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NYI & Barclays Center To Make Major Announcement (mod edit: NYI to Brooklyn in 2015)

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11-21-2012, 05:29 PM
  #626
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
Keep telling yourself that Barclays is somehow different from every other arena with similar configurations. You're just blindly following obviously non-objective statements designed to convince the appeal and suitability of the venue as an NHL home and calling people on the outside that are questioning the official line as mere media hacks.

This has been discussed ad nauseam in topics regarding the Isles and Barclays for months now. It's not a shocking revelation to anyone and has been discussed by the media for as long as well.
You're nuts. Never said Barclay's wasn't different. Just proved you wrong as usual. Yup the builder is non objective.

You are so far removed from the local facts mentioned and you are embarrasing yourself. Move to NY and you might have a clue what Ratner is about and what he said of the arena.. Until then, you're a far away listener of drivel and provide humorous entertainment.

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11-21-2012, 05:39 PM
  #627
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What are you guys arguing about, whether or not there are obstructed seats? If so, there definitely will be, and that's a widely-known fact.

I doubt they would go unsold, and instead just be discounted.

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11-21-2012, 06:42 PM
  #628
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What are you guys arguing about, whether or not there are obstructed seats? If so, there definitely will be, and that's a widely-known fact.

I doubt they would go unsold, and instead just be discounted.
A fact by who? Media or developer?Prove it. But not THOUSANDS as wrong homey thinks. There will be 14,500 unobstructed seats. Period. Per the man not some wannabe clueless journalist/reader. Or HF non expert.

And you're wrong for the most part. Ratner said most seats will be "perfect views" for hockey. So show us where there will definitely be unobstructed seats sold.

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11-21-2012, 09:25 PM
  #629
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Give it a rest, dude. When your only response to everyone else and various media articles that specifically say "many" and "thousands" of partially obstructed seats is that everyone that disagrees with you is a hack or clueless, and then as proof you roll out obviously non-objective folks just saying "nuh-uh," you're not making a very good point.

Me not living in Brooklyn doesn't mean I can't read the same articles available to everyone else, hear the same reports as everyone else, and come to the same conclusions as everyone else, except for you and a couple other Islander fans willing to accept a PR spin at face value.

And you just admitted that there will be obstructed seats but are still saying that there will be 14,500 unobstructed seats, which is physically impossible given the fact that, get this, that's how many seats are there to begin with.

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11-22-2012, 06:09 AM
  #630
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
Give it a rest, dude. When your only response to everyone else and various media articles that specifically say "many" and "thousands" of partially obstructed seats is that everyone that disagrees with you is a hack or clueless, and then as proof you roll out obviously non-objective folks just saying "nuh-uh," you're not making a very good point.

Me not living in Brooklyn doesn't mean I can't read the same articles available to everyone else, hear the same reports as everyone else, and come to the same conclusions as everyone else, except for you and a couple other Islander fans willing to accept a PR spin at face value.

And you just admitted that there will be obstructed seats but are still saying that there will be 14,500 unobstructed seats, which is physically impossible given the fact that, get this, that's how many seats are there to begin with.


His argument is that there's a considerable difference, between saying there will be some obstructed seats and there will be thousands of obstructed seats.



http://www.barclayscenter.com/events...seating-charts

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11-22-2012, 09:21 PM
  #631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
His argument is that there's a considerable difference, between saying there will be some obstructed seats and there will be thousands of obstructed seats.



http://www.barclayscenter.com/events...seating-charts
I go off media reports, and plenty have used "thousands," and likely in the ballpark of around 2,000ish for them to use that plural form. And, depending on if they really do squeeze in more seats, which would inherently have to be in the end that has mostly obstructed seats anyway, that would almost assuredly add more partially obstructed seats.

And guess what.... even if it's not in the thousands and only in the hundreds, that's still pretty ****ty for a modern NHL arena and clearly is indicative that it wasn't built with NHL hockey in mind.

Also, there's a difference between making one's point and providing third party citations backing it up and attacking other posters and sources just because he didn't want to believe them.

