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Have we discussed Shanahan yet?

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Old
05-22-2006, 03:01 AM
  #1
WheresBarnaby
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Have we discussed Shanahan yet?

Yes he's old, but can still get it done, and he's going to be a UFA next season...

81 points in 82 games

2005-06 DETR, NHL 82 40 41 81 105 29 14 0 6 289 13.84

Would be a nice weapon, full strength and on the power play. Guys on the Wings board are saying he may want to head back east. Maybe a one or two year contract could help plant some winning seeds. Or do you think I'm fishing?

Wings reshaping?

http://www.freepress.com/apps/pbcs.d.../1053/SPORTS05

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Old
05-22-2006, 03:07 AM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WheresBarnaby
Yes he's old, but can still get it done, and he's going to be a UFA next season...

81 points in 82 games

2005-06 DETR, NHL 82 40 41 81 105 29 14 0 6 289 13.84

Would be a nice weapon, full strength and on the power play. Guys on the Wings board are saying he may want to head back east. Maybe a one or two year contract could help plant some winning seeds. Or do you think I'm fishing?

Wings reshaping?

http://www.freepress.com/apps/pbcs.d.../1053/SPORTS05

id take shanny another guy id like is gary roberts, he also is old and can score too. But id rather try for Gaborik or Havlat or even sign elias

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Old
05-22-2006, 03:09 AM
  #3
SML
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Put away the tackle box...

UFA is the youngest it has ever been. You can get a guy for free at 28 years old. Why go after a guy who is pushing 40?
Shanny isn't going to leave Detroit unless he thinks he has a better shot winning a cup there than Detroit. Can you honestly say that about our club? I cannot. If the Ottawa Senators are offering him a deal, I think he listens. If the NYR are, I say he hangs up the phone. We have our veteran star in Jagr. Stats aren't everything, and we've all seen our fair share of guys who got it done elsewhere and fell on their face here. I would pass...

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Old
05-22-2006, 08:12 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOrtmeyer41
id take shanny another guy id like is gary roberts, he also is old and can score too. But id rather try for Gaborik or Havlat or even sign elias
Shanahan - PASS
Roberts - PASS
Gaborik - you're dreaming
Havlat - I agree
Elias - would like it but won't happen

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Old
05-22-2006, 08:15 AM
  #5
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Could also look at the current Bad news--Hudson thread. Signing players over 35 to multi-year contracts can really come back to haunt you.

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Old
05-22-2006, 09:32 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOrtmeyer41
id take shanny another guy id like is gary roberts, he also is old and can score too.
For the love of.........Come on, JOrt. Kidding, right? Let's rebuild. Let's get younger. Wait, let's sign Shanahan and Roberts. What's wrong with this picture?

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Old
05-22-2006, 11:11 AM
  #7
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if we are talking about a vet on a 1 year deal, i'd take shanny over lots of other options. he can still play and is a great leader and would be a fantastic role model for the kids. i just wish jessiman was closer as shanahan would be the perfect role model for him...

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Old
05-22-2006, 11:41 AM
  #8
CM Lundqvist
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You want to go out and sign Elias to a 5 year 35 million dollar deal? Is it even a given that he'll produce in NY? Like someone said, people do excellent in other places, and fall flat on their faces here. It doesn't matter how old you are. If Shanny is a 1 year stop-gap to help along guys like Dawes, Dubinsky, and Korpikoski, so be it. That valuable time that he takes up will restrain us from not rushing the young talent... Manny Malhotra, Dan Blackburn, etc...

Let's take a look at some other options, I realistically don't see Shanahan coming here unless it becomes an issue of playing time, because in Detroit, his days are probably numbered with that.

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Old
05-22-2006, 11:54 AM
  #9
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The reason that a lot of the vets we signed in the past ultimately failed here in NY was because we never had a system. When you let all of these players run wild and do what they want, nothing is going to go right.

Look what we did in the first year of a rebuild...Renney and co. took this team and made it work within the system. A lot of the players on this team really overachieved and look a lot better just because of the system. Rozsival, for example, is a product of the system. He's got some talent but not nearly enough to do what he does in another system.

IMO, Elias seems to be a fit for this system. Solid two-way player and has a nice physical edge. Can't really go wrong...

Alright, enough of my rambling...I do want to say that we should go after Savard this off-season. Perfect playmaker for our top line and still young. That could bump Nylander down to the 2nd line center.

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Old
05-22-2006, 12:58 PM
  #10
Fletch
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Gretz...

so by your logic, no UFA should ever be signed to a contract, unless I guess you can get a guy who scored 40 goals last season for $2 million per, because there's no guarantee clause in his contract regarding goals scored.

