HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Rank them: Doughty, Pietrangelo, Letang, Karlsson

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-25-2012, 03:18 PM
  #351
LAX attack*
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Danger Zone
Country: United States
Posts: 14,544
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to LAX attack*
Quote:
Originally Posted by topshelf15 View Post
You dont understand hockey, this is looking like the biggest fact
Your consistent use of emoticons makes me doubt this claim very much. Most Sens fans are stabbing your position in the back anyways.

LAX attack* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2012, 03:22 PM
  #352
TheProfessional
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 60
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milan the Great View Post
I disagree, and I think you would have too if you watched the series. Points don't tell the whole story in that series. It was a really low scoring series. Lundqvist had a shutout streak that lasted from the beginning of game three until the middle of game four. Anderson had a shutout streak that lasted from the early of the first in game four until the second period in game six. It was really tight, checking hockey.

However, Karlsson was still effective. Again, you showed you didn't watch the series when you said Karlsson was 'scared' during the series when he wasn't. He played some good hockey and I'm sure most Rangers fans would agree.

Nobody is a homer for picking their guy in this poll. Especially not Sens fans. He won the Norris for a reason.
how can you say he played good hockey? his team lost, he had 1 point. you and other sens fans state his job is to put up points, lead the offense and while being sound on defense. he put up 1 point and was even in the series. stop making excuses about low scoring. sounds like a pretty poor job to me. and i did watch the series, i watched every game on TV. his only point was a fluke goal too where he blindly flung it to the middle without any teammate close.

i am a bruins fan and i can say watching that series karlsson wasnt as impressive as i had seen him during regular season games.

look at drew doughty, when he isnt scoring he is playing great defense and playing nasty. he is a great hitter and one of the smarter players in the league with and without the puck. you think doughty would have sat there and taken the speed baggin by boyle? hell no, doughty has a great mean streak and would not have stood for that.

the sens fans should be barred from this thread, erik karlsson is a great player but i bet if you polled nhl scouts doughty would easily win

its also funny you mention shutout streaks that span 1.5 games like its an eternity;such is often the case with playoff hockey


Last edited by TheProfessional: 11-25-2012 at 03:27 PM.
TheProfessional is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2012, 03:42 PM
  #353
Minister of Offence
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 23,021
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProfessional View Post
how can you say he played good hockey? his team lost, he had 1 point. you and other sens fans state his job is to put up points, lead the offense and while being sound on defense. he put up 1 point and was even in the series. stop making excuses about low scoring. sounds like a pretty poor job to me. and i did watch the series, i watched every game on TV. his only point was a fluke goal too where he blindly flung it to the middle without any teammate close.

i am a bruins fan and i can say watching that series karlsson wasnt as impressive as i had seen him during regular season games.
Was anyone on the Sens as impressive as you saw in the regular season. Here, I'll help you out because you clearly need it. No, none of them were nearly as good as they were in the regular season.

The Rangers keyed Karlsson like nobody else in the first round because that was the key to stopping the Sens that rode that player to the playoffs after being labelled a lottery team pre-season. They also dove infront of pucks like few teams I've ever seen...I always say, if you have to dive infront of every shot a team takes in the playoffs you probably aren't gonna make it all the way.

Individuals don't look good when their team is getting outplayed. This is very simple. But that game he scored that fluke goal, he was probably also the best player on the ice for either side.

Minister of Offence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2012, 03:53 PM
  #354
topshelf15
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,458
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by porknbeans1000 View Post
Your consistent use of emoticons makes me doubt this claim very much. Most Sens fans are stabbing your position in the back anyways.
You have yet to state anything that makes me think otherwise ,you seem to think you have an understanding that would be greater than most on this board and iam callin BS

topshelf15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2012, 04:03 PM
  #355
simplefan
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 429
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProfessional View Post
how can you say he played good hockey? his team lost, he had 1 point. you and other sens fans state his job is to put up points, lead the offense and while being sound on defense. he put up 1 point and was even in the series. stop making excuses about low scoring. sounds like a pretty poor job to me. and i did watch the series, i watched every game on TV. his only point was a fluke goal too where he blindly flung it to the middle without any teammate close.

i am a bruins fan and i can say watching that series karlsson wasnt as impressive as i had seen him during regular season games.
Karlsson has proven he can score in playoffs. He was really impressive offensively in 2010. Defensively, he was a trainwreck.

But in 2012 playoffs, he played a safe, sound defensive game while still being mobile. He never played "scared". He still deked the hell out of Rangers, still shot the puck, still passed it, still held his own.

However, the team had NO FINISH. While them 3rd liners were majic in regular season, they couldnt even buy a goal.

Actually, for Karlsson to be impressive for you, he would have to score about 7 goals, no assists in first round because the forward could not even score off his passes. Thats how bad it was.

Again, Paul Maurice said on TSN that Ottawa generated many chances, but couldnt score. Playing an offensively-minded game against a shotblocking machine is kinda tough. But IMO, Rangers were slighty outplayed and it was pretty tight.

