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Offseason Madness the 7th: Jose Reyes edition

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Old
11-24-2012, 05:16 PM
  #351
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Well I believe he was a bench coach for Tom Kelly, so...

Not certain if he'd join the Jays though, but it could be a possibility.
Oh, didn't know that and I just read into it. He went straight to bench coach it seems, and he stayed there for three years, he was considered the leading candidate for the Twins manager position but declined because the Twins were being targeted for potential contraction.

That proves he's good, I think he might be open to join the Jays, especially after his great tenure in Toronto. But, we'd need him as a first/third base coach which unfortunately makes it even less likely than it already was.

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11-24-2012, 05:35 PM
  #352
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Well Gibby has two years + option, while D has a 3 year contract as the bench coach, so if Gibbons has low to moderate success they could just decline the option and go with Hale for a year and see if he's good at managing the team.
where is this about D 3 year contract.?

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11-24-2012, 05:38 PM
  #353
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where is this about D 3 year contract.?

The Toronto Blue Jays will hire DeMarlo Hale as their bench coach, according to two industry sources. One source said Hale could receive a three-year contract.

http://www.masnsports.com/school_of_...nch-coach.html

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11-24-2012, 05:47 PM
  #354
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where is this about D 3 year contract.?
Yeah I just read reports on it. I'm not sure if the contract has been confirmed yet.

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11-24-2012, 05:53 PM
  #355
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Yeah I just read reports on it. I'm not sure if the contract has been confirmed yet.
We probably won't ever have it confirmed... AA doesn't like that stuff released.

AA was pissed when Farrell told the media about his contract last year... although Gibbons' deal did get released.

I have a hard time believing its 3. More likely 2+1 same as Gibbons.

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11-24-2012, 07:06 PM
  #356
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Why bother?
Some continuity in coaching staff is not necessarily a bad thing to provide the new manager and staff with insights into what the development program had been and how different players responded.

Also (and perhaps more importantly), it's been suggested that Murphy could claim some degree of credit for the success of Bautista and Encarnacion as "grip and rip" pull hitters. I for one am not so convinced, as in both cases (IIRC) the involvement of other coaches outside of the Jays staff (e.g. Winter league, etc.) would appear to have had more of an impact. But if there's anything to it at all - or for that matter if those two guys just like working with Murphy - then that's reason enough to want to keep him around in some capacity. But I agree I don't want him kept on as the primary hitting coach, so a move back to 1B coach makes sense.

May all be moot - Anthopolous and Gibbons will have their own insights and preferences in terms of staff. With Hale coming, for example, I wonder if Acta would still be someone they approached to be 3B coach - and whether he'd take it or sit out for a year in the hopes of landing another managing gig somewhere. They might instead be looking for someone with whom they have a history of a good working relationship and a shared philosophy on running a team.

I guess we'll see soon enough.

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11-24-2012, 07:52 PM
  #357
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Some continuity in coaching staff is not necessarily a bad thing to provide the new manager and staff with insights into what the development program had been and how different players responded.

Also (and perhaps more importantly), it's been suggested that Murphy could claim some degree of credit for the success of Bautista and Encarnacion as "grip and rip" pull hitters. I for one am not so convinced, as in both cases (IIRC) the involvement of other coaches outside of the Jays staff (e.g. Winter league, etc.) would appear to have had more of an impact. But if there's anything to it at all - or for that matter if those two guys just like working with Murphy - then that's reason enough to want to keep him around in some capacity. But I agree I don't want him kept on as the primary hitting coach, so a move back to 1B coach makes sense.

May all be moot - Anthopolous and Gibbons will have their own insights and preferences in terms of staff. With Hale coming, for example, I wonder if Acta would still be someone they approached to be 3B coach - and whether he'd take it or sit out for a year in the hopes of landing another managing gig somewhere. They might instead be looking for someone with whom they have a history of a good working relationship and a shared philosophy on running a team.

