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Old
11-24-2012, 07:19 PM
  #851
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Counter

MacArthur + Colbourne + Kadri + 1st (top 10 protected)

For

Luongo + Raymond
Mac>Raymond (Raymond has regressed the last 3yrs in a row)

Can't see Burke dealing Colborne + Kadri + 1st for Luongo. Too much of an overpayment.

To be honest. I can't see many teams offering a top prospect and a 1st for Luongo. My initial offer had 2 and the 1st, now I'm rethinking it all.


MacArthur
Kadri/Colborne
Percy/1st(top ten protected)

for

Raymond
Luongo

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11-24-2012, 07:31 PM
  #852
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Mac>Raymond (Raymond has regressed the last 3yrs in a row)

Can't see Burke dealing Colborne + Kadri + 1st for Luongo. Too much of an overpayment.

To be honest. I can't see many teams offering a top prospect and a 1st for Luongo. My initial offer had 2 and the 1st, now I'm rethinking it all.


MacArthur
Kadri/Colborne
Percy/1st(top ten protected)

for

Raymond
Luongo
Colbourne and Kadri are not top prospects anymore. Both are 22, in the last year of their ELC, and have not been able to crack NHL roster. There is a chance neither of these guys turn out. MaCarthur and Raymond are a wash and it almost makes more sense to just take both out of deal. Definitely no to this offer. What I suggested is a clear quantity for quality trade. The team getting the star player almost always wins. Anyways whatever, but if you are not going to give up any quality roster players them you need to give more futures. It's give and take. Vancouver is filling your biggest need, are you filling Vancouvers biggest need?


Last edited by Numbers: 11-24-2012 at 07:41 PM.
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Old
11-24-2012, 07:44 PM
  #853
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Colbourne and Kadri are not top prospects anymore. Both are 22, in the last year of their ELC, and have not been able to crack NHL roster. There is a chance neither of these guys turn out. MaCarthur and Raymond are a wash and it almost makes sense to just take both out of deal. Definitely no to this offer. What I suggested is a clear quantity for quality trade. The team getting the star player almost always wins. Anyways whatever, but if you are not going to give up any quality roster players them you need to give more futures. It's give and take. Vancouver is filling your biggest need, are you filling Vancouvers biggest need?
IMO our biggest need is a #1 centerman. Our goaltending may very well pan out. Reimer is a quality goalie. I'm all for giving him another chance.

With that being said, no sense trading a number of great assets for a player with a horrific contract. That cap hit of 5.3 until he's 42 is just terrible. No team will deal you what you think he may be worth. You can blame your GM for that one.

I'm always up for counter offers of course and intelligent conversation between passionate fans.


Last edited by DougGilmour93: 11-24-2012 at 08:18 PM.
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11-24-2012, 07:55 PM
  #854
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
IMO our biggest need is a #1 centerman. Our goaltending may very well pan out. Reimer is a quality goalie. I'm all for giving him another chance.

With that being said, no sense trading a number of great assets for a player with a horrific contract. That cap hit of 5.3 until he's 42 is just terrible. No team will deal you what you think he may be worth. You can blame your GM for that one.

I'm always up for counter offers of course and intelligent conversatiojn between passionate fans.
Just curious why do you consider Reimer is a quality goalie? He has had one good half of a season and one bad half of a season. There still is not a big enough sample size to determine this. I don't think any of the assets I listed are great other than maybe the 1st. But the 1st is even protected. Why is a 5.3 mil cap hit till 42 so bad? By the time he is 38 the cap could be over 80 million. If anything his cap hit is depreciating over time. Retirement should not be an issue because we have seen what CBA talks have suggested. And who would you replace Luongo with in the future? Probably a young goalie. Young goalie has small cap hit and solid mentor. With appreciating cap we could see quality backup making 2-3 million in the future. 5.3 just does not seem like very much at all.


