HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Washington Post: Owners shouldn’t underestimate the Fehr factor

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-24-2012, 10:12 PM
  #51
pepty
Registered User
 
pepty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 10,120
vCash: 492
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
... his tweet's confusing (if I lived in Chicago in the 20's, knew Capone, got a Parking Ticket, Damn Straight Id ask Al to look after it for me so really, what does that even mean?) nor is it very creative. Mines a lot better, you dont need to outsource & import trash, go off hfboard's, wind up disappointed.
Well you know since the thread was about his article i found his more pertinent but I also found it more interesting despite his lack of stampeding warriors etc., sorry about that.

pepty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2012, 10:34 PM
  #52
Crumblin Erb Brooks
Registered User
 
Crumblin Erb Brooks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Grenyarnia
Country: United States
Posts: 2,980
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAX View Post
But the point is a CBA is really to make a playing field as close to fair as possible, and yes owners do have to be protected from one another because they are competing against one another and trying to get an edge to make their team better.
The point of a CBA is to negotiate a fair deal between workers and employer, not necessarily to create a fair playing field or league with parity. A CBA (at least, in sports) often includes stipulations that bring more of a competitive balance to the league (draft, cap, etc), but it is hardly the point of it.

Crumblin Erb Brooks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2012, 10:39 PM
  #53
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Morocco
Country: Morocco
Posts: 22,047
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepty View Post
There are a lot of posters here who think Fehr is fabulous and dong everything possible for the players. However there are some that are not of that opinion.
... the vast majority is quite clearly pro-NHL. I dont have a problem with that, provided opinion & speculation is presented civilly, something to wit you personally ascribe, your posts always interesting to read. Im pro-player of course, however I do completely accept that rollbacks are required, the expired CBA a work in progress that, well, wasnt working for many. I certainly dont dislike Bettman, a thankless job, damned if he does, damned if he doesnt. No time for people spewing vitriol at Gary or the league, nor at Fehr, the players. Quite simply, I dont like, have little respect for the manner in which the NHL's gone about the process (in addition to having issues with a whole other range of business & on-ice issues but thats a novel). Had they shown some respect in dealing with the PA, Id have happily returned it. Very disappointing performance to date to say the least.

Killion is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2012, 11:01 PM
  #54
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
I think fan outrage is much larger when you strike during the world series, have replacement players and get the courts involved compared to a 'normal' lockout.
The same people who love to be outraged at Fehr for baseball's lockout seem to have little outrage with Bettman for his three lockouts, including the one that eliminated an entire season and playoffs.

RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2012, 11:26 PM
  #55
Gm0ney
Registered User
 
Gm0ney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,742
vCash: 1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crumblin Erb Brooks View Post
Years of labor strife....that one time that they lost part of a season to it...18 years ago?

And do you really think Bud Selig is worried that they are behind football in revenue, that they are "#2" sport in America? That they are #2 to a sport that they barely compete against in terms of timing (Baseball is April-October, football is October-January)? Do you think Bud Selig cant sleep at night because he cant keep people from watching football on Sundays? Do you think Bud Selig gives one damn about being #2 when every team is making money, and new TV contracts for MLB teams are astronomical?

You are loony if you think the MLB is in poor shape, and you are just not of this universe if you think Fehr caused it.

Blame the owners for not installing a salary cap if you have a problem with either of A-Rods contracts
Here are the World Series ratings since 1984:



I couldn't Google up a handy graph of Superbowl ratings, but I did discover that 77.6 million people watched the game in 1984 and 166.8 million watched it last year. You could probably turn that MLB ratings graph around and get the same idea.

But hey, game's in great shape. #2 but try harder? And Don Fehr had nothing to do with it!

Gm0ney is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2012, 11:31 PM
  #56
sawchuk1971
Registered User
 
sawchuk1971's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 618
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crumblin Erb Brooks View Post
Years of labor strife....that one time that they lost part of a season to it...18 years ago?

And do you really think Bud Selig is worried that they are behind football in revenue, that they are "#2" sport in America? That they are #2 to a sport that they barely compete against in terms of timing (Baseball is April-October, football is October-January)? Do you think Bud Selig cant sleep at night because he cant keep people from watching football on Sundays? Do you think Bud Selig gives one damn about being #2 when every team is making money, and new TV contracts for MLB teams are astronomical?

You are loony if you think the MLB is in poor shape, and you are just not of this universe if you think Fehr caused it.

