, take out Kadri and 1st to make it Luongo, Schroeder, Raymond, 1st for Kessel, Percy and Gardiner instead. Drop Bozak, we have no need for such player
no way, 1st is a deal breaker, if you take that out leafs would have to add reilly too

Luongo, Schroeder, Raymond, 1st for Kessel, Percy, Gardiner + Reilly

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11-23-2012, 01:43 AM
  #802
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Blacker would need to stay and this would be straight up for Luongo. Actually very similar to deals we have negotiated.

I may have over done it on VAN's end of my proposal, but i figured if we take on bodies we'll have to remove some. Raymond i pretty much threw in cuz i despise him lol. My proposal was merely based on the fact that TO is really the only trading partner at the moment. I obviously much rather keep him and wait for a bigger demand.

I love Lou and firmly believe whatever team he goes to will become better, but his value is so skewed by this forum i have no clue to what it actually is !? I think the determining factor in any deal is gonna come down to not what his so called value is (player,prospect,pick ?) but rather what team/s are heavily interested him. His demand will dictate the price teams will pay and we realistically wont know that till there's an actual season. Only demand we have heard of so far is from TO; any comments about age, contract, ability are bogus and are only used by TO fans to lessen his value because his demand is limited. Once the season/ a season begins and say Tampa, Chicago, Florida etc start showing interest we'll see TO fans change their tune on value. Now its very possible that the demand will never increase but till then i believe this is the best we can get.....

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11-23-2012, 01:56 AM
  #803
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Originally Posted by DanCloutiers5hole View Post
I may have over done it on VAN's end of my proposal, but i figured if we take on bodies we'll have to remove some. Raymond i pretty much threw in cuz i despise him lol. My proposal was merely based on the fact that TO is really the only trading partner at the moment. I obviously much rather keep him and wait for a bigger demand.

I love Lou and firmly believe whatever team he goes to will become better, but his value is so skewed by this forum i have no clue to what it actually is !? I think the determining factor in any deal is gonna come down to not what his so called value is (player,prospect,pick ?) but rather what team/s are heavily interested him. His demand will dictate the price teams will pay and we realistically wont know that till there's an actual season. Only demand we have heard of so far is from TO; any comments about age, contract, ability are bogus and are only used by TO fans to lessen his value because his demand is limited. Once the season/ a season begins and say Tampa, Chicago, Florida etc start showing interest we'll see TO fans change their tune on value. Now its very possible that the demand will never increase but till then i believe this is the best we can get.....
Gillis won't trade him for that value otherwise he would be gone already.

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Old
11-23-2012, 02:21 AM
  #804
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Gillis won't trade him for that value otherwise he would be gone already.
lol, sorry when i said the best we can get i meant from the TO fans in these make up proposals

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11-23-2012, 03:18 AM
  #805
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Originally Posted by pahlsson View Post
no way, 1st is a deal breaker, if you take that out leafs would have to add reilly too

Luongo, Schroeder, Raymond, 1st for Kessel, Percy, Gardiner + Reilly
nah, would much rather have dion phaneuf instead

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11-23-2012, 08:21 AM
  #806
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[QUOTE=Cogburn;55964195]Well, that beats a lot of proposals

I mean in the sense of pucks, jockstraps and powerade is useful to us. Lack for Subway coupons though...I'm disappointed doorman.

Well I cracked that 60 open last night, so I am now willing to throw in some Quiznos gist cards and bus passes for you new draft picks.....I can't assure you that these offer will keep getting sweeter you know....lol.

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Old
11-23-2012, 08:40 AM
  #807
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[QUOTE=doorman;55977943]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
Well, that beats a lot of proposals

I mean in the sense of pucks, jockstraps and powerade is useful to us. Lack for Subway coupons though...I'm disappointed doorman.

Well I cracked that 60 open last night, so I am now willing to throw in some Quiznos gist cards and bus passes for you new draft picks.....I can't assure you that these offer will keep getting sweeter you know....lol.
Hi go easy...if you keep upping the offer they are going to demand $12.35 in Canadian tire money as well!!!