Last edited by Numbers: 11-24-2012 at 08:03 PM.
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Old
11-24-2012, 08:18 PM
  #855
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Just curious why do you consider Reimer is a quality goalie? He has had one good half of a season and one bad half of a season. There still is not a big enough sample size to determine this. I don't think any of the assets I listed are great other than maybe the 1st. But the 1st is even protected. Why is a 5.3 mil cap hit till 42 so bad? By the time he is 38 the cap could be over 80 million. If anything his cap hit is depreciating over time. Retirement should not be an issue because we have seen what CBA talks have suggested. And who would you replace Luongo with in the future? Probably a young goalie. Young goalie has small cap hit and solid mentor. With appreciating cap we could see quality backup making 2-3 million in the future. 5.3 just does not seem like very much at all.
I think I'd rather spend our assets and get another goalie on a shorter contract. One we're not married to. lol. 5.3 million would be terrible money to spend on an aging declining goalie. But that's just me. Vancouver is definetly entitled to keep him or deal him elsewhere. He's not the be all end all of goalies for Toronto.

Other goalies we could potentially go after;

Anahiem's Hiller
Calgary's Kiprusoff
Minnesota's Backstrom
New York Islander's Nabokov
St.Louis's Halak

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11-24-2012, 08:20 PM
  #856
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
I think I'd rather spend our assets and get another goalie on a shorter contract. One we're not married to. lol. 5.3 million would be terrible money to spend on an aging declining goalie. But that's just me. Vancouver is definetly entitled to keep him or deal him elsewhere. He's not the be all end all of goalies for Toronto.

Other goalies we could potentially go after;

Anahiem's Hiller
Calgary's Kiprusoff
Minnesota's Backstrom
New York Islander's Nabokov
St.Louis's Halak
That fair you could go after alternatives, but it does not look like any of these goalies on your list are available.

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11-24-2012, 08:26 PM
  #857
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That fair you could go after alternatives, but it does not look like any of these goalies on your list are available.
You never know...

Nabokov was available last year at one point.

Backstrom might be available with the emergence of Hackett, not to mention the play of the recently resigned Harding.

Calgary might finally start their rebuild and deal off Kipper.

St. Louis could deal Halak if Elliott can continue his stellar play.

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11-24-2012, 08:39 PM
  #858
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
You never know...

Nabokov was available last year at one point.

Backstrom might be available with the emergence of Hackett, not to mention the play of the recently resigned Harding.

Calgary might finally start their rebuild and deal off Kipper.

St. Louis could deal Halak if Elliott can continue his stellar play.
Nabokov is islander starting goalie, Dipietro is hurt again why would Snow want to risk his job further. And why would Toronto want Nabokov, when they could have picked up Vokoun for nothing and is much better at this point.

Minnesota spent nearly 200 million on 2 players in offseason. They want to compete now, why trade your starting goalie with playoff experience. Harding and Hackett have no playoff experience. This would make no sense to the team or ownership to make this move.

Who will replace Kipper in Calgary? They went out and signed Hudler and Wideman to pretty big contracts, does this look like a team looking to rebuild? Calgary would need someone to replace Kipper and unless you consider sending Reimer I'm not sure who that will be. If you send Reimer then what do you have after Kipper in a year or two?

Elliot has had one good half of a season over his entire career. Halak is St. Louis starting goalie, Elliot is the backup. How much time do you think it would take for St. Louis to have the confidence to move Halak? 1 season, 2 seasons of good play from Elliot. Sure does not look anything in the short term. How much do you really trust Halak at this point, sure looks like a potential Toskala do over.

After analyzing these options I'm not sure how any of them seem feasible for next season. Do you think Burke will bet is job on a "you never know" option?

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11-24-2012, 08:46 PM
  #859
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Nabokov is islander starting goalie, Dipietro is hurt again why would Snow want to risk his job further. And why would Toronto want Nabokov, when they could have picked up Vokoun for nothing and is much better at this point.

Minnesota spent nearly 200 million on 2 players in offseason. They want to compete now, why trade your starting goalie with playoff experience. Harding and Hackett have no playoff experience. This would make no sense to the team or ownership to make this move.

Who will replace Kipper in Calgary? They went out and signed Hudler and Wideman to pretty big contracts, does this look like a team looking to rebuild? Calgary would need someone to replace Kipper and unless you consider sending Reimer I'm not sure who that will be. If you send Reimer then what do you have after Kipper in a year or two?

