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The 2012-2013 NHL Lockout Discussion Thread

View Poll Results: Will there be any NHL games before 8/15/13?
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Old
11-23-2012, 05:05 PM
  #301
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http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/86...l-star-weekend

All games through December 14th canceled and the All Star Game in Columbus is canceled. No surprises here though sad to see that this league has had to cancel another ASG to a city that is promised to get it.

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11-23-2012, 10:26 PM
  #302
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http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/86...l-star-weekend

All games through December 14th canceled and the All Star Game in Columbus is canceled. No surprises here though sad to see that this league has had to cancel another ASG to a city that is promised to get it.
On the short list of things Columbus and Glendale have in common... add 'had an NHL All-Star game cancelled on them' to the list.

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11-23-2012, 11:11 PM
  #303
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On the short list of things Columbus and Glendale have in common... add 'had an NHL All-Star game cancelled on them' to the list.
They're pretty much the only pro sports franchise in existence that has had more bad luck during their years then our beloved yotes

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11-24-2012, 12:38 AM
  #304
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On the short list of things Columbus and Glendale have in common... add 'had an NHL All-Star game cancelled on them' to the list.
Hell! Maybe Gary Bettman and the NHL can help save Columbus too by owning the team and having over 3 years of uncertainty while turning many of the fans there as a bunch of kool-aid drinkers as well.

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11-24-2012, 09:57 AM
  #305
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Hell! Maybe Gary Bettman and the NHL can help save Columbus too by owning the team and having over 3 years of uncertainty while turning many of the fans there as a bunch of kool-aid drinkers as well.
Not sure I understand the kool aid part

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11-24-2012, 10:14 AM
  #306
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NHL is still locked out? I'm pissed off at Fehr and the players for waiting so long to start negotiating. You can hate Betman all you want, but he has fought to keep this team here in Arizona, and we quite possibly could be playing hockey right now if the players union didn't wait so long to start talks. I'm pissed off that they are arguing over atleast 6 figures a year while I struggle making 5 figures. F them.

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11-24-2012, 10:43 AM
  #307
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Yeah. I'm sick and tired of these moron players running their mouths over the league not doing what they want them to do. It's like a preschooler saying they are taking their ball and going home.

Well good! Go home!! You don't deserve my hard earned money. F you!

My solution: the NHL gives them one more deal. A take it or leave it, if you will. Let the "union" vote on it and whatever players don't want it, the KHL will be waiting for you. Make up the missing 10 or so super star positions by those who are grateful to be there.

This will never happen, but should. Oh well. Just cancel the damn thing. All the fun things throughout the year are gone. Smith would have been an all star for sure!

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11-24-2012, 11:19 AM
  #308
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Yeah. I'm sick and tired of these moron players running their mouths over the league not doing what they want them to do. It's like a preschooler saying they are taking their ball and going home.

Well good! Go home!! You don't deserve my hard earned money. F you!

My solution: the NHL gives them one more deal. A take it or leave it, if you will. Let the "union" vote on it and whatever players don't want it, the KHL will be waiting for you. Make up the missing 10 or so super star positions by those who are grateful to be there.

This will never happen, but should. Oh well. Just cancel the damn thing. All the fun things throughout the year are gone. Smith would have been an all star for sure!
It pisses me off that professional sports stars feel they are entitled to something. Yes, they work hard, they go to the weight room, attack the tee(baseball analogy) regularly, and work on their fundamentals, but they make 6 figures minimum while we struggle to go to a live game. I know there are people that don't struggle to go to a game, but I do. I can't go to every game. If I could, I would buy season tickets.

I'm making life work with a paycheck, and that works for me. These guys want even more money than atleast 5x than what I make. If they aren't happy in the NHL, then go find something else. Same could be said for me, that's why I keep looking for another job. But NHL is a hobby, and I live 15 minutes from jobing, and I would prefer they keep playing so I can go to a game when I have the opportunity.

My biggest complaint is the players waited to start negotiating, while the NHL was ready all along. Betman is not the problem, it's Fehr and the players.

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11-24-2012, 03:24 PM
  #309
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My biggest complaint is the players waited to start negotiating, while the NHL was ready all along. Betman is not the problem, it's Fehr and the players.
We might have seen this coming when the PA fired Paul Kelley(?) to bring in an aggressive guy like Fehr. When you go to the pound and adopt the biggest, meanest, mouth-frothiest rotty you can find, it's not because you want to take it to the dog park to make friends. It's because you want to watch it teach the yorkiepoo next door not to **** on your lawn.

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11-24-2012, 03:59 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by awfulwaffle View Post
It pisses me off that professional sports stars feel they are entitled to something. Yes, they work hard, they go to the weight room, attack the tee(baseball analogy) regularly, and work on their fundamentals, but they make 6 figures minimum while we struggle to go to a live game. I know there are people that don't struggle to go to a game, but I do. I can't go to every game. If I could, I would buy season tickets.

