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CBA / Lockout Discussion Thread (Update: player tested, owner approved)

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Old
11-17-2012, 05:02 PM
  #226
IdealisticSniper
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Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
I know I've defended the PA a lot on here, but the NHLPA isn't a small organization. I don't know how the PA lets it's members know things, but getting the word around to ~700 players isn't going to be instantaneous, especially since they don't broadcast it themselves on tv, internets, or whatever.

It only takes one reporter to get his mitts on something and it's on twitter in seconds.

Yeah cause its not like you could possibly just put every players personal email address ( or hell one each player creates specifically for this type of information) in an email group, and simply send a mass email with all of the information that would arrive at their fingertips instantly.

Please. Current technology available, especially to multi millionaires leaves ZERO excuse for every single person not having every single detail almost immediately after Fehr receives it.

The NHLPA is a gong show.

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11-18-2012, 12:31 PM
  #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
Yeah cause its not like you could possibly just put every players personal email address ( or hell one each player creates specifically for this type of information) in an email group, and simply send a mass email with all of the information that would arrive at their fingertips instantly.

Please. Current technology available, especially to multi millionaires leaves ZERO excuse for every single person not having every single detail almost immediately after Fehr receives it.

The NHLPA is a gong show.
No, it's exactly because they can e-mail everyone at once is what makes it so important that they get it absolutely right.

The media can make mistakes and correct themselves without consequence, but if the PA messes up, they risk the players losing faith in the union's abilities.

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11-18-2012, 12:40 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
No, it's exactly because they can e-mail everyone at once is what makes it so important that they get it absolutely right.

The media can make mistakes and correct themselves without consequence, but if the PA messes up, they risk the players losing faith in the union's abilities.
Can't argue that.

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11-18-2012, 03:57 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
No, it's exactly because they can e-mail everyone at once is what makes it so important that they get it absolutely right.

The media can make mistakes and correct themselves without consequence, but if the PA messes up, they risk the players losing faith in the union's abilities.
So they tell them as little information, in complete misinformation, selective information if you will, rather than everything about the proposals as to not make a mistake and lose a united front?

Dont buy it.

Fehr isnt relaying everything because he doesnt want a deal. Hes stalling until the NHL gives up and cancels the season and then he will be going after the cap. Book it. The only way we see hockey this season is if the players catch on to this before the NHL gives up, and force Fehr's hand to make a deal.

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11-18-2012, 05:59 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
So they tell them as little information, in complete misinformation, selective information if you will, rather than everything about the proposals as to not make a mistake and lose a united front?

Dont buy it.

Fehr isnt relaying everything because he doesnt want a deal. Hes stalling until the NHL gives up and cancels the season and then he will be going after the cap. Book it. The only way we see hockey this season is if the players catch on to this before the NHL gives up, and force Fehr's hand to make a deal.
Why would Fehr be carrying out his own agenda? He's not being paid during the lockout and all he needs to do is appease the current membership. He's probably not going to be there for the next CBA anyway, so other than the NHLPA's history with executive directors, what would indicate it's happening now? How does he benefit?

The PA also has a recent history of not being afraid to fire executive directors. I mean, they fired the last guy for getting along with Bettman too well, and they weren't even negotiating.

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11-19-2012, 01:23 PM
  #231
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My state gives me hope.

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11-19-2012, 05:11 PM
  #232
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https://twitter.com/RenLavoieRDS
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Vincent Lecavalier and Martin St-Louis will attend the NHL CBA talks tonight.
https://twitter.com/Russostrib
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In tonight's bargaining session for #NHL along w Bettman/Daly will be Jeremy Jacobs, Ted Leonsis, Murray Edwards & Brian Burke.

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11-19-2012, 06:01 PM
  #233
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Yzerman was suppose to be there, was he not? Strange that he would leave.

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11-19-2012, 06:57 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Ben Dover View Post
Yzerman was suppose to be there, was he not? Strange that he would leave.
https://twitter.com/DarrenDreger
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Steve Yzerman says he will not be involved in todays CBA talks.PA meets internally in roughly an hour. Full mtng will take place after that.
Not sure why he didn't end up going. According to twitter reports he was in attendance at the Lethbridge Hurricanes - Brandon Wheat Kings (WHL) game last night scouting.