Having said that, I think there were other reasons why forwards failed in New York (like the right base of players, playing in the right role, coaching and structure). Heck, last season saw how many UFAs succeeed on this team?

As for Elias himself...that's something that really needs to be thought through. With him on the left side, it has the potential to really hurt Prucha (if he gets the PP time, Prucha will not, and if he's not with Jagr and Straka's back, then Prucha could be playing with a defensive minded forward and go nowhere fast). To me, that's the real reason why not to sign him. He'd be incrementally better, I believe, than what's here. I don't think it's worth hurting a guy like Prucha and would rather re-sign a guy like Straka and have the money left over for a rainy day, or a giant Slovak.

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Old
05-22-2006, 06:11 PM
  #11
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No reason to sign ancient players in a rebuild. NY also needs to address the positions that they need, (D and a Center), first, before going after other players that don't fit into the needs of the team at this time.

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Old
05-22-2006, 06:12 PM
  #12
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I wouldnt mind him for 1 year with a 2nd year a team option, 40 goals and he is a battler sure hes old but around the same age as Rucinksy. Playing with Jagr gives Jaromir someone who can really finish on his line. While he can easily be moved at trade deadline for something if a prospect like prucha comes knocking

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Old
05-22-2006, 06:48 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taz
I wouldnt mind him for 1 year with a 2nd year a team option, 40 goals and he is a battler sure hes old but around the same age as Rucinksy. Playing with Jagr gives Jaromir someone who can really finish on his line. While he can easily be moved at trade deadline for something if a prospect like prucha comes knocking
There's a big difference between a 35 year old and a 40 year old in hockey. Especially when you have a kid under 25 (who is no longer a prospect after scoring 30 goals last season) who would lose out on playing time if the 40 year old was signed. There are other problems that need to be addressed first.

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Old
05-22-2006, 08:54 PM
  #14
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I admire Shanahan more than any other hockey player. Ever.

I DO NOT want Brendan on the Rangers in 2006. Five years ago maybe. Yes, he scored 40 goals this season but with the help of Datsyuk and Zetterberg, to name two. He took Hull's place as the goat on the "Goat and 2 Kids" line. Who would he play with on the Rangers? Shanny is a "King of the one timers". No one on last years team would know a one-timer if it came up and bit them on the ***.

Shan would do nicely to fill in for "Best Looking" Ranger if Strudwick doesn't come back. I think the Rangers would do better to sign Lindros again for strength down the middle where they are really weak. And, Lindros is probably the best looking player in the league.

Brendan should finish his career as Captain of the Red Wings if Stevie retires. He's earned it. If Brendan retires, the Governors should dump that little putz Bettman and make Brendan "Commissioner Shanahan".

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Old
05-22-2006, 10:08 PM
  #15
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I would think about it in August if other things didn't work out and if he would sign cheaply for one year. (more value at the deadline if we end up sucking)

I see what Jorts point is a bit with wanting Roberts and Shanahan. They are one year stop gaps and fill a need and if signed to one year contracts have value if next season turns into what this season should've been.

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Old
05-23-2006, 12:19 PM
  #16
CM Lundqvist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
so by your logic, no UFA should ever be signed to a contract, unless I guess you can get a guy who scored 40 goals last season for $2 million per, because there's no guarantee clause in his contract regarding goals scored.

Having said that, I think there were other reasons why forwards failed in New York (like the right base of players, playing in the right role, coaching and structure). Heck, last season saw how many UFAs succeeed on this team?

As for Elias himself...that's something that really needs to be thought through. With him on the left side, it has the potential to really hurt Prucha (if he gets the PP time, Prucha will not, and if he's not with Jagr and Straka's back, then Prucha could be playing with a defensive minded forward and go nowhere fast). To me, that's the real reason why not to sign him. He'd be incrementally better, I believe, than what's here. I don't think it's worth hurting a guy like Prucha and would rather re-sign a guy like Straka and have the money left over for a rainy day, or a giant Slovak.
No, I think Elias is a gamble because of the system he played in, and I'm not completely sold on him being as good as some people think he is. I understand that there are a lot of reasons why other forwards failed here, but like I said, Elias is a real question mark, and I wouldn't go giving him nearly 7 mill a year when he's 28 years old, when we're rebuilding and retooling. We don't need to go after Elias at that price, we NEED to go after CHARA at that price. There's a difference between needs and wants, you of all people, Fletch should know this about the Rangers and their notorious past of signing past-prime players to "retirement contracts." Why go out and give a huge deal to Elias? It's not the wings that are suffering, it's the defense, and the center pivot that need help. Plus long term contracts are a hassel in the new CBA. We don't need to go giving UNNECESSARY long-term deals out when we're rebuilding. That's why at this point, I'd rather sign Shanahan as a stop-gap because I know that we'll have the young guns ready to come up and produce when the time comes.