I guess we'll see soon enough.
FWIW, Buck also had his best year in his 1 year with the Jays and apparently in no small part because of Murphy.

I still want to keep the guy away from most of the other hitters, but he has his handful of successes.

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11-24-2012, 08:46 PM
  #358
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http://dplbaseball.com/featured-post...-the-bluejays/


Michael Delacruz plays in the DPL Santiago circuit and trains with Juan “Kiko” Pena. Delacruz was a late add on to the DPL-POWER SHOWCASE roster. In reality, he was brought from Santiago as a back up catcher and/or bullpen guy. The 5’11, 170lb, 19 year old was given the opportunity behind the dish and he made the most it. He showed solid receiving and blocking abilities, consistent accuracy when throwing to the bag and solid average to plus arm strength. Michael is a left handed hitter with bat speed and surprising power.

Delacruz showed ability worthy of his opportunity to participate in the tournament. More than just being a participant; he closed the week being selected to the All-Star Game on the final day of tournament, eventually hitting a HR blast to right center field and agreed to terms with the Toronto Bluejays by the end of the game.


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11-24-2012, 09:49 PM
  #359
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FWIW, Buck also had his best year in his 1 year with the Jays and apparently in no small part because of Murphy.

I still want to keep the guy away from most of the other hitters, but he has his handful of successes.
Murphy seems to do generally fantastic work with the power guys, but is terrible with the contact hitters.

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Old
11-24-2012, 09:58 PM
  #360
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end this dumb american thxgiving holiday so AA can make some more trades

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11-24-2012, 10:00 PM
  #361
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end this dumb american thxgiving holiday so AA can make some more trades
Doubt we see more trades before the FA dust settles.

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11-24-2012, 10:09 PM
  #362
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end this dumb american thxgiving holiday so AA can make some more trades
Still very early in the offseason. We got plenty of time for AA to make trades.

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11-24-2012, 10:11 PM
  #363
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end this dumb american thxgiving holiday so AA can make some more trades
I think he would be better off waiting a while until a bunch of FA sign and then look to find yourselves some bargain. There are always guys that end up being undervalued.

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11-24-2012, 10:13 PM
  #364
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I think he would be better off waiting a while until a bunch of FA sign and then look to find yourselves some bargain. There are always guys that end up being undervalued.
Or become expendable once that team signs someone through FA. Lots of time to wheel and deal.

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11-24-2012, 10:38 PM
  #365
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Murphy seems to do generally fantastic work with the power guys, but is terrible with the contact hitters.
I'm not sure it's quite that straightforward. Buck's career high HR (with the Jays) is only 20. Which is good in terms of power out of a catcher, but isn't quite to the standard at which we would start calling a guy a power hitter in general.

It's more like Murphy's approach is a double-edged sword that hinges on plate discipline and strike zone awareness. If you're good at reading the zone and laying off bad pitches, it gives you an opportunity to crush the ball when the opportunity arises. So if you're a guy like Encarnacion or Bautista, both of whom are very good at not chasing, taking a walk when offered, and not striking out, it turns you into a mistake-pitch hammering monster. Unfortunately the flip side is that if you're a hacker like Arencibia, it only makes the issue worse as you keep fishing for crush-able pitches and come up empty.

As for Buck, when I'm looking more at his numbers, it paints a kind of interesting picture. He was more of a hacker in his Blue Jays year than he was the rest of his career. He took far fewer walks than any other year, had a strikeout rate that was higher than his average, and generally swung at more pitches than he usually does while his contact #s were comfortably in the middle of his career range. but he put up a BA/OBP/OPS set that was career highs across the board by a fairly significant margin. And this was tied to a significantly outlying BABIP as well (30 points better than his next best season and 60 higher than his career average)

I don't doubt that the Murphy Grip-it-and-rip-it approach was responsible for his power spike and corresponding swing rate increases, but chances are that his contact #s and overall success in 2010 were a fluke season and that even back in the Blue Jays fold we probably won't see that John Buck again.