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11-20-2012, 07:12 AM
  #235
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There's way too much focus from the media on how much a side has moved, instead of whether there's movement or not.

It becomes a big issue that 'Don said they moved a lot and Bill said they moved a little' and the difference between that is portrayed as what's contentious instead of, y'know, stuff relevant to the completion of the CBA.

Too bad Ted Saskin's reign turned out like it did, as the Bill and Ted jokes would be non-stop.

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11-21-2012, 02:46 PM
  #236
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Short version of NHL/PA meeting today:


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11-22-2012, 03:24 AM
  #237
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http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=410028
Quote:
It appears not all NHL players are in full support of the tactics of NHL Players' Association Executive Director Don Fehr in the current labour talks.

According to Czech newspaper Daily Sport, veteran Washington Capitals defenceman Roman Hamrlik is concerned with the amount of money that is being lost by the players as the lockout continues.

"I am disgusted," Hamrlik told Daily Sport and translated by Roman Jedlicka of TV Nova. "We have to push Fehr to the wall to get the deal. Time is against us. We lost [one-quarter] of the season, it is $425 million. Who will give it back to us? Mr. Fehr?"
Quote:
"If that's his opinion, then he should just stay over there (in the Czech Republic)," Cole told the Gazette.

"For him to come out and say this, it's the most selfish thing I've heard during the lockout. Without a doubt. It's just disappointing. You'd think the veteran guys are the guys who'd take more pride in what other veteran guys sacrificed in the last lockout, how we all benefited from that as a group. Some guys never played again."
Quote:
The 38-year-old Hamrlik was hoping the players would have learned a "lesson from 2004" when they refused an early offer from the league but then "came to an even worse deal" to end the last lockout.

The Czech-native feels that if the season is lost, Fehr should step down as head of the NHLPA.

"There should be voting between players," Hamrlik told Daily Sport. "If half of the players say let's play, then they should sign a new CBA. If there is no season, he should leave and we will find someone new. Time is our enemy."
http://www.tampabay.com/sports/hocke...-apart/1262726
Quote:
"It's disappointing," Lightning wing Marty St. Louis said. "I feel they're trying to bully us and trying to draw a line in the sand.

"I don't know where you go from here. It's very frustrating."
Quote:
"We want to negotiate," St. Louis said. "We came their way again, and nothing. They keep telling us to keep coming. But they're staying where they are, so you end up negotiating against yourself. And that's definitely something we don't want to do.

"I mean, $180 million apart. You divide that by 30 teams over five years, I can't believe that 30 owners don't want to do that."

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11-22-2012, 08:02 AM
  #238
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Hamrlik has a point, though.

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11-22-2012, 11:57 PM
  #239
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I get where Hammer is coming from... twilight of his career, nobody really wants to pay him, but if its as bad as he says it is ****ing talk to Fehr and negotiate.

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11-23-2012, 04:31 AM
  #240
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Originally Posted by Still All In View Post
I get where Hammer is coming from... twilight of his career, nobody really wants to pay him, but if its as bad as he says it is ****ing talk to Fehr and negotiate.
True that. Can't blame the guy for speaking his mind, though. Especially after almost 20 years in the NHL and having faced three lockouts during that time. I'm sure a lot of the other players are glad a veteran spoke up.

And he spoke again:

on Fehr:
Quote:
"I think time is against us and we need to find a solution. I think that it's a fight between two groups that have too much pride. We need to find an agreement - I still support Fehr, but we as players we need to push him a little bit more and get the best deal possible.
on Cole:
Quote:
Hamrlik's remarks drew immediate criticism from Montreal Canadiens forward Erik Cole, who has questioned his stance during this labour standoff.

"Erik Cole has his opinion like everyone else," said Hamrlik. "I'm a little bit disappointed in what he said. What I do know is he has three years left on his contract and I'm sure he got a nice signing bonus this summer, so I don't think he didn't have to sacrifice anything. So good for him, good agent."
on the CBA:
Quote:
"I've talked to the guys in the locker room when we skate in Montreal, I've been in a meeting in Barcelona this summer where we were meeting with Fehr," he expalined. "From my experience at the meeting in Barcelona, they said we have everything set up. I have a proposal for the owners, we should be okay, blah blah, blah...but nothing happened. I'm just disappointed - I know it's a really tough business, it's not just me losing money. Everybody's losing money - the sooner we figure it out, the better for everybody."
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=410069

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11-23-2012, 04:31 PM
  #241
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If there's anything I've learned over the last 6 months in the elections, is don't believe a damn thing anyone says about what's going on behind closed doors especially with what's reported by the media. It's all bullcrap.