If the logic is sign Elias to replace Jagr, then that's fine, but what happens when it becomes a problem with the cap? What happens when we can't deal Jagr at that point in time? We screw ourselves, just like Jersey and Tampa. Let's not do that, let's let them make the dumb mistakes, so we can sit back and laugh at and learn from them. It's called learning the easy way.

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Old
05-23-2006, 12:50 PM
  #17
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To be clear, Gretz...

I'm not advocating signing Elias, but you seemed to have made a blanket statement regarding UFAs in general and not just Elias specifically. I don't have the same Elias concerns as you and believe he would be successful here, but the more I think of it, the more I believe the timing isn't right. So we get to the same place, but differently. I agree 100% that Chara is this team's main need and should be heavily targeted. After Chara, the team still needs a Chara-type, call him Jovo or whomever. I do believe a forward to take some scoring slack off Jagr was needed too, and if Elias were here, he'd look pretty good on a second line (if Straka weren't signed and Prucha moved up, but my preference is to sign Straka) and in a couple seasons if Jags is gone, Elias may still be here. But again, I think this is not the time - next season would present a much clearer picture in that regard.

As for dealing Jagr - whoever is dealt him will be getting him for less than $5 million per season. If he performs at 60-70%, he's still value at $5 million.

Edit: as for Shanny - I don't disagree, however, wouldn't that push Prucha out of the top 6 in all likelihood (again, I assume Straka gets resigned) and thus puts him on a third line which could render him a bit less effective?

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Old
05-23-2006, 01:29 PM
  #18
CM Lundqvist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
I'm not advocating signing Elias, but you seemed to have made a blanket statement regarding UFAs in general and not just Elias specifically. I don't have the same Elias concerns as you and believe he would be successful here, but the more I think of it, the more I believe the timing isn't right. So we get to the same place, but differently. I agree 100% that Chara is this team's main need and should be heavily targeted. After Chara, the team still needs a Chara-type, call him Jovo or whomever. I do believe a forward to take some scoring slack off Jagr was needed too, and if Elias were here, he'd look pretty good on a second line (if Straka weren't signed and Prucha moved up, but my preference is to sign Straka) and in a couple seasons if Jags is gone, Elias may still be here. But again, I think this is not the time - next season would present a much clearer picture in that regard.

As for dealing Jagr - whoever is dealt him will be getting him for less than $5 million per season. If he performs at 60-70%, he's still value at $5 million.

Edit: as for Shanny - I don't disagree, however, wouldn't that push Prucha out of the top 6 in all likelihood (again, I assume Straka gets resigned) and thus puts him on a third line which could render him a bit less effective?
I agree, the timing isn't right, and that's what I was getting at. If we had more cap room, and the time was right, would I go for Elias? You bet I would. I think Elias is a much better leader than Jagr, and is a much more complete player than Jagr, and that's what this team needs.

I don't think it would push Prucha out of the top 6... look at it right now hypothetically bringing Straka back...

Nylander-Prucha-Jagr
Straka-Shanahan-Sykora

This is proving we don't bring Rucinsky and Rucchin back, which we shouldn't. Rucinsky was absolutely USELESS after the knee injury, and Rucchin is old, and if he wants anything close to his previous contract, I'd rather bring up Immonen as the 3rd line center anyway, because I think he's more than ready for it. He does what Rucchin does, and more. He's a more polished Rucchin with less size, if you ask me. What Shanahan would do is push one of the younger guys back though, which we can't do. Another area in which we probably agree is pushing back the young talent, it's inexcusable with the movement we've made in the past 2 years.

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Old
05-23-2006, 01:35 PM
  #19
Fletch
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Under that scenario...

would Straka be centering a line?

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Old
05-24-2006, 03:53 PM
  #20
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I wanted Shanahan back in 96, before he got shipped off to Detroit for Primeau and Coffey.

He's too old now.

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Old
05-24-2006, 09:29 PM
  #21
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even though shanahan can still produce statistically now, i wouldn't be interested in him with the rangers because he's a perimeter scorer. a pretty good shooter still but a perimeter shooter, and what i think the rangers need for their forward group (in addition to more scoring depth in general) is someone who will consistently go to and score around the net.

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