Blame the owners for not installing a salary cap if you have a problem with either of A-Rods contracts
i guess you didn't get the memo that MLB owners WANTED to implement a salary cap...but fehr shot that idea down....the reason: the owners would not address their revenue disparities, so implementing a cap was easier way to avoid revenue sharing.......

fehr felt having a salary cap was just another anti-trust violation...just like the owners committing collusion in 1980s....

sawchuk1971 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2012, 11:42 PM
  #57
Wingsfan2965*
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 6,610
vCash: 500
The MLB was typically getting 40 million viewers on average during World Series games in the early 80s.

Most recently I believe they averaged less than 15 million. That's with a population increase of over 100 million.

Adding on to that, baseball's audience skews terribly to the 50+ demo.

Not a system to follow, at all. They've been three steps behind for years now, from lacking a salary cap to being foolish enough to not implement instant replay, to not exploring ways to speed the game up.

Wingsfan2965* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2012, 11:51 PM
  #58
Fugu
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Fugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pac NW
Country:
Posts: 29,629
vCash: 500
Quote:
Fehr also said he not spoken to Capitals defenseman Roman Hamrlik, who was highly critical of him recently, and that he had not personally talked to him in quite a while.

“Democracy can be a bit of a messy process at times,” Fehr said. “If you believe in free speech and you don’t believe in censorship, and you believe everybody is entitled to their opinion, they speak it. Sometimes, it’s what they mean and sometimes they get angry and frustrated and they vent.”
http://www.csnphilly.com/hockey-phil...695&feedID=704


Sounds reasonable to me.

Fugu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-24-2012, 11:55 PM
  #59
Wingsfan2965*
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 6,610
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
On the other hand he wouldn't be doing himself any favors if he said "The guy needs to keep his mouth shut."

Wingsfan2965* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2012, 12:00 AM
  #60
Crumblin Erb Brooks
Registered User
 
Crumblin Erb Brooks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Grenyarnia
Country: United States
Posts: 2,980
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gm0ney View Post
Here are the World Series ratings since 1984:



I couldn't Google up a handy graph of Superbowl ratings, but I did discover that 77.6 million people watched the game in 1984 and 166.8 million watched it last year. You could probably turn that MLB ratings graph around and get the same idea.

But hey, game's in great shape. #2 but try harder? And Don Fehr had nothing to do with it!
Yes, and the WS lasts 4-7 games, and the MLB plays 162 games a year. Ratings of a single event is a poor comparison tool for two sports when there is such a huge disparity in games played. It simply doesnt matter when the best teams are playing close to 200 games a year compared to 20 with the NFL.

Crumblin Erb Brooks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2012, 12:02 AM
  #61
Wingsfan2965*
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 6,610
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crumblin Erb Brooks View Post
Yes, and the WS lasts 4-7 games, and the MLB plays 162 games a year. Ratings of a single event is a poor comparison tool for two sports when there is such a huge disparity in games played. It simply doesnt matter when the best teams are playing close to 200 games a year compared to 20 with the NFL.
I think he was pointing out that ratings for the World Series have crumbled over the last 30 years...

Wingsfan2965* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2012, 12:15 AM
  #62
Crumblin Erb Brooks
Registered User
 
Crumblin Erb Brooks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Grenyarnia
Country: United States
Posts: 2,980
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
I think he was pointing out that ratings for the World Series have crumbled over the last 30 years...
And my point is that while World Series viewership is now largely made up of those from the two cities competing, it doesnt really matter if teams are making enough to cover costs over the course of a season. Local TV contracts are large, and last season 23 of 30 teams had 2 million+ tickets sold. The MLB isnt having trouble making money.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505125_1...ll-is-booming/

A dollar is a dollar whether it comes from ticket sales, television rights, or merchandising.

Crumblin Erb Brooks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2012, 12:42 AM
  #63
Fugu
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Fugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pac NW
Country:
Posts: 29,629
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
On the other hand he wouldn't be doing himself any favors if he said "The guy needs to keep his mouth shut."

???

Maybe this is what you would say. I posted what he DID say.

Fugu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2012, 01:41 AM
  #64
Wingsfan2965*
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 6,610
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
???

Maybe this is what you would say. I posted what he DID say.
Clearly misunderstood the point.

Wingsfan2965* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2012, 02:32 AM
  #65
Fugu
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Fugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pac NW
Country:
Posts: 29,629
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
Clearly misunderstood the point.

