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US military cult members call for woman's firing

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Old
11-23-2012, 11:05 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Doppler Drift View Post
If evidence comes forth that she has had an agenda against the military in general and veterans in particular my viewpoint would be changed. But all I see here is a stupid joke gone horribly wrong.
I don't know if you're familiar with where this happened, but the tomb of the unknown soldier is just about the last place on earth you should be ****ing around. There is an expectation of total silence and respect. There is no plausible window here for her to fit a 'joke' in. It's just stupidity. I'm not sure how what she does or who she works for has any sort of bearing on this situation. Am I supposed to feel sorry for her? She wanted attention by posting the photo on facebook. She got it.




She violated a social norm and paid for it. Happens all the time. This one just happens to be very publicized. She's on company time and should know better. Not racist like the Coldstone girl, but equally stupid.

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11-23-2012, 11:12 AM
  #102
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I get that her employer fired her with reason, but it's sad that this kind of Political Correctness is out there whipping up pressure on companies like them.

It's kind of ironic that there's a large overlap of the segment of Americans who decry Political Correctness with the segment who thinks it's fine to demand that this idiot's employer fire her.

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11-23-2012, 11:16 AM
  #103
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I love it when idiots expose themselves on Facebook and/or Twitter. My sister-in-law is the manager of a local credit union. Their fraud department goes online and friends the members that they think are committing fraud. In most cases, the idiots out themselves by bragging about it online.

As far as this woman goes, I find it hard to have sympathy. There's an expectation that adults act like adults in public. Especially in settings that are, at the very least, delicate. I think the National War Cemetery, while we're still at war, qualifies.

Lesson of the day: don't act like a ******** in public, and if it's on the internet, people will find out about it.

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11-23-2012, 11:18 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by kov View Post
I get that her employer fired her with reason, but it's sad that this kind of Political Correctness is out there whipping up pressure on companies like them.

It's kind of ironic that there's a large overlap of the segment of Americans who decry Political Correctness with the segment who thinks it's fine to demand that this idiot's employer fire her.
It seems people have such visceral reactions to these types of things and don't stop to think about them instead of just going off the deep end.

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11-23-2012, 11:26 AM
  #105
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A middle finger at a cemetery. We are living in an enlightened and secular state. No idea why all the outrage. Are we not supposed to be better than that?

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11-23-2012, 01:05 PM
  #106
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Ugh. I feel bad for her since I can easily imagine people I know (and respect) doing something stupid like that. And personally I don't think what she did was all that bad.

But I'm also aware of the hypocrisy of that position since I was totally on board with that racist woman who called Obama a n!gger on twitter getting fired, so I guess I should be ok with her employer turfing her if they think she's bringing negative attention to the company?

Then again, criticism of the pro-military jingoism that is so easy to fall into could be considered a valid political position, which should in turn offer some protection? I dunno it's tough.

And clearly the moral of the story isn't so much don't be a dick as it is don't do stupid **** and post it on facebook. I assume she's learned her lesson, but in a pretty harsh way.

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11-23-2012, 01:07 PM
  #107
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A middle finger at a cemetery. We are living in an enlightened and secular state. No idea why all the outrage. Are we not supposed to be better than that?
Nope.

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11-23-2012, 01:15 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by rebel diamond View Post
And clearly the moral of the story isn't so much don't be a dick as it is don't do stupid **** and post it on facebook. I assume she's learned her lesson, but in a pretty harsh way.
I'd like to think there's morals to both sides -- (a) if you're going to be a dick in a very public way, expect consequences, and (b) if you're gonna claim you value a free society with free speech, you'd better be ready to hear things you don't like without expecting the everyone to enforce your whims.

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11-23-2012, 01:25 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by kov View Post
I'd like to think there's morals to both sides -- (a) if you're going to be a dick in a very public way, expect consequences, and (b) if you're gonna claim you value a free society with free speech, you'd better be ready to hear things you don't like without expecting the everyone to enforce your whims.
Has nothing to do with freedom of speech and everything to do with employers having the right not to have their name associated with someone doing something disrespectful and then stupidly soapboxing it.