The NHL is a business trying to make as much money as possible and Fehr and the NHLPA are only thinking about themselves. Fehr ruined baseball and I don't see any reason to believe he wouldn't do the same to hockey. I personally won't care until football season is over but if they don't get their heads out of their butts by mid-December, than they should cancel it period. When they finally come to a resolution, we'll all look back and see what a colossal waste of time and money it's become. Just MO.

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11-23-2012, 05:16 PM
  #242
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I imagine any future NHL ice cream socials will be made awkward by Dave Bolland's re-tweet about Gary Bettman's living status.

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11-23-2012, 05:36 PM
  #243
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"We want to negotiate," St. Louis said. "We came their way again, and nothing. They keep telling us to keep coming. But they're staying where they are, so you end up negotiating against yourself. And that's definitely something we don't want to do.

"I mean, $180 million apart. You divide that by 30 teams over five years, I can't believe that 30 owners don't want to do that."
Sorry Marty but that can be spun another way too. $180 million apart. Divide that by the what 700+players. Thats only $250K per player over 5 years. 50K a year per player. I cant believe the players dont want to do that.

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11-23-2012, 05:45 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
Sorry Marty but that can be spun another way too. $180 million apart. Divide that by the what 700+players. Thats only $250K per player over 5 years. 50K a year per player. I cant believe the players dont want to do that.
You can't believe that someone wouldn't want to make less money for doing the same job?

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11-23-2012, 05:49 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
You can't believe that someone wouldn't want to make less money for doing the same job?
Well technically, any amount of money would be more than what they are making now

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11-24-2012, 10:15 AM
  #246
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Glad the players have a principle to fight for, cause this is costing them huge now.

http://www.lockoutclock.com/

League wide, players have lost $443,522,000. TBL specific $16,532,000 and counting. Keep up the good fight boys!

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11-24-2012, 07:04 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by BucLight View Post
If there's anything I've learned over the last 6 months in the elections, is don't believe a damn thing anyone says about what's going on behind closed doors especially with what's reported by the media. It's all bullcrap.

The NHL is a business trying to make as much money as possible and Fehr and the NHLPA are only thinking about themselves. Fehr ruined baseball and I don't see any reason to believe he wouldn't do the same to hockey. I personally won't care until football season is over but if they don't get their heads out of their butts by mid-December, than they should cancel it period. When they finally come to a resolution, we'll all look back and see what a colossal waste of time and money it's become. Just MO.
If by ruined baseball you mean he created a complex but highly functional financial system that lets all teams compete with adequate revenue sharing and compensatory draft picks for teams who can't throw 20m at a player for every slot on the field, then sure, he truly ruined baseball.

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11-24-2012, 08:21 PM
  #248
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Originally Posted by Still All In View Post
If by ruined baseball you mean he created a complex but highly functional financial system that lets all teams compete with adequate revenue sharing and compensatory draft picks for teams who can't throw 20m at a player for every slot on the field, then sure, he truly ruined baseball.
Yes I would say creating a league that, barring miracle Cinderella type runs, is 75% farm team and 25% actual teams that have a chance to win is a ruined league. There is zero parity and the only thing the compensatory picks does is allow teams to develop more players faster for the teams that want to throw the millions at them once they are fully developed and coincidentally up for a UFA contract.

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11-25-2012, 10:32 AM
  #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
Yes I would say creating a league that, barring miracle Cinderella type runs, is 75% farm team and 25% actual teams that have a chance to win is a ruined league. There is zero parity and the only thing the compensatory picks does is allow teams to develop more players faster for the teams that want to throw the millions at them once they are fully developed and coincidentally up for a UFA contract.
It's not like the NHL is much better. We have the Oilers.

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11-26-2012, 05:47 PM
  #250
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You know how Bettman is going to survive this lockout?

If the league decertifies, the PA is not guaranteed to win anything in court, and if they do, Bettman potentially has an escapegoat in the legal system.


Last edited by Felonious Python: 11-26-2012 at 05:55 PM.
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