I have no idea what you guys are talking about. I can't see a "far superior" car - I see one with consistently less top speed and one that had big issues keeping going early on. On Alonso's side, there's a Massa that's looked stronger than him for good parts of the second half of the year. "Mediocre" my lower back. Well-deserved title is far more like it. Beating the type of adversity Vettel did today, that's a champion's job. I won't talk down Alonso though, he put up a hell of a fight.
Red Bull was at worse equal to Ferrari in the 1st half, in the 2nd half Red Bull was much better, they even looked like last season.
This is Ferrari's fault, Red Bull and Vettel did their job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IEC
Well, it is not Vettels fault that Mr. Fuentes is not a mechanic or engnieer and can't help Alonso like he does with all the other spanish athletes.
Amazing how that only translates to Vettel's quality, and doesn't question the car being "far superior".
I honestly think Vettel's a fantastic driver and a deserving champ won't take anything away from him and of course Alonso's a fantastic driver too...but c'mon man, Red Bull has had the superior cars all year long, this is not even a secret, it's not an excuse simply the truth...
Fernando Alonso could literally have right now 5 championships under his belt, he's lost 3 in the last race of the season, and people still have the gall to call him "luckiest guy out there", when Vettel spins crashes, has like 5 pit stops etc... give me a break
I honestly think Vettel's a fantastic driver and a deserving champ won't take anything away from him and of course Alonso's a fantastic driver too...but c'mon man, Red Bull has had the superior cars all year long, this is not even a secret, it's not an excuse simply the truth...
Fernando Alonso could literally have right now 5 championships under his belt, he's lost 3 in the last race of the season, and people still have the gall to call him "luckiest guy out there", when Vettel spins crashes, has like 5 pit stops etc... give me a break
He could also have just 1.
Do you remember how lucky he got in 2006? Schumacher's engine blows with a 20 second+ lead in Japan for the first time in 6 years, giving Alonso a 10 point lead.
Then Schumacher suffers a puncture in the opening laps giving him no chance to come back in final race (but still finishes 4th)
Luck works both ways, but it seems people forget that sometimes
Either way, Alonso is a fantastic driver, as is Vettel.
Do you remember how lucky he got in 2006? Schumacher's engine blows with a 20 second+ lead in Japan for the first time in 6 years, giving Alonso a 10 point lead.
Then Schumacher suffers a puncture in the opening laps giving him no chance to come back in final race (but still finishes 4th)
Luck works both ways, but it seems people forget that sometimes
Either way, Alonso is a fantastic driver, as is Vettel.
of course luck goes both ways, although I just find it funny when people call Alonso the "luckiest guy" when he seriously hasn't had any "luck factors" recently that I can remember and if anything Vettel's certainly had "luck" , like today, he was most definitely lucky I think to even keep racing and not be out after that crash with Senna
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Originally Posted by Schalkenullvier
certainly not as stupid as calling schumacher and vettel mediocre
I wouldn't pay attention to those comments, specially the one about "mediocre" German drivers, that's just an ignorant comment, Vettel and Schumi are without a doubt some of the greatest driver's ever not to mention Schumi obviously the greatest ever...it's dumb to turn this into a nationality thing
Are you saying that Ferrari had a better car than Red Bull?
If you think so...
I am not saying that, and I'm not thinking that. But we know that it wasn't as reliable as the Ferrari, for example, which cost Vettel many points. I mainly find it ridiculous how people believe to be able to tell the difference between a car and its driver to such degrees.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panteras
(...) and people still have the gall to call him "luckiest guy out there", when Vettel spins crashes, has like 5 pit stops etc... give me a break
Today, that only happened when Vettel was taken out by some random guy making a mistake. That certainly was a lucky strike of fortune for him. (EDIT: Or maybe when the collision in front got him two badly needed spots.) Not saying that there aren't instances when it's going the other way - there always are.
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Originally Posted by MrWoof
This. It's amazing to me that Vettel fanboys actually think he's a better driver than Alonso.
It's not like there's any factual argument against that, other than being magically able to tell the exact percentages of what's due to car and driver, where the latter's durability figures in, and so on. The only thing amazing is people trying to make factual statements about anyone being clearly better.
of course luck goes both ways, although I just find it funny when people call Alonso the "luckiest guy" when he seriously hasn't had any "luck factors" recently that I can remember and if anything Vettel's certainly had "luck" , like today, he was most definitely lucky I think to even keep racing and not be out after that crash with Senna
I wouldn't pay attention to those comments, specially the one about "mediocre" German drivers, that's just an ignorant comment, Vettel and Schumi are without a doubt some of the greatest driver's ever not to mention Schumi obviously the greatest ever...it's dumb to turn this into a nationality thing
Well that luck comment I made in a moment of frustration because the last 2 or 3 races there have been quite a few things going alonso's way. It's stupid to try to say who has luck on their sides, there's always 2 sides... you bring up his collision and vettel was indeed lucky to be able to drive on, but you could easily say that he was unlucky to be driven into by someone in the first place.