So did I just argue myself out of my own initial point (that Murphy made Buck better)? Kinda, . but the evidence still points to what I wanted originally to say about Murphy: that his approach leads to increased success mostly if you have the plate discipline and zone awareness to go along with HR power. If you do, it turns you into a better power hitter without much sacrifice on the rest of your numbers. If you don't, it turns you into a free swinging K machine (FWIW, John Buck led the 2010 Jays in K% from anyone with 100 plate appearances or more) whose increased power numbers may not always offset the fact that you don't provide a whole lot else if you're not hitting it out of the park.

and, like you said, it tends to work against contact hitters too. Brett Lawrie isn't necessarily just a contact hitter. He has solid power for a 3B. But he also needs to be reigned in so that he can get good pitches to hit. You look at his admittedly small-sample-size 2011 #s vs 2012, and the most glaring thing was that he was a lot more of a free swinger. He chased a lot more pitches out of the zone and paid for it.

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11-24-2012, 11:04 PM
  #366
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Im willing to bet the best FA pitcher signing will be Haren.

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11-24-2012, 11:43 PM
  #367
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Im willing to bet the best FA pitcher signing will be Haren.
Even if he's healthy, I don't see him outperforming Grienke.

If you're talking about value, then a healthy Harren will be the best one.

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11-24-2012, 11:45 PM
  #368
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Even if he's healthy, I don't see him outperforming Grienke.

If you're talking about value, then a healthy Harren will be the best one.
Yeah talking about value lol. Obviously very little chance he out performs Greinke, but I'd rather buy low on him for 1-2 years than give a massive contract to Greinke.

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11-24-2012, 11:46 PM
  #369
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FWIW, Buck also had his best year in his 1 year with the Jays and apparently in no small part because of Murphy.

I still want to keep the guy away from most of the other hitters, but he has his handful of successes.
Can't that be said about every hitting coach? I mean, they are hitting coaches for a reason.. yes? We just need one that can work with all the guys. The fact you say you want to keep him away is a pretty good sign.. IMO anyways..

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11-25-2012, 12:21 AM
  #370
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I'm not sure it's quite that straightforward. Buck's career high HR (with the Jays) is only 20. Which is good in terms of power out of a catcher, but isn't quite to the standard at which we would start calling a guy a power hitter in general.

It's more like Murphy's approach is a double-edged sword that hinges on plate discipline and strike zone awareness. If you're good at reading the zone and laying off bad pitches, it gives you an opportunity to crush the ball when the opportunity arises. So if you're a guy like Encarnacion or Bautista, both of whom are very good at not chasing, taking a walk when offered, and not striking out, it turns you into a mistake-pitch hammering monster. Unfortunately the flip side is that if you're a hacker like Arencibia, it only makes the issue worse as you keep fishing for crush-able pitches and come up empty.

As for Buck, when I'm looking more at his numbers, it paints a kind of interesting picture. He was more of a hacker in his Blue Jays year than he was the rest of his career. He took far fewer walks than any other year, had a strikeout rate that was higher than his average, and generally swung at more pitches than he usually does while his contact #s were comfortably in the middle of his career range. but he put up a BA/OBP/OPS set that was career highs across the board by a fairly significant margin. And this was tied to a significantly outlying BABIP as well (30 points better than his next best season and 60 higher than his career average)

I don't doubt that the Murphy Grip-it-and-rip-it approach was responsible for his power spike and corresponding swing rate increases, but chances are that his contact #s and overall success in 2010 were a fluke season and that even back in the Blue Jays fold we probably won't see that John Buck again.