I understood your intent perfectly. You're attempting to dismiss the man's actual comments by suggesting that 'of course' he wouldn't say something else.

Whether or not that is something he actually believes or would want to say becomes irrelevant, which takes the discussion away from fact to baseless speculation. It's not about what you want to say he thinks or believes.

Is it remotely possible, in your view, that he actually believes it is a democratic process among the players, and that they aren't supposed to be censored?

Fugu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2012, 02:45 AM
  #66
Freudian
Patty likes beef
 
Freudian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Sweden
Posts: 29,133
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
I understood your intent perfectly. You're attempting to dismiss the man's actual comments by suggesting that 'of course' he wouldn't say something else.

Whether or not that is something he actually believes or would want to say becomes irrelevant, which takes the discussion away from fact to baseless speculation. It's not about what you want to say he thinks or believes.

Is it remotely possible, in your view, that he actually believes it is a democratic process among the players, and that they aren't supposed to be censored?
When there is only one way to answer the question the journalist asked him, no matter what he believes, the answer to the journalists question isn't all that interesting.

It is possible that Fehr feels that way. It's possible he doesn't. Common sense tells us he'd probably prefer players to keep a unified front in the media.

In the end it probably doesn't mean anything. It allows for pundits to speculate about the players cracking but it won't make the players actually crack.

Freudian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2012, 04:52 AM
  #67
Bourne Endeavor
Moderator
( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■)
 
Bourne Endeavor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,156
vCash: 13357
Quote:
Originally Posted by fantasybaseballchamp View Post
I'd consider it to be in good standing, like I said in another post it's definitely becoming more regional but with the shift in TV watching habits, their 162 game schedule and loyal fan bases provide huge content and that's so valuable right now, it's why even with the ratings sliding they doubled all their TV deals. Their online properties are printing money and they have a great revenue sharing system.

There's definitely flaws in the baseball system and I'm not saying the NHL could replicate it, there's just not enough ability to earn but the troubles baseball face are WILDLY over-exaggerated here.
I'll certainly agree the trails and tributes people claim the MLB goes through on here are definitely over-exaggerated but the rating slide is not something entirely new. They were simply more pronounced, at least according to some outlets. Granted, who knows if that was not intentionally disingenuous.

The issue for Baseball, at least when compared to hockey, is the system favors the top end teams significant, while the bottom suffer. While this might work for MLB, it would be a near death sentence in the much less financially stable NHL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crumblin Erb Brooks View Post
Relocation isnt destruction.

And the Expos didnt move until 9 year after the strike. Yes 1995 was their best team, but it hardly guaranteed that the Expos would have become a stable franchise.

I dont really worry about year-to-year viewship numbers, either. They are very dependent on which teams are in the Series.
Semantics really, to Expos fans, the team was destroyed.

Fair enough, although one can certainly make the argument that crushing their best season impacted attendance and viewership substantially.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
What do you think would happen to the Stanley Cup Finals ratings if Columbus played Florida.
I dunno, the mere shock might entice some people.

Fun aside, I see your point.

Bourne Endeavor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2012, 10:09 AM
  #68
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beefitor
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 37,777
vCash: 156
I highly doubt Fehr is to blame for MLB's decline. There has been a change in interest on a cultural level. Ask people my age; ask them why they don't watch baseball and not a single person will shake their fist and proclaim it's the fault of that pesky Fehr and his strike two decades ago. People find the sport boring. I know I'm personally annoyed that they give you every stat for every conceivable situation, which kills suspense. It's slow and deliberate in an age where people expect fast action and physical contact. The people in my generation who complain about the strike are diehard baseball fans who watch anyways. On top of that, the strike isn't responsible for people being less interested in the "boring" sport of baseball.

I think people are just looking for anything they can find as an excuse to sling mud at fehr, and a lot of exaggeration is going on.

__________________
Down in the basement, I've got a Craftsman lathe. Show it to the children when they misbehave.
Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2012, 10:25 AM
  #69
ScottyBowman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Detroit
Country: United States
Posts: 1,981
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
I highly doubt Fehr is to blame for MLB's decline. There has been a change in interest on a cultural level. Ask people my age; ask them why they don't watch baseball and not a single person will shake their fist and proclaim it's the fault of that pesky Fehr and his strike two decades ago. People find the sport boring. I know I'm personally annoyed that they give you every stat for every conceivable situation, which kills suspense. It's slow and deliberate in an age where people expect fast action and physical contact. The people in my generation who complain about the strike are diehard baseball fans who watch anyways. On top of that, the strike isn't responsible for people being less interested in the "boring" sport of baseball.

