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he is better than he was. he has a career high in points, tied his career high in goals, broken 40 goals twice in three seasons, 100 goals in 3 seasons, and achieved career milestones all as a ranger (300 goals). just do the math, you had him for 8 seasons and he had 219 goals and 218 assists. in the last 3 years he has picked up that pace tremendously. 105 goals and 105 assists over his last three years. hes getting better and better.
THE DUDE WAS PLAYING WITH ONE ****ING ARM AND WAS STILL THE 2ND HIGHEST SCORING FORWARD ON A CONFERENCE FINAL TEAM WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT
3rd in goals 15th in points.....i really dont know what more you could want from him. hes not gonna win an art ross or a richard with the competition he has but to say he isnt a 1st liner please. are you suggesting ovechkin is a 2nd liner? how about kopitar, st louis, eric staal, parise, iginla, d sedin, ben, ryder, perry, nash, vanek, or allfie are all 2nd liners? gaborik had more goals and points than all of them. a ton of "honest ranger fans" hate gaborik and would rather see avery there instead. you see them throw gaborik in every trade proposal. in reality gaborik is hands down the best forward that we have until someone else on our team can prove themselves of taking over that title. of the past 3 year the NYR have had 2 players as our highest point scorer. gaborik has 2 years with that title and of the two players who achieved it he is the only one still on the team
you clearly do have some gaborik hate or you have not seen him at all in the past 3 years. not clutch in the playoffs? how many active players have ended a 3OT game?
That's because the Rangers over the last three seasons are significantly better than the Wild when Gaborik was playing for them. Gaborik was playing with beyond scrub players. Put younger Gaborik on the current Rangers and the guy scores 50 goals easy.
Also, it's not like a labrum surgery isn't serious. I actually had the same injury and surgery as Gaborik a year ago. I also played hockey on that injury for months. And it's not something that you are guaranteed to come back from 100% after the surgery. In addition to closing the tear in your labrum, most times they have to tighten up all your shoulder ligaments. You can get most your strength back, but it's very easy to have your shoulder muscles tighten up from time to time and you need constant rehab for more like 9 months and routine work after than.
And the funny thing is that Sather agrees with me. He wasn't going to chance another playoff run on Gaborik's body and the aging Richards. He went out and got Nash, which I think he pulled off brilliantly.
I actually live in Manhattan and have great respect for the team the Rangers have put together. I think trading Gaborik would be a major mistake. But I'm not so silly to pretend that Gaborik has monster trade value. He's got value to a contender and nobody else. Which just happens to be the Rangers.
That's because the Rangers over the last three seasons are significantly better than the Wild when Gaborik was playing for them. Gaborik was playing with beyond scrub players. Put younger Gaborik on the current Rangers and the guy scores 50 goals easy.
when gabs was on the wild you guys were in pretty much the same place we were when he joined us, a contender to make the playoffs. we havent done anything at all since this past year. beyond scrubs? didnt he play on the same team as koivu, burns, brunette, and demitra for over a year?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickschultzfan
And the funny thing is that Sather agrees with me. He wasn't going to chance another playoff run on Gaborik's body and the aging Richards. He went out and got Nash, which I think he pulled off brilliantly.
the nash trade was practically a gift. gaborik is still the best player on this team by a fair margin. nash is completely unproven here and until he shows what he can do under the spotlight you cant assume that gaborik has just been replaced.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickschultzfan
I actually live in Manhattan and have great respect for the team the Rangers have put together. I think trading Gaborik would be a major mistake. But I'm not so silly to pretend that Gaborik has monster trade value. He's got value to a contender and nobody else. Which just happens to be the Rangers.
im not for trading gaborik at all but when the only guys with more goals than him are malkin and stamkos common he has an insanely high trade value any team would kill for a 1st liner like gaborik. he is a top 15 point scorer in this league the only players with more goals than him are malkin, stamkos, giroux, spezza, kovalchuck, kessel, neal, tavares, henrik sedin, elias, karlsson, hossa, whitney, and thornton. he is in a category with all of these elite players. gaborik does have a monster trade value.
No one will trade their 1st pick for one year of Graborik.
Vancouver would and frankly, any serious playoff team that could manage it would be stupid not to. The exception being if Gaborik was having a poor year.
when gabs was on the wild you guys were in pretty much the same place we were when he joined us, a contender to make the playoffs. we havent done anything at all since this past year. beyond scrubs? didnt he play on the same team as koivu, burns, brunette, and demitra for over a year?
the nash trade was practically a gift. gaborik is still the best player on this team by a fair margin. nash is completely unproven here and until he shows what he can do under the spotlight you cant assume that gaborik has just been replaced.
im not for trading gaborik at all but when the only guys with more goals than him are malkin and stamkos common he has an insanely high trade value any team would kill for a 1st liner like gaborik. he is a top 15 point scorer in this league the only players with more goals than him are malkin, stamkos, giroux, spezza, kovalchuck, kessel, neal, tavares, henrik sedin, elias, karlsson, hossa, whitney, and thornton. he is in a category with all of these elite players. gaborik does have a monster trade value.