Elliot has had one good half of a season over his entire career. Halak is St. Louis starting goalie, Elliot is the backup. How much time do you think it would take for St. Louis to have the confidence to move Halak? 1 season, 2 seasons of good play from Elliot. Sure does not look anything in the short term. How much do you really trust Halak at this point, sure looks like a potential Toskala do over.

After analyzing these options I'm not sure how any of them seem feasible for next season. Do you think Burke will bet is job on a "you never know" option?
You make some great points. I don't expect Burke to get another goalie right away. I believe he'll give Reimer another opportunity (unless he can get a steal of a dealbefore the season starts)

Things happen during the season, Ellliott might go on a tear and make Halak expendable??? Calgary may crap the bed and start dealing assets??? Backstrom could have a cold start to the season and Harding could take the reigns???

Alot could happen.

You seem to be under the impression that Luongo is our only option. Sorry, but he's not. Not to say that a deal couldn't be consumated, but Burke won't bend over for MG.

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11-24-2012, 08:49 PM
  #860
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
You make some great points. I don't expect Burke to get another goalie right away. I believe he'll give Reimer another opportunity (unless he can get a steal of a dealbefore the season starts)

Things happen during the season, Ellliott might go on a tear and make Halak expendable??? Calgary may crap the bed and start dealing assets??? Backstrom could have a cold start to the season and Harding could take the reigns???

Alot could happen.
I think that I answered why what you say here does not seem realistic. The only option from what you list here is sticking with Reimer. If its a shortened season how much time do you really think Burke has with Reimer? Every win/loss has a greater magnitude/risk. Makes sticking with Reimer even riskier.

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11-24-2012, 08:53 PM
  #861
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I think that I answered why what you say here does not seem realistic. The only option from what you list here is sticking with Reimer. If its a shortened season how much time do you really think Burke has with Reimer? Every win/loss has a greater magnitude/risk. Makes sticking with Reimer even riskier.
Like I stated earlier, I'd rather go with Reimer (as I think hes capable) than over paying for a goalie we will all regret acquiring in 5 years. He'll no doubt become our scape-goat in a number of years.

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11-24-2012, 08:55 PM
  #862
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
You make some great points. I don't expect Burke to get another goalie right away. I believe he'll give Reimer another opportunity (unless he can get a steal of a dealbefore the season starts)

Things happen during the season, Ellliott might go on a tear and make Halak expendable??? Calgary may crap the bed and start dealing assets??? Backstrom could have a cold start to the season and Harding could take the reigns???

Alot could happen.

You seem to be under the impression that Luongo is our only option. Sorry, but he's not. Not to say that a deal couldn't be consumated, but Burke won't bend over for MG.
Even if these things do happen, GM's usually don't make knee-jerk reactions like you're suggesting. The only one that could make sense is Kipper, but Calgary barely has an NHL quality backup, let alone someone who could start for them if a deal was consummated.

I really think your only options are sticking with Reimer, or trading for Lu. I guess Bernier might be available too, but I don't know why Burke would want another young, unproven guy.

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11-24-2012, 08:55 PM
  #863
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Kadri is a top 6 forward and would be playing for the Leafs right now if it weren't for the lockout. Colborne is a #3 centre in the NHL which is something Vancouver needs, unless they want Bozak in a deal.

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11-24-2012, 08:57 PM
  #864
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Kadri is a top 6 forward and would be playing for the Leafs right now if it weren't for the lockout. Colborne is a #3 centre in the NHL which is something Vancouver needs, unless they want Bozak in a deal.
Based on what? I can see the Kadri thing, but Colborne has shown nothing to indicate he's a capable third line center in the NHL at this point.

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11-24-2012, 08:57 PM
  #865
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Like I stated earlier, I'd rather go with Reimer (as I think hes capable) than over paying for a goalie we will all regret acquiring in 5 years. He'll no doubt become our scape-goat in a number of years.
Why with an escalating cap, his cap hit will be less proportionately. How much do you think quality backups will get paid by then? Could be a 1-2 million difference with Luongo. Luongo also has mentor value and most likely will be at worst 1b starter by the time he retires. Just does not seem that risky or taxing on cap 5 years from now, especially when you consider the opportunity cost of backups in the future.

