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Winnipeg Jets Prospect Thread 2012-13

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11-25-2012, 11:58 AM
  #876
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Just realized Scheif and MacKinnon have the same scoring numbers - 20 gs/ 23 as/ 43 pts - but MacKinnon has done that in one less game. Mackinnon is 2 yrs younger - and playing in an offence first league - but both are having very good seasons.

it seems like Scheif is involved in most goals Barrie scores and is being a great leader for their squad. His time in the OHL has definitely helped. Time for a new challenge, likely next year though.

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11-25-2012, 12:02 PM
  #877
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Just realized Scheif and MacKinnon have the same scoring numbers - 20 gs/ 23 as/ 43 pts - but MacKinnon has done that in one less game. Mackinnon is 2 yrs younger - and playing in an offence first league - but both are having very good seasons.

it seems like Scheif is involved in most goals Barrie scores and is being a great leader for their squad. His time in the OHL has definitely helped. Time for a new challenge, likely next year though.
Honestly, I expect Scheifele to force his way onto the NHL roster next year. That's how top prospects develop, they force the hands of management into placing them on the roster. I love Scheifele's offensive awareness, I think the Jets will need that offense and Scheifele will force them to keep him on the roster, likely as a 2nd line C. The room is open on the roster next year, with Antropov, Ponikarovsky as uncertain to whether they will be back, and Wellwood all but gone, IMO. I would not "hand" him a spot, make him earn it, but give him a real chance, I think they'll like what they see. No good comes of forcing players down levels if they are ready, prospects can be ruined that way just as easily as by rushing them, IMO, which is something that gets overlooked here sometimes, IMO.

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11-25-2012, 12:06 PM
  #878
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Honestly, I expect Scheifele to force his way onto the NHL roster next year. That's how top prospects develop, they force the hands of management into placing them on the roster. I love Scheifele's offensive awareness, I think the Jets will need that offense and Scheifele will force them to keep him on the roster, likely as a 2nd line C. The room is open on the roster next year, with Antropov, Ponikarovsky as uncertain to whether they will be back, and Wellwood all but gone, IMO. I would not "hand" him a spot, make him earn it, but give him a real chance, I think they'll like what they see. No good comes of forcing players down levels if they are ready, prospects can be ruined that way just as easily as by rushing them, IMO, which is something that gets overlooked here sometimes, IMO.
I am starting to think this as well Holden. I always thought he would take a year in the AHL as well but his physical progression in skating and size has been quicker than I expected. I am now of the belief that he will be able to be a solid top 6 asset by next season and he will kick the door down. Honestly he is starting to look ready now but I think he would be best served dominating this year in juniors.

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11-25-2012, 01:02 PM
  #879
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Just realized Scheif and MacKinnon have the same scoring numbers - 20 gs/ 23 as/ 43 pts - but MacKinnon has done that in one less game. Mackinnon is 2 yrs younger - and playing in an offence first league - but both are having very good seasons.

it seems like Scheif is involved in most goals Barrie scores and is being a great leader for their squad. His time in the OHL has definitely helped. Time for a new challenge, likely next year though.
I agree. Imagine what two more years in the OHL could have done for Burmistrov.

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11-25-2012, 01:10 PM
  #880
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I agree. Imagine what two more years in the OHL could have done for Burmistrov.
He never would have 2 more years in OHL. He is a late birthday, so he would have played one more year in OHL at most. Last year he would not have returned for his overage year, would have been in the AHL if he wasn't with Winnipeg.

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11-25-2012, 04:14 PM
  #881
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He never would have 2 more years in OHL. He is a late birthday, so he would have played one more year in OHL at most. Last year he would not have returned for his overage year, would have been in the AHL if he wasn't with Winnipeg.
Ok, so one more year in Barrie (with Scheifele and Telegin), and then a year in the AHL. Would have helped his development IMO.

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11-25-2012, 05:08 PM
  #882
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Ok, so one more year in Barrie (with Scheifele and Telegin), and then a year in the AHL. Would have helped his development IMO.
Agree.

Hopefully this year in the AHL will help Burmie for next year, and many years to come.

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11-25-2012, 05:34 PM
  #883
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Olsen and the Rockets in Everett is the only WHL game tonight. Brassard and the Bulls up 3-0 right now on the 67's. It's Sunday and I'm way too lazy to do the whole long post. And there's no college hockey today either. Last week's CHL highlights will be up soon, it's a long one thanks to Scheif and Kosmo

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11-25-2012, 05:45 PM
  #884
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11-25-2012, 06:09 PM
  #885
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I agree. Imagine what two more years in the OHL could have done for Burmistrov.
In that same hindsight though would Hawerchuk tried as hard as he did to convince Scheifele to join the Colts? Would we have even drafted him if he weren't playing #1 C on a bad team?

