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Some trade proposals of mine

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Old
11-23-2012, 11:12 PM
  #151
thadd
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The Phoenix one isn't bad.

No way in hell Colorado is going to cough up EJ at that price. That would be like pulling a Nash IMO.

Don't know what to think of the Ranger's one.

No way Montreal coughs up their best center for that. Kuli is still an unproven top 6 forward, Gunnar wouldn't bring much improvement to Montreal's top 6D and the prospect isn't anything to write home about.

The Edmonton deal is hilarious. That's the lowest of the lowball offers I've seen for Yakupov so far.

A first overall pick for two decent prospects, a 2nd line center who's played minutes behind Ovechkin and Backstrom and what will be a late first rounder? Give me a break.

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11-23-2012, 11:19 PM
  #152
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Wow I never knew Avs fans were so feisty

I don't see how Smith, Nyquist and a 3rd for Johnson isn't fair value wise. According to HF (so no homer influence... experts) , Smith is a top-15 prospect and Nyquist is a top-40 prospect in the NHL. Johnson is obviously a good defenseman but I don't see what more you could ask a team to give for a guy who's not even a legit #1 defenseman (but could develop into one). I agree that neither team should do this trade, but to say the value isn't there is ridiculous in my mind.

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11-24-2012, 12:08 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by 13 HockeyTown 40 View Post
Wow I never knew Avs fans were so feisty

I don't see how Smith, Nyquist and a 3rd for Johnson isn't fair value wise. According to HF (so no homer influence... experts) , Smith is a top-15 prospect and Nyquist is a top-40 prospect in the NHL. Johnson is obviously a good defenseman but I don't see what more you could ask a team to give for a guy who's not even a legit #1 defenseman (but could develop into one). I agree that neither team should do this trade, but to say the value isn't there is ridiculous in my mind.
That's just it...we don't create these proposals...if Detroit does not want to give more, fine. That is completely understandable. We don't care if other teams want to give nothing. Notice its always other teams fans creating proposals for guys like Stastny/O'Reilly/Duchene, and in this case, Johnson. Johnson is most likely not a #1 D, but he is our #1 D if that makes sense, so we value him as such. The most ridiculous part in this thread was/is the wings fans laughing at the Avs for not saying yes, including telling Avs fans our GM would take this and run.

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11-24-2012, 10:53 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
That's just it...we don't create these proposals...if Detroit does not want to give more, fine. That is completely understandable. We don't care if other teams want to give nothing. Notice its always other teams fans creating proposals for guys like Stastny/O'Reilly/Duchene, and in this case, Johnson. Johnson is most likely not a #1 D, but he is our #1 D if that makes sense, so we value him as such. The most ridiculous part in this thread was/is the wings fans laughing at the Avs for not saying yes, including telling Avs fans our GM would take this and run.
Yeah I totally understand your point, if I were in your guys' position I'd think the same. My point was the value is definitely there.

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11-24-2012, 11:33 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by 13 HockeyTown 40 View Post
Yeah I totally understand your point, if I were in your guys' position I'd think the same. My point was the value is definitely there.
Problem is your asking for the avs to take futures on a their only top pairing defensemen. This isn't even like our centers thing were you people can choose to believe that no team should have 3 gifted centers, cause we literally have nobody else that you'd ideally want playing as more than the weaker part of your second pairing. So EJ would require more than whatever people decide "fair value" is.

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11-24-2012, 11:35 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by 13 HockeyTown 40 View Post
Yeah I totally understand your point, if I were in your guys' position I'd think the same. My point was the value is definitely there.
The value isn't there at all, Smith who?

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11-24-2012, 11:42 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by 13 HockeyTown 40 View Post
Yeah I totally understand your point, if I were in your guys' position I'd think the same. My point was the value is definitely there.
While the value may not be far off one side or the other, I believe the main issue was that the Detroit pieces were being overvalued causing a "I wouldn't trade one let alone both for EJ" situation. In reality if both players exceeded the original expectations of them, then yes it would be weighed in the Avs favor value wise. "Need" is a different matter and the fact they are still just prospects in the AHL is the other. EJ is a valuable NHL player that cost the Avs basically Shattenkirk and Stewart (swap of picks, etc.) That it would be a wild idea to think that 2 current AHL players would net something that cost a power forward and OFD who were excelling at the NHL level. Let Nyquist and Smith get a year or two in the NHL with success and we may be talking a different tune but again...maybe. I think both Avs and Wings fans have had their overhyped prospects that never panned out so they should understand why the value lies with the former first overall D who has continued to improve and is already a mainstay in the NHL.