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Old
11-23-2012, 11:57 AM
  #808
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Originally Posted by Co Ho View Post

What's the valuable piece? Lupul isn't going to re-sign in this case, so he doesn't count.
2014 gives the Leafs roster some time to mature and develop, meaning the draft pick probably won't be a huge difference in placings (hell, it could even benefit the Leafs depending on how much they improve/if the Canucks regress).
Percy isn't that valuable, especially when you factor in the Lombardi dump.

You have a strange perception of value.
If the Leafs aren't going to be ready for at least 2 years, a 33 year old goalie is not the best option.

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11-23-2012, 12:23 PM
  #809
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[QUOTE=Liferleafer;55978071]
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Originally Posted by doorman View Post
Hi go easy...if you keep upping the offer they are going to demand $12.35 in Canadian tire money as well!!!
So sorry about that I did mention I cracked the 60 right? lol, drank a wee bit more then i thought

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Old
11-23-2012, 01:00 PM
  #810
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[QUOTE=doorman;55980779]
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post

So sorry about that I did mention I cracked the 60 right? lol, drank a wee bit more then i thought
Great! He's drunk, that Canadian Tire money is ours!

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Old
11-23-2012, 01:38 PM
  #811
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Grabovski+Frattin+2nd for Luongo

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Old
11-23-2012, 02:24 PM
  #812
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What if Vancouver would add to Luongo and get Gardiner? In vacuum it's a big overpayment but it could still help Vancouver (or not lol)

Gardiner for Luongo, 1st and Sauve

Would Leafs fans do this?

Ok this seems so ridicolous and horrible when written but I'll leave it and it would be fun to know if Leafs fans still reject this.

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Old
11-23-2012, 02:44 PM
  #813
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Originally Posted by BigMacJokinen View Post
What if Vancouver would add to Luongo and get Gardiner? In vacuum it's a big overpayment but it could still help Vancouver (or not lol)

Gardiner for Luongo, 1st and Sauve

Would Leafs fans do this?

Ok this seems so ridicolous and horrible when written but I'll leave it and it would be fun to know if Leafs fans still reject this.
You must obviously have a plan for Ballard or Edler? Since add Gardiner really only adds youth and another left hand D.

Really I don't understand the obsession with this kid when every single Canucks can knows we had 100 left side D and only 3 right side D in the system. And one is in the OHL for the year.

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Old
11-23-2012, 03:37 PM
  #814
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Watched a bit of the baby Leafs last night, not terribly impressed with any of their prospects.

Coburn failed to control his man on the boards leading to a goal, looked like he wasn't even trying to win face offs, and was slow... looked decent with the puck but didn't look at all like a checking center to me.

Gardiner blew a tire at the opposition blue line, leading to a goal against. Still looks like Lucas Kraijick to me, I like Lucas but I don't see Jakes value being nearly as high as leaf fans think. Has no physical element to his game at all. Tanev is a better prospect than him.

Kadri, again looked dangerous with the puck, but there is a big difference between playing with 'grit' and actually being able to back it up. Got into a pushing match with Jessiman, seriously? Kids going to get himself pummeled. Nice player, but the Canucks need real grit in the top six with Burrows, the Sedins and even Booth already there. Kesler is our only top-6 forward who could be said to be difficult or frustrating to play against.

Ashton looked somewhat interesting, but I am not sure what his upside is.


Other than Kadri these are all prospects that were aquired on the cheap from other teams, they are all projects from what I can see.

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Old
11-23-2012, 04:20 PM
  #815
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Originally Posted by Whale View Post
Watched a bit of the baby Leafs last night, not terribly impressed with any of their prospects.

Coburn failed to control his man on the boards leading to a goal, looked like he wasn't even trying to win face offs, and was slow... looked decent with the puck but didn't look at all like a checking center to me.

Gardiner blew a tire at the opposition blue line, leading to a goal against. Still looks like Lucas Kraijick to me, I like Lucas but I don't see Jakes value being nearly as high as leaf fans think. Has no physical element to his game at all. Tanev is a better prospect than him.

Kadri, again looked dangerous with the puck, but there is a big difference between playing with 'grit' and actually being able to back it up. Got into a pushing match with Jessiman, seriously? Kids going to get himself pummeled. Nice player, but the Canucks need real grit in the top six with Burrows, the Sedins and even Booth already there. Kesler is our only top-6 forward who could be said to be difficult or frustrating to play against.

Ashton looked somewhat interesting, but I am not sure what his upside is.


