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LW John Gaudreau - Boston College, HE (2011, 104th overall, Calgary)

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Old
11-24-2012, 09:56 PM
  #376
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Originally Posted by superhakan View Post
Those flames fans would be wrong.

Gaudreau is a very good player, but Baertschi is on a whole other talent level.
Not really man, their talent levels are very similar, it's just that we know with some certainty that Sven's talent will translate to the NHL and John is a bit of a wildcard due to his size.

Anyone who's seen Gaudreau play has said his talent level is a 10/10, so no, Sven is not on a whole other talent level.

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11-24-2012, 10:30 PM
  #377
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Talent can be acknowledged in may different ways. Offensively, Gaudreau is without a doubt in the same ballpark as Sven in terms of upside and ability. When it comes to other areas of the game however Baertschi is far more refined and as a result his upside as a complete player is significantly higher and more attainable.

If they both were to hit there "up most" potential it would then be like comparing Patrick Kane to Marian Hossa. For me personally I take the Hossa type player everyday of the week.

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11-24-2012, 11:06 PM
  #378
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@ HLF, hopefully were in a position to them both

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11-24-2012, 11:13 PM
  #379
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@ HLF, hopefully were in a position to them both
Wouldn't that be nice?
I think it's about time we start seeing some high end players come out of this organization on a consistent basis.

From the very start I have taken a "wait and see" approach with Gaudreau, but I must admit that it is becoming increasingly difficult to muzzle my optimism at this point. I am really looking forward to seeing what he can accomplish at the WJC's this year.

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11-24-2012, 11:24 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by superhakan View Post
Name a single 5'8'' bottom 6 forward without a physical/defensive element to his game?
Edit; nevermind, misread.

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11-25-2012, 09:32 AM
  #381
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Originally Posted by superhakan View Post
Clutch ability to score? Baertschi lead the playoffs in scoring.

After seeing both players on the same ice surface, it really wasnt even close to me. They have similar talent, but Baertschi just does it easier. He oozed talent and explosiveness that Gaudreau just didn't.
I totally disagree with you here. Sven is going to be a very good player but skill wise he does not measure up to Gaudreau, not even that close actually. If Gaudreau can translate his game into the NHL I have zero doubt he will be the Flames future leading scorer year after year. Kid has off the chart skill.

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11-25-2012, 09:41 AM
  #382
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got a question for Flames fan, Why are they always going off the board with long term prospect?

Do management think the crop of star players at the NHL level will still be going strong in 7-8 years? That's my problem with picks like Jankowski and Gaudreau. They may pan out, but not for a long time.

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11-25-2012, 09:59 AM
  #383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zathronas View Post
got a question for Flames fan, Why are they always going off the board with long term prospect?

Do management think the crop of star players at the NHL level will still be going strong in 7-8 years? That's my problem with picks like Jankowski and Gaudreau. They may pan out, but not for a long time.
gaudreau was a 4th round pick. not exactly "off the board".

jankowski was going in th first or early second. So wasnt much of a reach at 21 either. HF likes to hate on flames. Seems like popular thing to do.

If u want high end talent but never pick top 5 these boom/bust typeare best way.

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11-25-2012, 10:07 AM
  #384
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Originally Posted by superhakan View Post
Those flames fans would be wrong.

Gaudreau is a very good player, but Baertschi is on a whole other talent level.
No they are aren't as you can see there are a few who believe he is more skilled.

Sven is better defensively but JG probably is a more gifted offensive player.

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11-25-2012, 10:11 AM
  #385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zathronas View Post
got a question for Flames fan, Why are they always going off the board with long term prospect?

Do management think the crop of star players at the NHL level will still be going strong in 7-8 years? That's my problem with picks like Jankowski and Gaudreau. They may pan out, but not for a long time.
As Haatley said JG was a 4th round pick that isn't off the board, and there were 2 other teams willing to take Janko in the first round right after the Flames so he was going in the first. Many say that Janko is comparable to Bjugstad who is arguably the top center in the NCAA he was also drafted out of high school and took half a season to transition to the NCAA. Why would the Flames take Janko because he is follows Bjugstad he could be a top center prospect.

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11-25-2012, 10:20 AM
  #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haatley View Post
gaudreau was a 4th round pick. not exactly "off the board".

jankowski was going in th first or early second. So wasnt much of a reach at 21 either. HF likes to hate on flames. Seems like popular thing to do.

If u want high end talent but never pick top 5 these boom/bust typeare best way.
I don't hate the Flames, I'm just perplexed by some of their choices. You have to admit their track record isn't the best in the NHL. That being said they did alright in recent years.