The reason NY won is because they had BETTER FINISH.

simplefan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2012, 04:14 PM
  #356
topshelf15
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,458
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProfessional View Post
how can you say he played good hockey? his team lost, he had 1 point. you and other sens fans state his job is to put up points, lead the offense and while being sound on defense. he put up 1 point and was even in the series. stop making excuses about low scoring. sounds like a pretty poor job to me. and i did watch the series, i watched every game on TV. his only point was a fluke goal too where he blindly flung it to the middle without any teammate close.

i am a bruins fan and i can say watching that series karlsson wasnt as impressive as i had seen him during regular season games.

look at drew doughty, when he isnt scoring he is playing great defense and playing nasty. he is a great hitter and one of the smarter players in the league with and without the puck. you think doughty would have sat there and taken the speed baggin by boyle? hell no, doughty has a great mean streak and would not have stood for that.

the sens fans should be barred from this thread, erik karlsson is a great player but i bet if you polled nhl scouts doughty would easily win

its also funny you mention shutout streaks that span 1.5 games like its an eternity;such is often the case with playoff hockey
I guess to you the small skill game in hockey has no merit ,and the norris should only be awarded to the toughest biggest players .EK is not a physical player and never will be ,but he continually gets run down here because of it .Like i said before to compare guys like PIE ,Doughty,Chara Weber to EK is wrong because how they play is so far different its not funny.

Comparable defensmen to EK are guys like Enstrom ,Letang ,OEL etc,not the latter .Its not the first time a smaller more skilled defenseman has won the norris ,and it probably wont be the last.So unless EK gets worse as he develops,i cant see him not being in the conversation for the leagues most impactful defenseman award

topshelf15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2012, 04:22 PM
  #357
simplefan
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 429
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Was anyone on the Sens as impressive as you saw in the regular season. Here, I'll help you out because you clearly need it. No, none of them were nearly as good as they were in the regular season.

The Rangers keyed Karlsson like nobody else in the first round because that was the key to stopping the Sens that rode that player to the playoffs after being labelled a lottery team pre-season. They also dove infront of pucks like few teams I've ever seen...I always say, if you have to dive infront of every shot a team takes in the playoffs you probably aren't gonna make it all the way.

Individuals don't look good when their team is getting outplayed. This is very simple. But that game he scored that fluke goal, he was probably also the best player on the ice for either side.
Well said!! Rangers made a gameplan around Karlsson. Because, Karlsson IS the system in Ottawa. The system is based around Karlsson. So, to shutdown Karlsson is to shutdown the team and the system.

No defenseman in the league can be a gamebreaker in the 3 zones like Karlsson.

Can someone tell me if we put Doughty in Karlsson place, would Ottawa have won?

I would say not necessarily. Why? Ottawa was not physically intimidated. Game 1, yes. But throughout the series, Ottawa had the better hand. They had good help from Neil, Carkner, ect... They just needed some scoring.

But Im doubting, if Ottawa had another bruising defenseman, would Rangers be intimidated and they would be frustrated that their super "Agressive Forecheck" doesnt work?

simplefan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2012, 04:29 PM
  #358
simplefan
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 429
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by topshelf15 View Post
I guess to you the small skill game in hockey has no merit ,and the norris should only be awarded to the toughest biggest players .EK is not a physical player and never will be ,but he continually gets run down here because of it .Like i said before to compare guys like PIE ,Doughty,Chara Weber to EK is wrong because how they play is so far different its not funny.

Comparable defensmen to EK are guys like Enstrom ,Letang ,OEL etc,not the latter .Its not the first time a smaller more skilled defenseman has won the norris ,and it probably wont be the last.So unless EK gets worse as he develops,i cant see him not being in the conversation for the leagues most impactful defenseman award
Preach!!! The Norris is for "the most impactful defenseman award" The one who has the most impact in all 3 zones. Last year, Karlsson was the most impactful, anywhere you put him on the ice. Karlsson has a great motor, stamina, triple shifts sometimes NOT EVEN ON PP.

If we're not talking about Karlsson, honestly, I would take Weber before Doughty because he's way more consistent than him but Doughty is more offensive.

simplefan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2012, 04:42 PM
  #359
topshelf15
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,458
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplefan View Post
Preach!!! The Norris is for "the most impactful defenseman award" The one who has the most impact in all 3 zones. Last year, Karlsson was the most impactful, anywhere you put him on the ice. Karlsson has a great motor, stamina, triple shifts sometimes NOT EVEN ON PP.

If we're not talking about Karlsson, honestly, I would take Weber before Doughty because he's way more consistent than him but Doughty is more offensive.
Out of the BIG boys Chara is the best defensively followed by Weber and flip a coin between Doughty and Pie,offensively its the exact other way around with a valid arguement for doughty being the most gifted over PIE for offense .But when you have to break a decades old record for outscoring the next best defenseman for the norris ,that sort of puts to rest voters not taking physical defensive presense into account doesnt it ???

topshelf15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2012, 04:56 PM
  #360
Joey Moss
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Joey Moss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 21,986
vCash: 226
Pietrangelo
Karlsson
Doughty
Letang

Joey Moss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2012, 05:04 PM
  #361
LAX attack*
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Danger Zone
Country: United States
Posts: 14,544
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to LAX attack*
So it looks like the Rangers found a strategy that works. Shut down Karlsson and the Sens are toast. Let's see if Ottawa's current lack of alternative puck moving defensemen will be more of a problem in the coming season.