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11-24-2012, 09:00 PM
  #866
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Kadri is a top 6 forward and would be playing for the Leafs right now if it weren't for the lockout. Colborne is a #3 centre in the NHL which is something Vancouver needs, unless they want Bozak in a deal.
Not sure where you get this information. I just checked Kadri and Colbourne stats last year and they sure didn't explain anything you just suggested. Please explain?

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11-24-2012, 09:04 PM
  #867
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Based on what? I can see the Kadri thing, but Colborne has shown nothing to indicate he's a capable third line center in the NHL at this point.
And how much time have you seen Colborne play? In the limited time he's played in the NHL, he has 6 points in 11 games. He also had to battle a wrist injury last year which hindered his game in the AHL.

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11-24-2012, 09:09 PM
  #868
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And how much time have you seen Colborne play? In the limited time he's played in the NHL, he has 6 points in 11 games. He also had to battle a wrist injury last year which hindered his game in the AHL.
What's his excuse this year?

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11-24-2012, 09:22 PM
  #869
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I should have read the first page of this thread and realized Canucks fans aren't serious in trading Luongo.

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11-24-2012, 09:25 PM
  #870
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I should have read the first page of this thread and realized Canucks fans aren't serious in trading Luongo.
It was a legitimate question. He's not playing like a 3rd line center in the AHL this year, what makes you think he could play like one in the NHL? Sorry if I offended you

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11-24-2012, 09:29 PM
  #871
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Kadri is a top 6 forward and would be playing for the Leafs right now if it weren't for the lockout. Colborne is a #3 centre in the NHL which is something Vancouver needs, unless they want Bozak in a deal.
Colborne is a crap 3c in the ahl.

Not sure why people keep touting this guy. He plays like he's 5'7"

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11-24-2012, 09:33 PM
  #872
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I should have read the first page of this thread and realized Canucks fans aren't serious in trading Luongo.
Well management feels confident in trading Luongo, but they aren't not trading a quality number 1 goaltender for expendable scraps from a bottom 5 team.
We are looking to make a hockey deal, where two teams come to an agreement to use their assets to fill roster holes. Seeing as Toronto was 2nd WORST in the league for Goals Against it only makes sense the Leafs would be interesting in acquiring a proven goalie with a playoff record.

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11-24-2012, 09:37 PM
  #873
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Why with an escalating cap, his cap hit will be less proportionately. How much do you think quality backups will get paid by then? Could be a 1-2 million difference with Luongo. Luongo also has mentor value and most likely will be at worst 1b starter by the time he retires. Just does not seem that risky or taxing on cap 5 years from now, especially when you consider the opportunity cost of backups in the future.
We can't predict what will come from the new CBA. Whose to say what the new ceiling will be? Too much uncertainty. Paying 5+ million for a back up is never a good thing. Never.

Whose to say Luongo would make a good mentor?

Anyways, how about you guys keep him than? Toronto will not overpay. I suggest a 1st + top prospect for a player who's redundant on your team. If your not interested, fine. We'll look elsewhere or look from within. I mean not disrespect.

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11-24-2012, 09:38 PM
  #874
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Can you guys even fathom the fact that one day, this will be settled once and for all? How many millions of hours have people wasted speculating this subject?

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11-24-2012, 09:39 PM
  #875
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Well management feels confident in trading Luongo, but they aren't not trading a quality number 1 goaltender for expendable scraps from a bottom 5 team.
We are looking to make a hockey deal, where two teams come to an agreement to use their assets to fill roster holes. Seeing as Toronto was 2nd WORST in the league for Goals Against it only makes sense the Leafs would be interesting in acquiring a proven goalie with a playoff record.
That doesn't mean we don't have good offensive players or can be used as a farm system. Reading the first thread people are asking for Rielly/Gardiner/1st round picks and bashing our goalie because he's inexperienced. It's clear Canucks fans can't discuss a trade without resorting to bad mouthing other fans players.

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