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11-24-2012, 12:04 PM
  #158
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The value isn't there at all, Smith who?
I think it's this guy, not 100% sure though.


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11-24-2012, 12:07 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Zandar View Post
While the value may not be far off one side or the other, I believe the main issue was that the Detroit pieces were being overvalued causing a "I wouldn't trade one let alone both for EJ" situation. In reality if both players exceeded the original expectations of them, then yes it would be weighed in the Avs favor value wise. "Need" is a different matter and the fact they are still just prospects in the AHL is the other. EJ is a valuable NHL player that cost the Avs basically Shattenkirk and Stewart (swap of picks, etc.) That it would be a wild idea to think that 2 current AHL players would net something that cost a power forward and OFD who were excelling at the NHL level. Let Nyquist and Smith get a year or two in the NHL with success and we may be talking a different tune but again...maybe. I think both Avs and Wings fans have had their overhyped prospects that never panned out so they should understand why the value lies with the former first overall D who has continued to improve and is already a mainstay in the NHL.
I probably wouldn't trade Smith for Johnson. Just like Colorado wouldn't trade Johnson for that offer plus Tatar and Jarnkrok. It's just somebody's preference.

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11-24-2012, 12:43 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
I think it's this guy, not 100% sure though.

Hmmm reminds me of someone...



OMGZZZ A STAR IS BORN!!!

Give it up, giant homers, nobody but you 'hard core' wings fans think you're right.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1#post55999341

Oh no wait, fans of all the other teams are wrong and it's you 3 or 4 who are right.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg A-Star-Is-Born.jpg‎ (106.0 KB, 107 views)

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11-24-2012, 12:52 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Bender View Post
Hmmm reminds me of someone...



OMGZZZ A STAR IS BORN!!!

Give it up, giant homers, nobody but you 'hard core' wings fans think you're right.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1#post55999341

Oh no wait, fans of all the other teams are wrong and it's you 3 or 4 who are right.
I'm an Oiler fan and i agree with the Wings fans. Johnson is not even close to what he's being made out to be by Av fans. He was sheltered in who his opponents were for the majority of the season, and when he wasn't at the beggining of the year he was lit up to a ridiculous extent. Despite a ridiculous offensive opportunity in Colorado, lots of PP time an offensive zone starts against middle of the road players, he still put up mediocre point totals. He has a tremendous package and potential, but one could say the same about Smith and Nyquvist. Johnson despite being in the NHL for sometime now is barely even closer, if at all, to realizing his potential than the two Detroit prospects. Johnson is looking like the classic example of a player with all the tools but no toolbox.


Last edited by JeffMangum: 11-24-2012 at 01:35 PM.
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11-24-2012, 01:10 PM
  #162
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You are easily the biggest ass of the thread. I'm an Oiler fan and i agree with the Wings fans. Johnson is not even close to what he's being made out to be by Av fans. He was sheltered in who his opponents were for the majority of the season, and when he wasn't at the beggining of the year he was lit up to a ridiculous extent. Despite a ridiculous offensive opportunity in Colorado, lots of PP time an offensive zone starts against middle of the road players, he still put up mediocre point totals. He has a tremendous package and potential, but one could say the same about Smith and Nyquvist. Johnson despite being in the NHL for sometime now is barely even closer, if at all, to realizing his potential than the two Detroit prospects. Johnson is looking like the classic example of a player with all the tools but no toolbox.
And you are easily one of the most ignorant people on HFBoards. I knew you would have to leave your opinion in an Avs thread related to Johnson. Seriously, what did this guy ever do to you? You are an Oiler fan? I've seen several other Oiler fans agreeing with the Avs. Whats your point? Being an Oiler fan makes you right or something? Pardon me if I don't take a guy seriously who thinks Smid is better than Johnson.