Other than Kadri these are all prospects that were aquired on the cheap from other teams, they are all projects from what I can see.


Gardiner is most certainly _not_ a project. He did pretty well in the NHL last year even. Oh, and the Krajicek comparison is way off. Gardiner is more physical (watch him in the NHL), better shot, is bigger etc... They aren't in the same stratosphere.



Yes, Kadri is going to have to tone down the edge in the NHL, or he will be targeted. But that's what makes him intriguing over normally skilled players that play with little jam. His worst trait is that he is not efficient with the puck... but if he was, he'd already be in the show.



Colborne's got a long way to go yet. While Ashton can play bottom6 right now... There is a disconnect here, TO's prospects aren't as bad as you are making them out to be. They have question marks, but what prospect doesn't?

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Old
11-23-2012, 04:30 PM
  #816
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Gardiner is most certainly _not_ a project. He did pretty well in the NHL last year even. Oh, and the Krajicek comparison is way off. Gardiner is more physical (watch him in the NHL), better shot, is bigger etc... They aren't in the same stratosphere.



Yes, Kadri is going to have to tone down the edge in the NHL, or he will be targeted. But that's what makes him intriguing over normally skilled players that play with little jam. His worst trait is that he is not efficient with the puck... but if he was, he'd already be in the show.



Colborne's got a long way to go yet. While Ashton can play bottom6 right now... There is a disconnect here, TO's prospects aren't as bad as you are making them out to be. They have question marks, but what prospect doesn't?
I remember being super impressed with Krajicek first 25 games or so... then he fell of the wagon.

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11-23-2012, 04:37 PM
  #817
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I remember being super impressed with Krajicek first 25 games or so... then he fell of the wagon.
or slipped on a wet sidewalk

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Old
11-23-2012, 04:42 PM
  #818
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If the Leafs aren't going to be ready for at least 2 years, a 33 year old goalie is not the best option.
If the Leafs aren't competing in the next two years I think its very likely their current stars will want to move on. Lupul, Phaneuf, and Kessel are all UFAs in the next two years and I would assume some prospect of winning would be an important thing for me if I was signing a deal.

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11-23-2012, 05:03 PM
  #819
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If the Leafs aren't competing in the next two years I think its very likely their current stars will want to move on. Lupul, Phaneuf, and Kessel are all UFAs in the next two years and I would assume some prospect of winning would be an important thing for me if I was signing a deal.
Not necessarily. Lupol has no real ties to the city. Although he has worked out there and has been bounced around so much that he may be happy to stay.

Kessel and Phaneuf may realize they have greater value and roles in Toronto than they would elsewhere. If Toronto is willing to make the commitment to them, then they may be willing to take it.

I seriously doubt any of these guys want to sign short term or discounted deals to end up on a surefire contender (whatever that means in the new NHL with parity).

Also, since this is a Luongo thread, how does having all of their stars walk encourage them to go out and get a 33 year old goalie. If anything, Toronto would be looking to get prospects and picks, if all of their stars decide to leave. Losing Lupol, Phaneuf, and Kessel would trigger a rebuild not the acquisition of Luongo.

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11-23-2012, 05:18 PM
  #820
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If your team doesn't go out & try to make themselves better, create a winning environment...etc Guys like Lupul, Phaneuf and Kessel won't want to stay. I know I would personally rather play a smaller role on a good team then be the main go to guy on a bottom 5 team... and I bet Lupul, Phaneuf and Kessel share that feeling. Not only that but you have to start building a winning environment for your prospects but more importantly for your fan base.

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11-23-2012, 05:23 PM
  #821
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or slipped on a wet sidewalk
Didn't we have two guys do that? Who was the other?

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11-23-2012, 05:37 PM
  #822
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Originally Posted by Whale View Post
Watched a bit of the baby Leafs last night, not terribly impressed with any of their prospects.

Coburn failed to control his man on the boards leading to a goal, looked like he wasn't even trying to win face offs, and was slow... looked decent with the puck but didn't look at all like a checking center to me.

Gardiner blew a tire at the opposition blue line, leading to a goal against. Still looks like Lucas Kraijick to me, I like Lucas but I don't see Jakes value being nearly as high as leaf fans think. Has no physical element to his game at all. Tanev is a better prospect than him.