Nah the wild were pretty scrubby during gaboriks time. They got wins by lemaires defence and timely gaborik goals. Gaborik played with demitra but the other guy on that line was branko radivojevic or Todd fedoruk. Dead serious. It was worse before that.
Not all top 15 scorers are equal. Whitney does not have the same trade value as stamkos. Gaborik is worth less than most top 30 forwards and a lot of centers who get less points than him.
My original point is that gaborik isn't worth much to the Wild. We got a good core and just need to wait until our young players make an nhl impact. Gaborik is too old and beat up for our tmelime. Sure some cup contender might pay a1st and a mason Raymond for gaborik. But the Rangers aren't going to accept that.
Nah the wild were pretty scrubby during gaboriks time. They got wins by lemaires defence and timely gaborik goals. Gaborik played with demitra but the other guy on that line was branko radivojevic or Todd fedoruk. Dead serious. It was worse before that.
Not all top 15 scorers are equal. Whitney does not have the same trade value as stamkos. Gaborik is worth less than most top 30 forwards and a lot of centers who get less points than him.
My original point is that gaborik isn't worth much to the Wild. We got a good core and just need to wait until our young players make an nhl impact. Gaborik is too old and beat up for our tmelime. Sure some cup contender might pay a1st and a mason Raymond for gaborik. But the Rangers aren't going to accept that.
these are still prime years for gab. he could play another decade in reality. you seem to think he is on the verge of retirement hes not even close to done
these are still prime years for gab. he could play another decade in reality. you seem to think he is on the verge of retirement hes not even close to done
He could play 2 more years or 10. Nobody knows. I'm just looking at history and the number of injuries Gaborik has had. I'm comparing how he currently plays to what he used to be. He'll be an elite player for 3-4 years probably, and then he's bounce around to teams needing secondary scoring.
Saying that Gaborik fits best on the Rangers 2nd line at this point in his career is not throwing down the gauntlet and saying he's a bum and will always be a bum.
It's saying he'll be most effective over the next 1-3 seasons if he's viewed as the role of Sharp to the Hawks in 2010, Ryder to the Bruins in 2011, and Carter to the Kings in 2012 - that needed goal scorer on the 2nd line of the Cup winning team.
He could play 2 more years or 10. Nobody knows. I'm just looking at history and the number of injuries Gaborik has had. I'm comparing how he currently plays to what he used to be. He'll be an elite player for 3-4 years probably, and then he's bounce around to teams needing secondary scoring.
Saying that Gaborik fits best on the Rangers 2nd line at this point in his career is not throwing down the gauntlet and saying he's a bum and will always be a bum.
It's saying he'll be most effective over the next 1-3 seasons if he's viewed as the role of Sharp to the Hawks in 2010, Ryder to the Bruins in 2011, and Carter to the Kings in 2012 - that needed goal scorer on the 2nd line of the Cup winning team.
gaborik is not the glassorik you knew in minny. the doctors in minny kept diagnosing his problem incorectly, know that hes had the proper surgery hes been one of the healthier players on our team. im saying he does not belong on the 2nd line. we need to spread the talent so he will almost certainly not be playing with nash but that does not make him a second liner. gab is NOT declining and his numbers show it. he is our best forward and will play on a top 6 line which really cant be called lines 1 and 2 they are more like line 1 and line A if you look at the talent we have. either one would be an effective 1st line on most teams. but you dont just put a top 3 goal scorer on the 2nd line
Nah the wild were pretty scrubby during gaboriks time. They got wins by lemaires defence and timely gaborik goals. Gaborik played with demitra but the other guy on that line was branko radivojevic or Todd fedoruk. Dead serious. It was worse before that.
Not all top 15 scorers are equal. Whitney does not have the same trade value as stamkos. Gaborik is worth less than most top 30 forwards and a lot of centers who get less points than him.
My original point is that gaborik isn't worth much to the Wild. We got a good core and just need to wait until our young players make an nhl impact. Gaborik is too old and beat up for our tmelime. Sure some cup contender might pay a1st and a mason Raymond for gaborik. But the Rangers aren't going to accept that.
Are we talking our division championship or 2002/2005ish? 07-08 the Wild were kind of stacked. Wasn't our top line something like Demitra-Koivu-Gaborik and our first pairing was Schultz-Burns?
Disregarding some of the points you made, Girardi makes 3.325. We're not going to find a top pairing defender for under that. And we have no other dead weight to move. Staal for 3.975? Callahan for 4.275? Besides Hank and our big three, they're the only ones currently making above 2 mil and none warrant a move.