LAX attack* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2012, 05:05 PM
  #362
The Expert
Registered Expert
 
The Expert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ottawa
Country: Jersey
Posts: 11,191
vCash: 500
Karlsson
Doughty
Letang
Pietrangelo

Quote:
Originally Posted by porknbeans1000 View Post
So it looks like the Rangers found a strategy that works. Shut down Karlsson and the Sens are toast. Let's see if Ottawa's current lack of alternative puck moving defensemen will be more of a problem in the coming season.
To be fair, they were pushed to the brink of elimination by a massive underdog and 8th seed. If that's considered a successful strategy for the 1st seeded Rangers, the Sens should be alright.

The Expert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2012, 05:09 PM
  #363
simplefan
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 429
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by topshelf15 View Post
Out of the BIG boys Chara is the best defensively followed by Weber and flip a coin between Doughty and Pie,offensively its the exact other way around with a valid arguement for doughty being the most gifted over PIE for offense .But when you have to break a decades old record for outscoring the next best defenseman for the norris ,that sort of puts to rest voters not taking physical defensive presense into account doesnt it ???
Assuredly, in a league in which scoring is going downhill and we're entering in another dead-puck era. So, Karlsson exploit speaks volumes about his impact on his team and the league. When coaches from other teams have to make a gameplan against Karlsson, a FREAKING DEFENSEMAN.

I agree with you Chara is the best out of the big boys. Chara is such a beast at 6'9 and so strong, it's not even possible. His shot is feared leaguewide. Goalies are struggling to find ways to stop it. He was the most impactful in 2009.

simplefan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2012, 05:14 PM
  #364
Milan the God*
king karlsson
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,806
vCash: 860
Quote:
Originally Posted by porknbeans1000 View Post
So it looks like the Rangers found a strategy that works. Shut down Karlsson and the Sens are toast. Let's see if Ottawa's current lack of alternative puck moving defensemen will be more of a problem in the coming season.
You're acting as if every team has the ability to shut down Karlsson. Great players are hard to shut down. Don't forget, the Rangers were #1 in the conference for a reason. Sens were #8 for a reason. As the Sens get better, teams won't be able to put extra attention on Karlsson like the Rangers did in the playoffs.

But I'm not worried that Karlsson got shut down versus the Rangers. Remember when the Habs shut down Crosby a couple years ago?

Milan the God* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2012, 05:14 PM
  #365
simplefan
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 429
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by porknbeans1000 View Post
So it looks like the Rangers found a strategy that works. Shut down Karlsson and the Sens are toast. Let's see if Ottawa's current lack of alternative puck moving defensemen will be more of a problem in the coming season.
Wow, it seems we agree on something now. Karlsson is alone in Ottawa, creating offense. It's a problem, especially with no Top 6 Forward except Spezz and Michalek to convert his passes.

Doughty is amazing, Piet more but Karlsson was the most impactful defenseman in the league last year. He was Ottawa's offense. He was Ottawa's defense.

simplefan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2012, 08:50 PM
  #366
TheProfessional
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 60
vCash: 500
so it went from being a low scoring series to sens having no finish. you cite ONE year in which he lit up the playoffs but was a trainwreck defensively. hahahah no defenseman can be a gamebreaker in all 3 zones like karlsson? theres prob 2-3 that do it BETTER than him in all 3 zones combined. you sens fans are very funny, its absurd how blind you guys are

TheProfessional is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-25-2012, 10:58 PM
  #367
simplefan
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 429
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProfessional View Post
so it went from being a low scoring series to sens having no finish. you cite ONE year in which he lit up the playoffs but was a trainwreck defensively. hahahah no defenseman can be a gamebreaker in all 3 zones like karlsson? theres prob 2-3 that do it BETTER than him in all 3 zones combined. you sens fans are very funny, its absurd how blind you guys are
Trust me Karlsson was a trainwreck defensively until early in 2011-2012 season when he bulked up and Paul Maclean really talked to him and called him out. Paul Maclean was saying, we dont want Karlsson to play 30 mins and play 15 mins for us and 15 mins against us. And this year, on almost every night, he played 25+ mins, helping significantly his team.

Doughty, at this moment, is the best due to his offensive game and much appreciated intimidating physical play. But, Pietrangelo looks to be the best out of them all. And Karlsson is not far off. I think Karlsson is smart enough to be a real effective defenseman.

All three play differently, but each one is important in his own way. Which one I would chose for a team? It would depend of the system implemented and the talent level of the team.

simplefan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-26-2012, 12:09 AM
  #368
Reverend Mayhem
Freeway's closed man
 
Reverend Mayhem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Port Coquitlam, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,851
vCash: 940
Send a message via Skype™ to Reverend Mayhem
Doughty
Karlsson
Pietrangelo
Letang

Reverend Mayhem is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:16 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.