I'm making life work with a paycheck, and that works for me. These guys want even more money than atleast 5x than what I make. If they aren't happy in the NHL, then go find something else. Same could be said for me, that's why I keep looking for another job. But NHL is a hobby, and I live 15 minutes from jobing, and I would prefer they keep playing so I can go to a game when I have the opportunity.

My biggest complaint is the players waited to start negotiating, while the NHL was ready all along. Betman is not the problem, it's Fehr and the players.
Well to be fair, while I don't know what you do for a living, I'm willing to bet you're not amongst the top 600 people in the world at your job.

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11-24-2012, 04:27 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by awfulwaffle View Post
It pisses me off that professional sports stars feel they are entitled to something. Yes, they work hard, they go to the weight room, attack the tee(baseball analogy) regularly, and work on their fundamentals, but they make 6 figures minimum while we struggle to go to a live game. I know there are people that don't struggle to go to a game, but I do. I can't go to every game. If I could, I would buy season tickets.

I'm making life work with a paycheck, and that works for me. These guys want even more money than atleast 5x than what I make. If they aren't happy in the NHL, then go find something else. Same could be said for me, that's why I keep looking for another job. But NHL is a hobby, and I live 15 minutes from jobing, and I would prefer they keep playing so I can go to a game when I have the opportunity.

My biggest complaint is the players waited to start negotiating, while the NHL was ready all along. Betman is not the problem, it's Fehr and the players.
To be fair to the players and the NHLPA here, it is quite known that the NHL didn't want to have the CBA talks overshadow the playoffs. There was plenty of time even before the start of last season to get the talks going and both sides failed to do so then.

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We might have seen this coming when the PA fired Paul Kelley(?) to bring in an aggressive guy like Fehr. When you go to the pound and adopt the biggest, meanest, mouth-frothiest rotty you can find, it's not because you want to take it to the dog park to make friends. It's because you want to watch it teach the yorkiepoo next door not to **** on your lawn.
This is the thing that many of those who are pro-business and automically side with the business fail to get. The players didn't want someone who is going to cave into everything the owners want but to put up a big fight for what they want instead while sending a message to the owners to not **** with us.


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11-25-2012, 02:04 AM
  #312
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Well to be fair, while I don't know what you do for a living, I'm willing to bet you're not amongst the top 600 people in the world at your job.
I'm not in the top 600 as far as salaries goes....

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11-25-2012, 05:36 AM
  #313
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http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_...2P34Z9E0MbV9cN

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It’s hard to believe the owners of the Maple Leafs, who stand to lose at least $100 million if the season is flushed, will stand by silently as the league seeks nothing less than unconditional surrender from the players. It is impossible to believe the owners of the Canadiens, Canucks, Flyers, Red Wings, Penguins and Blackhawks will continue to cede authority.

Perhaps no one will listen to Dolan of the Rangers — who stands to lose at least $60 million if the puck isn’t dropped just as his team would be denied its shot at the Cup — just as no one listened to him a few years ago when he petitioned the board to dismiss Gary Bettman, but silence from the Blueshirts’ CEO simply would be unacceptable.

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11-25-2012, 11:15 AM
  #314
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That's two out of thirty.

It's, so, so, so much worse in the players side. The vast majority of union membership is going to lose a huge chunk of their lifetime earnings that they will never recoup.

How many players are in the union? 700? How many will ever sign a six year deal or longer? Two or three percent? How many would be seriously financially impacted by the five percent variance rule for individual contracts? The same two or three percent? How many players actually make it before an arbitrator each year? Five maybe six guys out of seven hundred? IIRC, the league has backed off tye ELC bit. None of those hills are worth dying on. Not even close. 98% of these players will lose NO WHERE near what they will lose from a cancelled season by accepting these contracting limitations.

The one contracting issue I see as a legitimate point of contention is the ufa eligibility. I image the owners move back on that as soon as the players accept that delinked salaries will never, ever, ever be a possibility. Not even hybrid delinkage and not even in the first two years, and not even in the first year. Salaried will be linked and prorated this season. Demanding otherwise is completely absurd. Accept linked and prorated salaries in year one, and linked salaries in the remaining years of the CBA and I think the NHL very quickly accepts increased "make whole" payment, increased revenue sharing, backs off UFA changes, and may even move to six or seven year max contract term limits.

On the NHL's side, I really think their main goals were immediate 50/50 and the 5% variance. The ELC and UFA stuff would've probably been a big win, but I think they can deal with it as is. The "make whole" business really takes the luster off of the immediate 50/50, but hey, the NHL initially proposed it. I personally dont think ELCs, UFA eligibility, or the arbitration process are all that broken. Back diving, cap circumventing contracts are embarrassing and we all know the NHL has hated them all along. Five percent variance rule is necessary, IMO. I think the "make whole" on the table is already beyond generous. The revenue sharing could probably increase, though. I'd personally like to see some changes that allow teams to retain some salary when trading players. I think that benefits both sides.

How about this for term limits on contracts?