I'm not saying Jankowski is a bust, I do think he has great potential. It's just that I think Calgary should go for more polished prospect as they will sorely need help sooner rather then later.

and your right 4 round isn't bad I thought he was drafted sooner.

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11-25-2012, 10:41 AM
  #387
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Originally Posted by Zathronas View Post
I don't hate the Flames, I'm just perplexed by some of their choices. You have to admit their track record isn't the best in the NHL. That being said they did alright in recent years.

I'm not saying Jankowski is a bust, I do think he has great potential. It's just that I think Calgary should go for more polished prospect as they will sorely need help sooner rather then later.

and your right 4 round isn't bad I thought he was drafted sooner.
Is it really that bad? Chucko and pelech busted hard. But phaneuf is an nhl captain. Tim erixon is a top d prospect. Nemisz an still be a good 3rd liner. They rarely have had 2nd round picks. With their third a few years ago they nabbed max reinhart who looks good. Brodie was a 4th rounder who looks good. Sven is a stud.

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11-25-2012, 10:46 AM
  #388
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apparently 5'7'' 150 now.
If he puts on another 35 pounds he'll be great...

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11-25-2012, 10:49 AM
  #389
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If he puts on another 35 pounds he'll be great...
See: every other short NHL player's weight

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11-25-2012, 10:56 AM
  #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zathronas View Post
got a question for Flames fan, Why are they always going off the board with long term prospect?

Do management think the crop of star players at the NHL level will still be going strong in 7-8 years? That's my problem with picks like Jankowski and Gaudreau. They may pan out, but not for a long time.
When the Flames were going after tough, western Canadian grinders, the team drafted terribly. Picks like Chucko, Pelech, they all amounted to nothing.

If we're going to pick after 10, I'd rather go full boom or bust. 3rd and 4th liners can easily be found in free agency.

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11-25-2012, 11:01 AM
  #391
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At least Rocco Grimaldi has incredible strength and balance for his size to have a chance.
Amazing how things change, Rocco(the flake) Grimaldi couldn't tie Gaudreau's skate laces now.

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11-25-2012, 11:09 AM
  #392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zathronas View Post
I don't hate the Flames, I'm just perplexed by some of their choices. You have to admit their track record isn't the best in the NHL. That being said they did alright in recent years.

I'm not saying Jankowski is a bust, I do think he has great potential. It's just that I think Calgary should go for more polished prospect as they will sorely need help sooner rather then later.

and your right 4 round isn't bad I thought he was drafted sooner.
Sutter saw a problem with our drafting and slowly began turning it around the current scheme really started around 2007/2008 (but Sutter was still trading our picks away).

Unfortunately it's hard to show the track record of a staff that's only had 5 or 6 drafts. We haven't had any top 10 picks that could immediately jump into the nhl so instead we're picking guys who long term could fill that top 10. ie. Backlund, Erixon, Sven, and Janko. (Nemisz was seen as a bit of a replacement pick after his late teammate RIP Mickey )

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11-25-2012, 12:17 PM
  #393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zathronas View Post
got a question for Flames fan, Why are they always going off the board with long term prospect?

Do management think the crop of star players at the NHL level will still be going strong in 7-8 years? That's my problem with picks like Jankowski and Gaudreau. They may pan out, but not for a long time.
I'm more optimistic than most about Gaudreau's time frame on making the NHL. His style isn't that dependent on strength anyway, but the rest of his game is very polished and looks to be very translatable.

The way I see it is he can do a million squats a day, he's still gonna get pushed around in the corners. That will never be his game so I don't think that his strength should be what's holding him back, especially if he's effective regardless of strength, which he has been at every level so far.

Kids never finish college if they can go pro early. Right now Gaudreau is destroying the NCAA so it might be time soon for him to face a bigger challenge, and see how his game translates to the AHL.

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11-25-2012, 12:35 PM
  #394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zathronas View Post
I don't hate the Flames, I'm just perplexed by some of their choices. You have to admit their track record isn't the best in the NHL. That being said they did alright in recent years.

I'm not saying Jankowski is a bust, I do think he has great potential. It's just that I think Calgary should go for more polished prospect as they will sorely need help sooner rather then later.

and your right 4 round isn't bad I thought he was drafted sooner.
Past drafting record is always indicative of current standards or the future. This is one of Hfboards biggest misconceptions that somehow still persists.

Teams change management, and scouting staff. The Flames did this and it shows. In the past few drafts the scouting has been much improved.

You can't use past failures as an argument for future ones. It doesn't make sense when drafting strategy has changed and the people instituting it has changed.