Kadri, again looked dangerous with the puck, but there is a big difference between playing with 'grit' and actually being able to back it up. Got into a pushing match with Jessiman, seriously? Kids going to get himself pummeled. Nice player, but the Canucks need real grit in the top six with Burrows, the Sedins and even Booth already there. Kesler is our only top-6 forward who could be said to be difficult or frustrating to play against.

Ashton looked somewhat interesting, but I am not sure what his upside is.


Other than Kadri these are all prospects that were aquired on the cheap from other teams, they are all projects from what I can see.
i agree with all of your assessments for the most part with the exception of gardiner. he was the leading rookie defenseman in scoring and 9th out of all rookies. i dont see how you make a comparison to Lucas Kraijick whose career high was 17 points. the kid is head and shoulders better then him. gardiners value is high league wide, not just to the leafs. i recognize that us leaf fans overvalue our players (as do all fans of any team) but i believe every gm in the nhl would have interest in gardiner. the fact that he might not have been seen as a blue chipper when burke traded for him has no baring on the player he is today and in the future. i think most leaf fans consider gardiner > kadri in terms of value. in contrast kadri has unbelievable talent and skill but he has a lot further to go to realize his potential then gardiner who is already an everyday nhl player. i would say that kadri is a bigger project then gardiner which is why kadri spent the majority of last season with the marlies. i suspect that when hockey resumes players like frattin, kadri, and gardiner will all be on the leafs though. ashton and colborne prbably need 2 more seasons for eakins to straighten them out.

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Old
11-23-2012, 05:54 PM
  #823
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Originally Posted by Whale View Post
Watched a bit of the baby Leafs last night, not terribly impressed with any of their prospects.

Coburn failed to control his man on the boards leading to a goal, looked like he wasn't even trying to win face offs, and was slow... looked decent with the puck but didn't look at all like a checking center to me.

Gardiner blew a tire at the opposition blue line, leading to a goal against. Still looks like Lucas Kraijick to me, I like Lucas but I don't see Jakes value being nearly as high as leaf fans think. Has no physical element to his game at all. Tanev is a better prospect than him.

Kadri, again looked dangerous with the puck, but there is a big difference between playing with 'grit' and actually being able to back it up. Got into a pushing match with Jessiman, seriously? Kids going to get himself pummeled. Nice player, but the Canucks need real grit in the top six with Burrows, the Sedins and even Booth already there. Kesler is our only top-6 forward who could be said to be difficult or frustrating to play against.

Ashton looked somewhat interesting, but I am not sure what his upside is.


Other than Kadri these are all prospects that were aquired on the cheap from other teams, they are all projects from what I can see.
In what world is Jake Gardiner a "Project"? He was the best rookie D-Man in the NHl last year and is a former first rounder.

Anaheim making a REALLY bad trade doesn't take anthying away from his value.

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11-23-2012, 06:03 PM
  #824
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Also, since this is a Luongo thread, how does having all of their stars walk encourage them to go out and get a 33 year old goalie. If anything, Toronto would be looking to get prospects and picks, if all of their stars decide to leave. Losing Lupol, Phaneuf, and Kessel would trigger a rebuild not the acquisition of Luongo.
The idea is that by getting Luongo Toronto would show that they want to compete now and would likely make the playoffs in my estimation.

The main reason I think any player plays, beyond the money, is because they want to compete and win. Bringing in a goalie that can help you win helps when it comes to re-signing players.

You rarely see contenders who are doing everything they can to win lose key players whereas teams that aren't competitive or have shown that they won't do what they can to try and win often seem to have problems retaining their key players (general rule, not always).

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11-23-2012, 06:13 PM
  #825
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Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
If your team doesn't go out & try to make themselves better, create a winning environment...etc Guys like Lupul, Phaneuf and Kessel won't want to stay. I know I would personally rather play a smaller role on a good team then be the main go to guy on a bottom 5 team... and I bet Lupul, Phaneuf and Kessel share that feeling. Not only that but you have to start building a winning environment for your prospects but more importantly for your fan base.
These players are not in the twilights of their careers. Toronto has shown a willingness to build around them. What if they acquire Luongo and he has a sub-par year. By your logic, the Leafs really only have one year to wow Kessel and Phaneuf. There is no guarantee Luongo will be the one to do that.

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