Thank you for reminding me on the correct salary #.
The point is still valid, however. Defenseman is usually more expendable than a 30G scorer (with 40ish G upside), especially with Staal on payroll.
I agree entirely none warrant a move.
My point is, IF a move is made, Girardi is the odd man out --- UNLESS you put 2 other guys together to cover his 3.325.
Thank you for reminding me on the correct salary #.
The point is still valid, however. Defenseman is usually more expendable than a 30G scorer (with 40ish G upside), especially with Staal on payroll.
I agree entirely none warrant a move.
My point is, IF a move is made, Girardi is the odd man out --- UNLESS you put 2 other guys together to cover his 3.325.
No, he's not.
IF a move is made, it's because we need something like 5-6 mil of space to sign guys, in which case Gaborik is the odd man out, not Girardi+whoever.
I think Nash would be the first guy to go if the Rangers need a bucketload of cap space. He makes more money than Gaborik but he is not quite as good.
Although we might be on the hook for Redden if the small markets have their way with the new CBA. Just wondering, can management pressure a player to retire?
I think Nash would be the first guy to go if the Rangers need a bucketload of cap space. He makes more money than Gaborik but he is not quite as good.
Although we might be on the hook for Redden if the small markets have their way with the new CBA. Just wondering, can management pressure a player to retire?
doesnt nash still have that no trade clause. dumping redden could help too
I think Nash would be the first guy to go if the Rangers need a bucketload of cap space. He makes more money than Gaborik but he is not quite as good.
Although we might be on the hook for Redden if the small markets have their way with the new CBA. Just wondering, can management pressure a player to retire?
No.
And Nash won't be the guy to go. He's younger and the Rangers feel he fits our identity more. I know hopefully we have this year with both of them, but I viewed that trade as an eventual replacement for Gaborik.
Are we talking our division championship or 2002/2005ish? 07-08 the Wild were kind of stacked. Wasn't our top line something like Demitra-Koivu-Gaborik and our first pairing was Schultz-Burns?
Koivu didn't play with Gaborik and Demitra. He had a broken leg and then he played with Rolston. The first line that year was Voros/Fedoruk/Radio-Demitra-Gaborik. It was Fedoruk in the playoffs.
Koivu didn't play with Gaborik and Demitra. He had a broken leg and then he played with Rolston. The first line that year was Voros/Fedoruk/Radio-Demitra-Gaborik. It was Fedoruk in the playoffs.
Demitra has never played center in his time with the Wild......
It would look something like Demitra-Belanger-Gaborik.
Thank you for reminding me on the correct salary #.
The point is still valid, however. Defenseman is usually more expendable than a 30G scorer (with 40ish G upside), especially with Staal on payroll.
I agree entirely none warrant a move.
My point is, IF a move is made, Girardi is the odd man out --- UNLESS you put 2 other guys together to cover his 3.325.
Saving Girardi's salary will not be enough to sign the RFA's we have coming up next summer let alone the UFA's the year after.
Fact is, we are probably going to have to make the Gaborik move at the draft and then still look to move girardi the following year.
any one of these trades would work for me as a Rangers fan...
From Nucks
Gaunce, Tanev 1st for Gaborik
The value looks fair on paper, but I wouldn't feel comfortable giving that much unless we had the cap space. The Canucks still have to extend Edler, and although we'd likely shed cap space when we trade Luongo, we'd still have to find ways to shed salary(Ballard/Raymond/Malhotra) before making a deal like that.
But if we get the opportunity to acquire/sign Corey Perry, then it's definitely a no-go imo.
Demitra has never played center in his time with the Wild......
It would look something like Demitra-Belanger-Gaborik.
He certainly did play center for some brief stints, because Riser refused to bring in any help for the center position. When Walz suddenly retired in the fall of 2007, Demitra had to fill in a few times at center. That's when things started to get a little rocky, because Demitra wasn't happy about playing that position. There's an article at the top of the search results here referring to how he was being shifted around, but it's archived. Here's another game summary about Demo coming back from injury.
Quote:
Playing out of his natural position, Demitra centered the Wild's No. 1 line, with Aaron Voros (two assists) and Marian Gaborik (one goal) as his wing-men.
The Walz incident, numerous injuries, and Riser relying on a guy like Sheppard...these things forced Demitra to sometimes be thrown in that spot. It wasn't pretty.
Now as for Gabby coming back to the Wild? Nope. That ship has sailed. Don't want to go there. And that's not meant as an insult towards Gabby in any way. Could we use a sniper like that? Heck yeah. Does he still have the talent? You bet! But we've got the prospect cupboard full for once, and a roster that is starting to take some shape. We don't need to start retracing our steps. What's done is done. I wish the guy the best, but his days in Wild colors need to stay in the past. He may not be that old, but he's starting to get to a point where he needs to be with a team that not just has a chance to make the playoffs, but is also a Cup contender. The Wild aren't there yet. They've got to get back to the playoffs first.