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11-23-2012, 08:01 AM
  #632
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[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
I go off media reports, and plenty have used "thousands," and likely in the ballpark of around 2,000ish for them to use that plural form. And, depending on if they really do squeeze in more seats, which would inherently have to be in the end that has mostly obstructed seats anyway, that would almost assuredly add more partially obstructed seats.

And guess what.... even if it's not in the thousands and only in the hundreds, that's still pretty ****ty for a modern NHL arena and clearly is indicative that it wasn't built with NHL hockey in mind.


Your 2,000 obstructed seats number, is based on YOUR opinion of media reports, saying sections X,Y and Z will be obstructed. Why not make the figure 3,000? 4,000? It's based on what, a gut feeling ?
I'll wait and get a figure of how many seats will be obstructed, how many will be discounted from someone with actual first hand knowledge.



Quote:
there's a difference between making one's point and providing third party citations backing it up and attacking other posters and sources just because he didn't want to believe them.
Would that be like the fans who brush aside Bettman and Wang's statements, that there will be 500-1,000 additional seats added?

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11-23-2012, 10:20 PM
  #633
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Your 2,000 obstructed seats number, is based on YOUR opinion of media reports, saying sections X,Y and Z will be obstructed. Why not make the figure 3,000? 4,000? It's based on what, a gut feeling ?

I'll wait and get a figure of how many seats will be obstructed, how many will be discounted from someone with actual first hand knowledge.
No, it's based off the media reports I posted, amongst many others, as well as an educated guess based on the overall capacity of the venue plus the regions they're cutting back on seats on already. I figured 2,000ish, but it might be more, and I doubt it would be less otherwise the media that used "thousands" probably would've used a different phrasing.

Quote:
Would that be like the fans who brush aside Bettman and Wang's statements, that there will be 500-1,000 additional seats added?
Discounting people that would have no reason to admit the truth =/= discounting people that would have no reason to lie. As I mentioned before, the folks that have spoken about the suitability of the venue and it having no obstructed seats are all affiliated in one way, shape, or form, with the arena itself, the team, or the league and therefore their word is obviously coming from a non-objective angle and should not be taken at face value when conflicting reports from legitimate third party sources are contradicting them.

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11-23-2012, 10:32 PM
  #634
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That article says the Mets considered a retractable dome plan in 1998.
There is no mention of the NYI in that article.

Wang didn't buy the isles until 2000. He wasn't awarded the arena Lighthouse deal until 2005.
I am getting closer. Apparently at one point the plans did call for the stadium to be able to be converted and used for hockey. Again no specific references to the Islanders but who else would it be.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/1998...yankee-stadium

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11-23-2012, 10:32 PM
  #635
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This would be a great argument if the lease was 3 years, but it's 25, so the viability of the arena is not really in question. It obviously won't be ideal, but it will still house an NHL tenant for 25 years at the minimum. And following those 25 years, whether or not the Islanders remain in the Barclays Center will depend entirely on the amount of revenue generated in the building, not what the number of obstructed seats is.

So I don't quite get the point of the argument. It is a worthwhile argument when discussing whether or not a team should move to the building, but the Islanders, and the NHL, have already decided that it will work, and that a team will play there until 2041, whether there are 17,000 unobstructed seats, or zero.

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11-23-2012, 10:39 PM
  #636
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Originally Posted by Islander102 View Post
This would be a great argument if the lease was 3 years, but it's 25, so the viability of the arena is not really in question. It obviously won't be ideal, but it will still house an NHL tenant for 25 years at the minimum. And following those 25 years, whether or not the Islanders remain in the Barclays Center will depend entirely on the amount of revenue generated in the building, not what the number of obstructed seats is.

So I don't quite get the point of the argument. It is a worthwhile argument when discussing whether or not a team should move to the building, but the Islanders, and the NHL, have already decided that it will work, and that a team will play there until 2041, whether there are 17,000 unobstructed seats, or zero.
I'm not questioning the viability of the arena. The location in NYC and the big increase in luxury booths alone will make it a far better option than Nassau in terms of revenue generation. I'm only pointing out that it's not going to be a great venue for lots of seats, and off of many media reports it will clearly have many partially obstructed seats.