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11-25-2012, 12:49 PM
  #395
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IMO it's smart for the Flames to go boom or bust with their picks because they haven't had a top ten pick in a long time so instead of going for the Mark MacNeil's they go for the Bartschi's, Jankowski's, etc. However It's still kind of funny that they traded down and didn't take Teravainen.

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11-25-2012, 01:13 PM
  #396
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Originally Posted by FoppaForsberg View Post
IMO it's smart for the Flames to go boom or bust with their picks because they haven't had a top ten pick in a long time so instead of going for the Mark MacNeil's they go for the Bartschi's, Jankowski's, etc. However It's still kind of funny that they traded down and didn't take Teravainen.
At first I wanted TT as well.

But you have a safe pick in Sieloff and the boom/bust pick in Janko rather than the one slightly safer boom/bust pick in TT. Plus TT is a winger not the C that the Flames need still.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haatley View Post
Is it really that bad? Chucko and pelech busted hard. But phaneuf is an nhl captain. Tim erixon is a top d prospect. Nemisz an still be a good 3rd liner. They rarely have had 2nd round picks. With their third a few years ago they nabbed max reinhart who looks good. Brodie was a 4th rounder who looks good. Sven is a stud.
But from Chucko and Pelech to Janko/Gaudreau and Sven, you can definitely see a change in scouting focus. Swift skaters with natural skill rather than big bruisers.

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11-25-2012, 01:39 PM
  #397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zathronas View Post
got a question for Flames fan, Why are they always going off the board with long term prospect?

Do management think the crop of star players at the NHL level will still be going strong in 7-8 years? That's my problem with picks like Jankowski and Gaudreau. They may pan out, but not for a long time.
Other guys on the board at the time (prior to trading down to 21st): Ceci (lower ceiling), Girgensons (lower ceiling), Maata (lower ceiling), Teravainen (long term as well). Neither of the d prospects, AFAIK, is expected to become anything beyond a second pairing guy, and Girgensons' ceiling is supposedly a middle-six centre.

Teravainen was similar to Jankowski, for different reasons. He's considered longer-term because of physical attributes (fairly short, very thin), while Jankowski is considered longer-term because he's just very raw and somewhat unknown coming out of a HS league. Both guys have higher projected ceilings than the other guys available at the time, and one thing the Flames desperately need is high ceiling prospects. A guy who will help in the immediate future as an average second line forward or #4 dman isn't what the team needs; they need to build a high-end core, and the Jankowski pick, while more of a risky pick, is directed at that goal.

Gaudreau, as everyone else has said, was a 4th round pick. There's nobody in the 4th round who's considered a player who will be helpful in the near future on their draft day. He was unquestionably the best choice they could've made at that position, and it looks like they'd have been entirely justified had they taken him in the earlier two rounds as well.

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11-25-2012, 01:42 PM
  #398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoppaForsberg View Post
IMO it's smart for the Flames to go boom or bust with their picks because they haven't had a top ten pick in a long time so instead of going for the Mark MacNeil's they go for the Bartschi's, Jankowski's, etc. However It's still kind of funny that they traded down and didn't take Teravainen.
TT is overrated. Janko has produced just as well in points as TT, if not better in their said leagues. They're both similar in age for their draft, I think Janko is only like 2 weeks younger, and he's a little bit more raw just coming out of highschool hockey. When and if they make it to the NHL, it will be around the same time.

Not saying TT is bad but their is a reason that he dropped from where everyone expected him to go.

And back on topic, I'm happy with Gaudreau's progression and am astounded that anyone could say he is a 'reach' in the fourth round and a bad pick because he is a long term project? Seriously?

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11-26-2012, 08:35 AM
  #399
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I don't think the Flames have really gone that far off the board in most picks.

Jankowski was projected to be a late 1st, early 2nd which is where he went.

Gaudreau was a bit more off the board, but he was a 4th rounder. That's typically a good point to make a riskier pick.

The jury is still out on Jankowski and Gaudreau, but neither looks like a bad pick at this point.

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11-26-2012, 09:46 AM
  #400
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Originally Posted by Rolen View Post
TT is overrated. Janko has produced just as well in points as TT, if not better in their said leagues. They're both similar in age for their draft, I think Janko is only like 2 weeks younger, and he's a little bit more raw just coming out of highschool hockey. When and if they make it to the NHL, it will be around the same time.

Not saying TT is bad but their is a reason that he dropped from where everyone expected him to go.

And back on topic, I'm happy with Gaudreau's progression and am astounded that anyone could say he is a 'reach' in the fourth round and a bad pick because he is a long term project? Seriously?
SM-Liiga and High school hockey... All the same right?

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