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11-23-2012, 01:30 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
Has nothing to do with freedom of speech and everything to do with employers having the right not to have their name associated with someone doing something disrespectful and then stupidly soapboxing it.
It has to do with both things. I am an employer myself, I understand what the employer needs to do, I am saying it's said that we as a society are so happy to go off and form PC-Mobs to enforce this kind of stuff.

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11-23-2012, 01:32 PM
  #111
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Ugh. I feel bad for her since I can easily imagine people I know (and respect) doing something stupid like that. And personally I don't think what she did was all that bad.

But I'm also aware of the hypocrisy of that position since I was totally on board with that racist woman who called Obama a n!gger on twitter getting fired, so I guess I should be ok with her employer turfing her if they think she's bringing negative attention to the company?

Then again, criticism of the pro-military jingoism that is so easy to fall into could be considered a valid political position, which should in turn offer some protection? I dunno it's tough.

And clearly the moral of the story isn't so much don't be a dick as it is don't do stupid **** and post it on facebook. I assume she's learned her lesson, but in a pretty harsh way.
You can speak out against the military without acting like a complete ass at a cemetery dedicated to fallen veterans.

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11-23-2012, 01:40 PM
  #112
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You can speak out against the military without acting like a complete ass at a cemetery dedicated to fallen veterans.
Indeed you can. And there are many much better places to do it (in front of Congress or the White House being the obvious ones). But I have this feeling that the people getting so offended about this the same ones that wonder why muslims get so upset by things like the Jyllands-Posten cartoons.

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11-23-2012, 02:09 PM
  #113
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One of the problem with freedom of speech for everyone is the annoying side effect that too many people thinks their opinions should be heard and are as valuable as any others.

It's one thing to discretely offer your opinion in a conversation or on a internet forum , but to spew it all over in public like it mattered when you're not that informed and knowledgable is something else.We see it everyday , everywhere.

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11-23-2012, 02:13 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Kurtosis View Post
You can speak out against the military without acting like a complete ass at a cemetery dedicated to fallen veterans.
And you are sure that she was speaking out or protesting the military? Show your proof. Do you have any evidence at all that she is an activist of any type? Is there any history of her making negative comments toward the military or veterans?

It looks more to me like she was making a (stupid) joke about the sign.

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11-23-2012, 02:17 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Doppler Drift View Post
And you are sure that she was speaking out or protesting the military? Show your proof. Do you have any evidence at all that she is an activist of any type? Is there any history of her making negative comments toward the military or veterans?

It looks more to me like she was making a (stupid) joke about the sign.
I never said she was. It was a response to another poster.

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11-23-2012, 02:23 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Doppler Drift View Post

It looks more to me like she was making a (stupid) joke about the sign.
The sign is a part of the tone at the tomb. It's there for a reason. A very simple one. One that is expected of any decent human being. It's not a lot to ask. Whether or not she was conscious of this fact is irrelevant. What she did is clearly an affront to the military and what the tomb represents.

If you break it down to what JCD is saying; this person has brought intensely negative attention on your company and you have cause to fire her. If the company is within their rights, does arguing the circumstances really matter?

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11-23-2012, 02:26 PM
  #117
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You can speak out against the military without acting like a complete ass at a cemetery dedicated to fallen veterans.
Tell that to the Westboro Baptist Church.



We take an enlightened approach in Canada and just do not allow your wacko religious wingnuts into our country.

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11-23-2012, 02:39 PM
  #118
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Tell that to the Westboro Baptist Church.



We take an enlightened approach in Canada and just do not allow your wacko religious wingnuts into our country.
Don't get me started on those parasites. I wouldn't mind if those scum were wiped off the face of the planet yesterday. In fact, why can't any of these mass murder psychos target those type of people; it would be the quintessential "killing two birds with one stone" to a T.