It's viable as an NHL arena but not suitable compared to other barns as it clearly wasn't built with NHL specs in mind. If it was, most of one end wouldn't be permanently shut down and any obstructed seats would not exist. The long lease itself was a big surprise to me when news of it broke, as I honestly thought that Wang might do a 5-10 year thing and hope for better opportunities to build a hockey-specific arena in Brooklyn, Queens, or a suburb on Long Island to develop as the economy recovers. In the short-term, they will be pleased with the improvement over Nassau on their bottom line, but I'm also expecting them to be wishing that they didn't have such a small seating capacity well before their lease ends and especially during years when they're good.

And, just a reminder, the seating capacity is 17,000 for basketball. It will only be 14,500 for hockey.


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11-24-2012, 12:47 AM
  #637
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Thay've said numerous times that for hockey there'll be 14,500 seats but that they'll be looking at increasing that number to around 15,100 by making some small changes.

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11-24-2012, 07:37 AM
  #638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
No, it's based off the media reports I posted, amongst many others, as well as an educated guess based on the overall capacity of the venue plus the regions they're cutting back on seats on already. I figured 2,000ish, but it might be more, and I doubt it would be less otherwise the media that used "thousands" probably would've used a different phrasing.
I've read quite a few articles on the Barclays move and haven't come across one that listed a number for how many seats would be obstructed. From the articles, it sounds like the isles wanted to use the NJ/NYI preseason game, to give them an idea of how the sightlines would be.



And with Bettman and Wang saying they will be adding 500-1,000 seats, you see them cutting back on seats on already

Quote:
Discounting people that would have no reason to admit the truth =/= discounting people that would have no reason to lie. As I mentioned before, the folks that have spoken about the suitability of the venue and it having no obstructed seats are all affiliated in one way, shape, or form, with the arena itself, the team, or the league and therefore their word is obviously coming from a non-objective angle and should not be taken at face value when conflicting reports from legitimate third party sources are contradicting them.
I'm not arguing that there will be obstructed seats. I'm saying that imo those seats will be sold as cheap seats and message boards gms are guessing, over how many seats will be obstructed.

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11-24-2012, 07:42 AM
  #639
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I am getting closer. Apparently at one point the plans did call for the stadium to be able to be converted and used for hockey. Again no specific references to the Islanders but who else would it be.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/1998...yankee-stadium
That article is dated 1998. That was 2 yrs before Wang bought the NYI and 7 yrs before he was awarded the Lighthouse project.

In 1998, the isles were not discussing a move to Queens or the NY Mets possible building plans.

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11-24-2012, 01:59 PM
  #640
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
That article is dated 1998. That was 2 yrs before Wang bought the NYI and 7 yrs before he was awarded the Lighthouse project.

In 1998, the isles were not discussing a move to Queens or the NY Mets possible building plans.
My impression is the Mets were hoping to be able to lure the Islanders and/or Nets not that either the Nets or Islanders were considering it themselves

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11-24-2012, 02:37 PM
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Stupid question #1: what is it about the layout at Barclays that makes it lose so many seats for hockey. Every other arena loses about 1000-1200 seats when converted to hockey but Barclays loses 3200.

Stupid question #2: Why the heck did it cost $1 billion. I know everything in New York is more expensive but the Prudential Center cost $375 million which is about the going rate for arenas these days I doubt the difference in land costs was $625 million

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11-24-2012, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by aqib View Post
Stupid question #1: what is it about the layout at Barclays that makes it lose so many seats for hockey. Every other arena loses about 1000-1200 seats when converted to hockey but Barclays loses 3200.

Stupid question #2: Why the heck did it cost $1 billion. I know everything in New York is more expensive but the Prudential Center cost $375 million which is about the going rate for arenas these days I doubt the difference in land costs was $625 million
The lower bowl cavity is too small to hold an NHL ice surface with full seaing. They have to retract seating at one end, which eliminates some seats and obstructs the views of others - similar to the configuration of the United Airways center / America West Arena when the 'Yotes played there.