He certainly did play center for some brief stints, because Riser refused to bring in any help for the center position. When Walz suddenly retired in the fall of 2007, Demitra had to fill in a few times at center. That's when things started to get a little rocky, because Demitra wasn't happy about playing that position. There's an article at the top of the search results here referring to how he was being shifted around, but it's archived. Here's another game summary about Demo coming back from injury.
The Walz incident, numerous injuries, and Riser relying on a guy like Sheppard...these things forced Demitra to sometimes be thrown in that spot. It wasn't pretty.
Now as for Gabby coming back to the Wild? Nope. That ship has sailed. Don't want to go there. And that's not meant as an insult towards Gabby in any way. Could we use a sniper like that? Heck yeah. Does he still have the talent? You bet! But we've got the prospect cupboard full for once, and a roster that is starting to take some shape. We don't need to start retracing our steps. What's done is done. I wish the guy the best, but his days in Wild colors need to stay in the past. He may not be that old, but he's starting to get to a point where he needs to be with a team that not just has a chance to make the playoffs, but is also a Cup contender. The Wild aren't there yet. They've got to get back to the playoffs first.
And adding Gaborik at a reasonable cost wouldn't make the Wild a contender? It's not like we would be sending Coyle, Granlund, Spurgeon, Phillips, Brodin, Dumba, and everybody else for one year of Gaborik. At most it would be one of our blue chip prospects and some draft picks coming to New York + a top six forward. Playoff experience does wonders for developing prospects. Bad drafting under Riseborough is what killed our contending days, with studs like AJ Thelen, James Sheppard, Benoit Pouliot, and Colton Gillies taken in the first round with 15th and higher picks. I think Matt Kassian and O'Sullivan in the second round deserves a mention too.
We've got the drafting down, but by the time our deep prospect pool develops, Parise, Suter, Koivu, Bouchard, and Gilbert will all be on the downslope of their careers. Gaborik could get us a Cup while we have a relatively young team. If it gets to the point where NYR is forced to trade Gaborik for salary reasons, they'd probably have won a Cup by then.
Last edited by Kris Chreider: 11-25-2012 at 10:27 PM.
And adding Gaborik at a reasonable cost wouldn't make the Wild a contender? It's not like we would be sending Coyle, Granlund, Spurgeon, Phillips, Brodin, Dumba, and everybody else for one year of Gaborik. At most it would be one of our blue chip prospects and some draft picks coming to New York + a top six forward. Playoff experience does wonders for developing prospects. Bad drafting under Riseborough is what killed our contending days, with studs like AJ Thelen, James Sheppard, Benoit Pouliot, and Colton Gillies taken in the first round with 15th and higher picks. I think Matt Kassian and O'Sullivan in the second round deserves a mention too.
We've got the drafting down, but by the time our deep prospect pool develops, Parise, Suter, Koivu, Bouchard, and Gilbert will all be on the downslope of their careers. Gaborik could get us a Cup while we have a relatively young team. If it gets to the point where NYR is forced to trade Gaborik for salary reasons, they'd probably have won a Cup by then.
Nope. He wouldn't make them a Cup contender. Why? Because this team has more work to do on its blueline. Could they make the playoffs with their current defense? Possibly. Could they be a Cup contender with that blueline (even with Gabby?) No freaking way. It was pitiful last year, and even though we've got Suter on board, it's still a major work in progress.
And I would take Bouchard out of the equation, because he is one hit away from retirement. He's one of the biggest question marks on this team, and chances are the only way he stays next year is if he signs a 1-year deal for very cheap.
Nope. He wouldn't make them a Cup contender. Why? Because this team has more work to do on its blueline. Could they make the playoffs with their current defense? Possibly. Could they be a Cup contender with that blueline (even with Gabby?) No freaking way. It was pitiful last year, and even though we've got Suter on board, it's still a major work in progress.
And I would take Bouchard out of the equation, because he is one hit away from retirement. He's one of the biggest question marks on this team, and chances are the only way he stays next year is if he signs a 1-year deal for very cheap.
Washington has Mike Green out for half the year most seasons, so his insane PPG isn't usually displayed. Their defense isn't that different from ours, if slightly stronger. Parise and Ovechkin both got 65 points last year and Parise has the much better two-way game. I do think that Washington's contending days are soon to be over though.
For comparison:
MIN
Parise-Koivu-Heatley
Bouchard-Granlund-Setoguchi
Zucker-Cullen-Coyle
Konopka-Brodziak-Mitchell
I think Matt Kassian and O'Sullivan in the second round deserves a mention too.