So did I just argue myself out of my own initial point (that Murphy made Buck better)? Kinda, . but the evidence still points to what I wanted originally to say about Murphy: that his approach leads to increased success mostly if you have the plate discipline and zone awareness to go along with HR power. If you do, it turns you into a better power hitter without much sacrifice on the rest of your numbers. If you don't, it turns you into a free swinging K machine (FWIW, John Buck led the 2010 Jays in K% from anyone with 100 plate appearances or more) whose increased power numbers may not always offset the fact that you don't provide a whole lot else if you're not hitting it out of the park.

and, like you said, it tends to work against contact hitters too. Brett Lawrie isn't necessarily just a contact hitter. He has solid power for a 3B. But he also needs to be reigned in so that he can get good pitches to hit. You look at his admittedly small-sample-size 2011 #s vs 2012, and the most glaring thing was that he was a lot more of a free swinger. He chased a lot more pitches out of the zone and paid for it.
Just for fun:

Buck stats against lefties in his 2010 season with the Jays: .409/.411/.705/1.116... he had a whopping 1 walk against lefties and a BABIP of .500. I kinda wonder if the Marlines looked into that before giving him that contract.

He's got like an OPS of .575 the past two seasons against lefties. I dunno, maybe you hope he finds a middle ground (maybe closer to his career rate of .740?) and he might be able to put together a decent season.

Also, its kinda funny he's walked at 3.7% of the time as a Jay (by far his lowest %) but he's walked at 10.2% and 12.3% as a Marlin... about the only thing he's done well. Let's hope he has some BABIP luck and starts hitting lefties again... he might be able to put together a good season.

As for the hitting coaches, I would like to see them go with two hitting coaches. I mean why not? Guys will get to spend more time with a hitting than they usually would if it was just one.

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11-25-2012, 12:33 AM
  #371
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Can't that be said about every hitting coach? I mean, they are hitting coaches for a reason.. yes? We just need one that can work with all the guys. The fact you say you want to keep him away is a pretty good sign.. IMO anyways..
The thing with Murphy as opposed to other coaches is that his successes are so significant. while his failures are so jarring. Most hitting coaches (or at least the good ones) aren't quite so dramatically different in how players react to their teachings. The trouble is that even though Murphy hasn't gotten the best out of so many Jays players, the impressiveness of the work he's done with Bautista and Encarnacion would almost make it worth him being around just to keep them on track even if he doesn't have anything to do with mentoring the others.

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11-25-2012, 01:02 AM
  #372
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Has there been any word on what's going to happen with Morneau? Is Minnesota still looking to dump him? If so, I really hope AA is in on that. He'd look great in our #5 spot and would be a good leader on this team. We need a left handed bat who, although he isn't what he once was, can be more reliable than Lind and would bring fans to the ballpark.

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11-25-2012, 01:13 AM
  #373
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Has there been any word on what's going to happen with Morneau? Is Minnesota still looking to dump him? If so, I really hope AA is in on that. He'd look great in our #5 spot and would be a good leader on this team. We need a left handed bat who, although he isn't what he once was, can be more reliable than Lind and would bring fans to the ballpark.
Could it be reasonable to expect Lind + for Morneau?

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11-25-2012, 01:14 AM
  #374
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Has there been any word on what's going to happen with Morneau? Is Minnesota still looking to dump him? If so, I really hope AA is in on that. He'd look great in our #5 spot and would be a good leader on this team. We need a left handed bat who, although he isn't what he once was, can be more reliable than Lind and would bring fans to the ballpark.
morneau at this point is a marginal upgrade on lind (better against righties, less crappy against lefties) but at 10M more for the year.


I doubt rogers/AA is willing to spend an extra 10M for that difference.

If minnesota was willing to throw in something like 3-5M, so minnesota saves 5-7M and toronto adds 5-7M to payroll, i could see it though.

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Could it be reasonable to expect Lind + for Morneau?
given the price difference (morneau's contract is 3x lind's, 2x+ if you include lind's 2M 2014 buyout), i wouldnt add to get morneau.

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11-25-2012, 01:18 AM
  #375
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given the price difference (morneau's contract is 3x lind's, 2x+ if you include lind's 2M 2014 buyout), i wouldnt add to get morneau.
I'd add Buck. With the difference in salary I would almost insist on it.

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