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11-24-2012, 01:12 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
I'm an Oiler fan and i agree with the Wings fans. Johnson is not even close to what he's being made out to be by Av fans. He was sheltered in who his opponents were for the majority of the season, and when he wasn't at the beggining of the year he was lit up to a ridiculous extent. Despite a ridiculous offensive opportunity in Colorado, lots of PP time an offensive zone starts against middle of the road players, he still put up mediocre point totals. He has a tremendous package and potential, but one could say the same about Smith and Nyquvist. Johnson despite being in the NHL for sometime now is barely even closer, if at all, to realizing his potential than the two Detroit prospects. Johnson is looking like the classic example of a player with all the tools but no toolbox.
Shocker.

So surprised to see someone posting 'silly' advanced stats because when they WATCH a game, they don't really understand what they are watching.

Apparently, everyone else who voted is ALSO wrong and they can't see EJ the way you guys do either??? Gimme a break!

Yeah, obviously EJ cannot be as good as Petry but what can you do? Lol


Last edited by JeffMangum: 11-24-2012 at 01:33 PM.
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11-24-2012, 01:12 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
I'm an Oiler fan and i agree with the Wings fans. Johnson is not even close to what he's being made out to be by Av fans. He was sheltered in who his opponents were for the majority of the season, and when he wasn't at the beggining of the year he was lit up to a ridiculous extent. Despite a ridiculous offensive opportunity in Colorado, lots of PP time an offensive zone starts against middle of the road players, he still put up mediocre point totals. He has a tremendous package and potential, but one could say the same about Smith and Nyquvist. Johnson despite being in the NHL for sometime now is barely even closer, if at all, to realizing his potential than the two Detroit prospects. Johnson is looking like the classic example of a player with all the tools but no toolbox.
When will you stop posting your comments based on seeing statistics and start basing your opinion on having actually watched the player in question?


Last edited by JeffMangum: 11-24-2012 at 01:37 PM.
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Old
11-24-2012, 01:25 PM
  #165
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Johnson despite being in the NHL for sometime now is barely even closer, if at all, to realizing his potential than the two Detroit prospects. Johnson is looking like the classic example of a player with all the tools but no toolbox.
I'm trying to figure this out. If Johnson (who is CURRENTLY, at worst, a top 4 D in the NHL) is barely closer to realizing his potential than two prospects (who, at worst, are possible top 6 winger/ top 4 D)... what exactly is his potential? If we are now measuring them by where they are and how much more they could still improve... wouldn't the one who has been at the NHL level as a very good D be worth more than the prospects if they both have about the same amount to go to reach their potential? So if Nyquist and Smith (in some peoples' eyes) are a first line forward & top pairing D respectively... does that make Johnson a superstar franchise defender?

Johnson has to work on consistency and not trying to do everything himself (because he has borderline top 4 D's as partners). He's not the next Chris Pronger and even if he was, it took Pronger 6 seasons before he broke out (produced more than 36 points) and dominated offensively. Johnson just completed his 4th NHL season and has produced more points in his first 4 seasons than Pronger did despite Chris playing with guys named Demitra, Turgeon, Hull and MacInnis at the top of their games. Johnson has had Duchene, Stastny, Landeskog and Quincey. I don't understand why everyone expects so much from Johnson so early. Very rare a D is a top pairing so young. Especially one who is using the size and skills Johnson has and the young team he has to work with.

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11-24-2012, 01:52 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
I think it's this guy, not 100% sure though.

So a guy who played 14 games and played 15 minutes a night? That's what you're gloating about? Sad days ahead for Wings fans.

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11-24-2012, 02:36 PM
  #167
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So a guy who played 14 games and played 15 minutes a night? That's what you're gloating about? Sad days ahead for Wings fans.
I'm pretty sure he was using that to show how well Smith produced with very little ice time. Sure, it's a small sample, but you can't deny that he did excellent offensively while on the team.

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11-24-2012, 02:48 PM
  #168
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And you are easily one of the most ignorant people on HFBoards. I knew you would have to leave your opinion in an Avs thread related to Johnson. Seriously, what did this guy ever do to you? You are an Oiler fan? I've seen several other Oiler fans agreeing with the Avs. Whats your point? Being an Oiler fan makes you right or something? Pardon me if I don't take a guy seriously who thinks Smid is better than Johnson.
Jeez man... The reason he said he was an Oilers fan was to show that he isn't biased towards either team... He doesn't think EJ is as good as you think, it's an opinion... Relax.