26 years old or younger = 10yr limit
27 years old = 9yr limit
28 years old = 8yr limit
29 years old = 7yr limit
30 years old = 6yr limit
31 years and up = 5yr limit

With five percent variance limitations, I really doubt you will see any 33 year olds getting five year deals. No way. There is no incentive for the players to retire once their effectiveness is limited. Guys would rather suck, and continue getting huge checks. But eliminates Kovalchuk, Parise, and Suter type deals that pay them pennies when they are old men so that they'll just hang em up and the cap hit stays low the whole time.

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11-25-2012, 01:47 PM
  #315
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I'm not in the top 600 as far as salaries goes....
I'm willing to be you're not in the top 600 at your job either. My point is you likely don't possess a skill that is rare yet coveted much less be amongst the top %1 in the world at that skill. Not meaning to be offensive here, hell I don't either, I'm just saying there is a pretty easy case to be made for these players making the money they do.

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11-25-2012, 04:34 PM
  #316
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It's a huge exaggeration to say that the NHL has the top 600 or 700 players in the world. I would argue that the top line on each team are the best players in the world but I think the 3rd and 4th liners could easily be replaced with players from any of the better leagues in Europe. Case in point is how not so great the present crop of nhler' are doing now overseas.

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11-25-2012, 06:01 PM
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^ semantics. Say they are in the top fifteen hundred. Does that change his point at all?

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11-25-2012, 06:10 PM
  #318
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I'm willing to be you're not in the top 600 at your job either. My point is you likely don't possess a skill that is rare yet coveted much less be amongst the top %1 in the world at that skill. Not meaning to be offensive here, hell I don't either, I'm just saying there is a pretty easy case to be made for these players making the money they do.
I dont think it's an easy case, at all. Players should take 57% of revenue, while contributing zero percent in expenses and risk? I think that is absurd. Especially in what equates to a niche sport that gives these guys top of the line accommodations and benefits. They get NFL treatment, NBA paychecks, and play in a glorified arena football league (at least in 70% of their markets).

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11-25-2012, 06:14 PM
  #319
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The bottom half of players in the NHL as I have stated before are not any better than most players playing at the higher end of European leagues yet they earn probably twice as much. I would say the bottom half of players in the league need the league a lot more than the reverse. They are waging a fight for the richest players which puts their own livelihood at stake. Doesn't make much sense to me when you consider the time limit on their careers.

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11-25-2012, 06:17 PM
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Does a decertification mean contracts are no longer guaranteed?

With decertification can teams now designate that the NHL head office negotiate contracts for all players? Plenty of other leagues in world for players to go. In fact players are doing this now.

If answers are yes then the NHL wins with NHLPA strategy.

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11-25-2012, 11:57 PM
  #321
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I dont think it's an easy case, at all. Players should take 57% of revenue, while contributing zero percent in expenses and risk? I think that is absurd. Especially in what equates to a niche sport that gives these guys top of the line accommodations and benefits. They get NFL treatment, NBA paychecks, and play in a glorified arena football league (at least in 70% of their markets).
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The bottom half of players in the NHL as I have stated before are not any better than most players playing at the higher end of European leagues yet they earn probably twice as much. I would say the bottom half of players in the league need the league a lot more than the reverse. They are waging a fight for the richest players which puts their own livelihood at stake. Doesn't make much sense to me when you consider the time limit on their careers.
I was speaking in general, not in regards to these lockout negotiations.

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11-26-2012, 04:00 AM
  #322
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Does a decertification mean contracts are no longer guaranteed?

With decertification can teams now designate that the NHL head office negotiate contracts for all players? Plenty of other leagues in world for players to go. In fact players are doing this now.

If answers are yes then the NHL wins with NHLPA strategy.
As of now decertification is only a negoating tactic. If the players decided to go through with it the NHL as we know it would be done with.
No cap, no draft, everybody's UFA etc.


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11-26-2012, 06:30 AM
  #323
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As of now decertification is only a negoating tactic. If the players decided to go through with it the NHL as we know it would be done with.
No cap, no draft, everybody's UFA etc.
Works for me! December 21st is just around the corner. Ha ha ha!

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11-26-2012, 06:38 AM
  #324
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As of now decertification is only a negoating tactic. If the players decided to go through with it the NHL as we know it would be done with.
No cap, no draft, everybody's UFA etc.
yes but if the NHLPA threatens decertification I would counter with changing the structure in which NHL contracts are negotiated.

Instead of 30 teams negotiating independently you would have 1 league competing with other leagues for talent. A league which can then decide that as a whole they want to pay X% of HRR on player salaries.

Furthermore, there goes guaranteed contracts.

This is the nuclear option and I actually think it works against the players. It's the nuclear tactic but I don't believe the players know what exactly is down that rabbit hole.

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11-26-2012, 08:00 AM
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Yeah, if they decertified they could just certify as soon as abritation is over. NBAPA did it so the NHLPA can do the same.

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