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11-23-2012, 02:39 PM
  #119
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11-23-2012, 02:55 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by rebel diamond View Post
Indeed you can. And there are many much better places to do it (in front of Congress or the White House being the obvious ones). But I have this feeling that the people getting so offended about this the same ones that wonder why muslims get so upset by things like the Jyllands-Posten cartoons.
Put it this way: there's a difference between allowing freedom of the press and providing publicists with the right to publish what they want, even potentially inflammatory or offensive material to a specific demographic of people, and physically travelling to a Muslim cemetery and making obscene gestures at the gravestones or making derogatory comments during a Muslim burial (for instance).

The former is acceptable, but the latter is not.

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11-23-2012, 04:20 PM
  #121
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Put it this way: there's a difference between allowing freedom of the press and providing publicists with the right to publish what they want, even potentially inflammatory or offensive material to a specific demographic of people, and physically travelling to a Muslim cemetery and making obscene gestures at the gravestones or making derogatory comments during a Muslim burial (for instance).

The former is acceptable, but the latter is not.
I'm not so sure it is. I mean, it wasn't people that were there in person that noticed and got worked up about it, it was people who saw the photo online later.

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11-23-2012, 04:22 PM
  #122
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So what? That's entirely irrelevant.

In the example that you listed (the Danish cartoons), the people that got offended about the material only knew about the content because of second and third hand sources. There weren't millions of extremist, fundamentalist Muslims watching the Danish cartoonist draw the cartoon from the comfort of his house.

The fact of the matter is that certain places require a minimum standard of respect and decorum. A cemetery is one of those hallowed, sacred places that should be shown respect and a certain level of dignity accorded to the dead. She probably thought that she was being funny or just acting silly, but it was not appropriate given the context.

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11-23-2012, 04:23 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Doppler Drift View Post
And you are sure that she was speaking out or protesting the military? Show your proof. Do you have any evidence at all that she is an activist of any type? Is there any history of her making negative comments toward the military or veterans?

It looks more to me like she was making a (stupid) joke about the sign.
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Originally Posted by Kurtosis View Post
I never said she was. It was a response to another poster.
Indeed, I was the one who brought that up. And I'm totally in agreement that she was probably just making an unfortunate joke. But I'm not really sure what difference that makes. The same rationale (respect) would make Arlington our of bounds to protesters as it would wanna-be comedians.

And I'm totally on board with the "freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences" position, I'm just saying that I feel a bit bad for someone who did something stupid and is being punished in a way that is probably out of proportion to what she did.

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11-23-2012, 04:29 PM
  #124
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The fact of the matter is that certain places require a minimum standard of respect and decorum. A cemetery is one of those hallowed, sacred places that should be shown respect and a certain level of dignity accorded to the dead. She probably thought that she was being funny or just acting silly, but it was not appropriate given the context.
But that's just my point. It's your perspective that Arlington National Cemetery is an inviolable sanctum. The average guy on the street in Karachi probably doesn't share that perspective, but would argue passionately that the Prophet Mohammed must not be disrespected. It's an insult to a symbol many people hold dear. And publishing that on picture facebook is probably a stupid thing because it's perfectly predictable that some people will react badly (and if I was her friend I would've told her off), but it isn't inherently worse than anything else that causes widespread offense to a certain cultural group.

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11-23-2012, 04:36 PM
  #125
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But that's just my point. It's your perspective that Arlington National Cemetery is an inviolable sanctum. The average guy on the street in Karachi probably doesn't share that perspective, but would argue passionately that the Prophet Mohammed must not be disrespected. It's an insult to a symbol many people hold dear. And publishing that on picture facebook is probably a stupid thing because it's perfectly predictable that some people will react badly (and if I was her friend I would've told her off), but it isn't inherently worse than anything else that causes widespread offense to a certain cultural group.
Your examples are inherently contradictory.

Not everyone agrees that freedom of the press is a bad thing. Pretty much everyone agrees that showing respect to the dead is a good thing, including Muslims.

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