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11-24-2012, 02:58 PM
  #169
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I'm pretty sure he was using that to show how well Smith produced with very little ice time. Sure, it's a small sample, but you can't deny that he did excellent offensively while on the team.
Far too many cases of players playing fantastic in short sample sizes and then busting.

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11-24-2012, 03:07 PM
  #170
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If the rangers are giving up Staal then I want Skinner coming my way.

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11-24-2012, 03:20 PM
  #171
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Jeez man... The reason he said he was an Oilers fan was to show that he isn't biased towards either team... He doesn't think EJ is as good as you think, it's an opinion... Relax.
You clearly don't know about Eskimo and Avs fans...he has a reputation. He certainly is biased. He pretends to know everything about our players, yet only watches a few games a year. Everything he knows about our team is from NHL.com. Forget Smid. He has also claimed Jeff Petry is basically just as good as EJ. Sorry, but what I said is true...he really does not have a clue.

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11-24-2012, 03:28 PM
  #172
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Far too many cases of players playing fantastic in short sample sizes and then busting.
Okay...and there are also a ton of cases where players do poorly at first and then do much better. You still can't deny that what Nyquist did in a limited sample size wasn't good.

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11-24-2012, 03:31 PM
  #173
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Okay...and there are also a ton of cases where players do poorly at first and then do much better. You still can't deny that what Nyquist did in a limited sample size wasn't good.
What? I was talking about Smith.

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11-24-2012, 05:02 PM
  #174
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You clearly don't know about Eskimo and Avs fans...he has a reputation. He certainly is biased. He pretends to know everything about our players, yet only watches a few games a year. Everything he knows about our team is from NHL.com. Forget Smid. He has also claimed Jeff Petry is basically just as good as EJ. Sorry, but what I said is true...he really does not have a clue.
Jeff Petry was better than Johnson last year. There is literally zero evidence that could suggest otherwise. Smid was far better too. You have to understand almost every fanbase has called me "biased" on here just for disagreeing. I provided evidence for my position numerous times. Heck i'll even provide the link Avs fan Muffin provided me with before to show how "wrong" i was, which laughably was pretty much dead on with my position, and that's despite the author making the article as optimistic as possible.

http://thehockeywriters.com/overtime...to-redemption/

And my argument with you Av fans has never been that he's a bad player, but that he's not yet a top pairing defenseman. You guys have been trying to tell me he's a top 20 defenseman.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/po...s&pollid=70391

Top 20 is ridiculous. I'm just calling a spade a spade. Heck even Johnson knows he's nothing close to top 20, why else would a former 1st overall sign a 2nd contract that pays him like he's a 2nd pairing defenseman? Going 1st overall provides a guy with a lot of leverage in negotiations. He just isn't at the point where he's a top pairing guy yet. So who's more biased, me for thinking Johnson is a 2nd pairing defenseman (and his results and contract certainly reflect that) or you for hilariously thinking Johnson is the 20th best dman in the league? Wait, check that you think he's the 17th best:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/po...s&pollid=70161

Yep clearly i'm the biased one.

I think it's hilarious that you think i just study NHL.com for my opinions. Yes i never watch hockey... How terrible a person i must be that i bother to provide evidence to support my opinion, clearly the act of using evidence means i never watch him play.

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11-24-2012, 05:05 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
And you are easily one of the most ignorant people on HFBoards. I knew you would have to leave your opinion in an Avs thread related to Johnson. Seriously, what did this guy ever do to you? You are an Oiler fan? I've seen several other Oiler fans agreeing with the Avs. Whats your point? Being an Oiler fan makes you right or something? Pardon me if I don't take a guy seriously who thinks Smid is better than Johnson.
Are you for real? Did you not read the comment i responded to? For calling a guy ignorant perhaps you should be a little more perceptive, it's rather ironic for you to call me ignorant when you clearly were too ignorant to understand the point i was making. Perhaps i cited the fact that i was an Oiler fan due to something the fellow i quoted was responding to. hmmm.... I'm on this thread because of the Oiler proposal, but i'll still comment on things i find interesting. It's my opinion, i'm entitled to state it. Stop crying about it.

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