Seating chart from this years cancelled pre-season game at the Barclays Center:


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11-24-2012, 06:25 PM
  #643
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Originally Posted by aqib View Post
Stupid question #1: what is it about the layout at Barclays that makes it lose so many seats for hockey. Every other arena loses about 1000-1200 seats when converted to hockey but Barclays loses 3200.

Stupid question #2: Why the heck did it cost $1 billion. I know everything in New York is more expensive but the Prudential Center cost $375 million which is about the going rate for arenas these days I doubt the difference in land costs was $625 million
Prudential Center is in Newark. Yankee Stadium and Citi Field each costed (is that even a word?) about a billion. Same as the renovation for MSG.

Another thing is the exact location. Barclay's Center is in an extremely populated area, making the land extremely valuable.

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11-24-2012, 07:51 PM
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Prudential Center is in Newark. Yankee Stadium and Citi Field each costed (is that even a word?) about a billion. Same as the renovation for MSG.

Another thing is the exact location. Barclay's Center is in an extremely populated area, making the land extremely valuable.
Citifield was $900 million which was about a 50% premium to Nationals Park built a few years earlier, which I can see given that its New York vs DC but this one is off the charts. Even if Newark gave the Devils the land for free I can't imagine the land under Barclays cost $600 million. .

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11-29-2012, 04:39 PM
  #645
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Maybe in the future, they could put a railing on top of the arena. That way, they could move the scoreboard for hockey games.

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11-29-2012, 06:26 PM
  #646
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Citifield was $900 million which was about a 50% premium to Nationals Park built a few years earlier, which I can see given that its New York vs DC but this one is off the charts. Even if Newark gave the Devils the land for free I can't imagine the land under Barclays cost $600 million. .
It probably was.

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11-29-2012, 06:31 PM
  #647
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Might also want to factor in labor costs in NYC compared to other cities.

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11-29-2012, 06:50 PM
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Might also want to factor in labor costs in NYC compared to other cities.
Thats why I mentioned the Prudential Center, its not like Jersey is THAT much cheaper. I haven't been to Barclays so I was wondering if there was anything so unique about it that it would cost so much and still not be suited for hockey.

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11-29-2012, 06:56 PM
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Thats why I mentioned the Prudential Center, its not like Jersey is THAT much cheaper. I haven't been to Barclays so I was wondering if there was anything so unique about it that it would cost so much and still not be suited for hockey.
Jersey as a whole probably isn't much THAT much cheaper, but when you compare one of the most valuable pieces of land in Brooklyn to one of the lowest in New Jersey, I think there's the answer.

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11-30-2012, 12:22 PM
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Stupid question #1: what is it about the layout at Barclays that makes it lose so many seats for hockey. Every other arena loses about 1000-1200 seats when converted to hockey but Barclays loses 3200.

Stupid question #2: Why the heck did it cost $1 billion. I know everything in New York is more expensive but the Prudential Center cost $375 million which is about the going rate for arenas these days I doubt the difference in land costs was $625 million
Land costs, labor costs, and the fact that like MSG, TD Garden, etc, the building was being built on top of a massive underground transit hub/rail yard. When you do that, you have to worry about building the building in such a way where nothing underneath it will bear the brunt of the weight of the building, so construction is a lot more complicated. It's a lot more expensive than building a building on a giant block of empty land.

Plus the locations aren't really that comparable. Barclays Center is in a ridiculously populated area a stone's throw from Manhattan, a 5 minute walk from absurdly upscale neighborhoods, an 8 minute train ride from lower manhattan. The Prudential Center is much further from manhattan, in a much less populated area, in a neighborhood that was generally viewed as awful until the arena was built. A NYC comparable for where Prudential Center is built would be more like Willets Point than downtown Brooklyn. An NJ comparison for where Barclays is would be more like the Jersey City or Hoboken waterfront, where the building would have likely cost a lot more than 375 mil.

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