I think people are just looking for anything they can find as an excuse to sling mud at fehr, and a lot of exaggeration is going on.
Yes, baseball is boring for myself and the stats are ridiculous but I can't deny that there has been a resurgence of baseball attendance lately. Baseball is booming right now.

ScottyBowman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2012, 10:50 AM
  #70
Wingsfan2965*
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 6,610
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
I understood your intent perfectly. You're attempting to dismiss the man's actual comments by suggesting that 'of course' he wouldn't say something else.

Whether or not that is something he actually believes or would want to say becomes irrelevant, which takes the discussion away from fact to baseless speculation. It's not about what you want to say he thinks or believes.

Is it remotely possible, in your view, that he actually believes it is a democratic process among the players, and that they aren't supposed to be censored?
It's certainly possible, I'm pointing out that nobody should've expected him to say anything differently.

Wingsfan2965* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2012, 12:38 PM
  #71
thinkwild
Veni Vidi Toga
 
thinkwild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,278
vCash: 500
I guess we could compare it to Bettmans reaction when Snider frinstance was reported to have made comments disparaging to his side. There was a total denial he said it and a reassurance from all that there was no differing opinions of what should be the owners position as advanced by Bettman. No need for democracy here.

Unions in general i think spend too much time focusing on internal dissent and their scab problems rather than acknowledging solidarity will never be 100% and dealing with it. So it is good for Fehr and the players to recognize this. For sure there will be differing interests and views amongst the disparate player situations. And that is fine, and when they vote it will be majority rule. And the smart players would realize that is the time for expressing their dissent.

thinkwild is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2012, 12:48 PM
  #72
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyBowman View Post
Yes, baseball is boring for myself and the stats are ridiculous but I can't deny that there has been a resurgence of baseball attendance lately. Baseball is booming right now.
In Detroit it is, and just in time too... FSD is negotiating a deal that could pay the Tigers $30 to $40M a year.

Consider that all of the NHL is getting $200M a year from NBC.


But baseball is dead to me... Collusion/Free agency killed it. I was an Expos fan/Dawson fan. In 87, the owners colluded to bring salaries down. The Expos offered Dawson a paycut.

he toured the league looking for a contract and nobody would give him one. In Chicago, he presented the GM with a blank check and said, fill it in and I'll play for you.

He signed for $500,000 + $150,000 in bonuses.

Angry with the Expos, I became a Cubs fan.... But as Dawson grew older and went to Boston and Florida... I lost interest. I had fun watching the Jays win the World Series... baseball lost interest for me.

How could anything in baseball match the Detroit-Colorado rivalry for me? It couldn't.

The other thing with baseball is... When I was a kid, watching a baseball game was a treat. The Expos might be on CBC 20 times in year. Once TSN came around, you might get 40-50 games.

When I was a cubs fan as a 16 year old, I'd sit in my room, holding the radio at an angle trying to get the broadcast from WGN and I'd go downtown to pick up the Chicago paper on Sundays to read about the Cubs. I'd go to Cole's and read Bill James baseball stat's book for two hours, or go to the library and scour through the Baseball encyclopedia for hours.


These days, anyone can be a fan of any team and watch all their games and read every single thing there is about them on the Internet....

And baseball just isn't interesting enough to to keep my interest with that sort of information/saturation available to me.

Truth is, it's a lot more fun to read about baseball and imagine baseball than it is to watch it.

RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2012, 12:50 PM
  #73
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
In the US, go to a high shcool football game, high school basketball game and high school baseball game.
Even the elite baseball programs draw little interest outside of mom and dad.

Again, nothing to do with Fehr, everything to do with baseball as entertainment.

RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2012, 12:57 PM
  #74
Fugu
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Fugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pac NW
Country:
Posts: 29,629
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
In the US, go to a high shcool football game, high school basketball game and high school baseball game.
Even the elite baseball programs draw little interest outside of mom and dad.

Again, nothing to do with Fehr, everything to do with baseball as entertainment.

Yet MLB franchise values keep rising, along with their TV contracts values.

Fugu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2012, 01:02 PM
  #75
robla
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 29
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Yet MLB franchise values keep rising, along with their TV contracts values.
big hint:

the sports they play is AMERICA's PAST TIME!! and not some niche sports like hockey..

robla is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:11 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.