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11-25-2012, 06:09 PM
  #886
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Thanks Hammer! 8:28 - Kosmachuk hits Mitchell with an awesome stretch pass for a slight breakaway. Impressive.

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11-25-2012, 06:18 PM
  #887
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Scheifele's goal at 6:03 is beaauuuuuuutiful. Oh the confidence in the kid to go for it like that. No hesitation, no mistake, Sproul had no idea what happened until the puck was in the net.

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11-25-2012, 06:20 PM
  #888
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Honestly, I expect Scheifele to force his way onto the NHL roster next year. That's how top prospects develop, they force the hands of management into placing them on the roster. I love Scheifele's offensive awareness, I think the Jets will need that offense and Scheifele will force them to keep him on the roster, likely as a 2nd line C. The room is open on the roster next year, with Antropov, Ponikarovsky as uncertain to whether they will be back, and Wellwood all but gone, IMO. I would not "hand" him a spot, make him earn it, but give him a real chance, I think they'll like what they see. No good comes of forcing players down levels if they are ready, prospects can be ruined that way just as easily as by rushing them, IMO, which is something that gets overlooked here sometimes, IMO.
Honestly I think it would be great if he managed to force Little back onto the wing. I think we keep Little at C because he's such a good two-way player, but his playmaking could use a little to be desired. It could also force Little into taking a more offensive role and shooting more, which he's quite good at. He has posted very solid shooting %'s, his problem is that he just doesn't tend to take a lot of shots. I think moving him onto the wing could open him a lot more for that. Plus we don't lose anything in the circle as Scheifele is a good right-handed faceoff man.

A top six of: Kane - Jokinen - Wheeler + Ladd - Scheifele - Little or any of them interchanged sounds pretty good to me.

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11-25-2012, 06:24 PM
  #889
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(...)

A top six of: Kane - Jokinen - Wheeler + Ladd - Scheifele - Little or any of them interchanged sounds pretty good to me.
I think that could work well - perhaps swap Ladd and Kane, if Kane needs a bit more sheltering. Either of:

Kane - Jokinen - Wheeler (Wheeler as the setup guy for the shooters)
Ladd - Scheifele - Little

...and swap 1A and 1B, or just Ladd and Kane, depending on who needs more sheltered minutes for a particular game.

Ladd - Jokinen - Wheeler
Kane - Scheifele - Little

That 2nd line would be very interesting: Scheifele and Little are both very good defensively, and all 3 of those guys have a great shot. Kane could have an even bigger year playing with those two.

Now we just need hockey back, and Scheifele needs to force TNSE's hand. That could be a pretty durned good top 6.

EDIT: that's a pretty big top 6 too, other than Little. Average has to be 6'2" and around 200 - 205lbs.

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11-25-2012, 06:27 PM
  #890
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I think that could work well - perhaps swap Ladd and Kane, if Kane needs a bit more sheltering. Either of:

Kane - Jokinen - Wheeler (Wheeler as the setup guy for the shooters)
Ladd - Scheifele - Little

...and swap 1A and 1B, or just Ladd and Kane, depending on who needs more sheltered minutes for a particular game. Now, we just need hockey back, and Scheifele needs to force TNSE's hand. That could be a pretty durned good top 6.
I agree the parts are pretty interchangeable. I'd also agree that we'd probably shelter the second line, so doing Kane - Scheifele - Little would make a lot of sense.

Then Ladd - Jokinen - Wheeler as a top line with big guys sounds good to me also.

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11-25-2012, 07:02 PM
  #891
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In that same hindsight though would Hawerchuk tried as hard as he did to convince Scheifele to join the Colts? Would we have even drafted him if he weren't playing #1 C on a bad team?
Who knows, those are a lot of variables and it's impossible to know what would have happened.

Just thinking out loud about Burmistrov's development if he played an extra year in the OHL, another World Junior (Russia won that year), and then a season in the AHL.


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11-25-2012, 07:25 PM
  #892
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Olsen and the Rockets in Everett is the only WHL game tonight.
If anyone needs a laugh check out the call of the game by the Kelowna announcer, it is on right now....
http://ckfr.player.amri.ca/

When the Rockets score the PBP guy screams out a tortured sounding "AAAAAAAAAAAAAUGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH"!!!!!!


Olsen just scored BTW.

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11-25-2012, 08:34 PM
  #893
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I agree the parts are pretty interchangeable. I'd also agree that we'd probably shelter the second line, so doing Kane - Scheifele - Little would make a lot of sense.

Then Ladd - Jokinen - Wheeler as a top line with big guys sounds good to me also.
(Weekend at work so I have a few minutes to scan the site )
Ya tough call. I have mixed feelings about sheltering/notsheltering Jokinen.

On one hand he got beat pretty bad last year when he wasn't sheltered. -6.3 RelCorsi (3rd worse on team)... our 3rd worse RelCorsi was Thorburn (-21.8).

On the other hand Jokinen faced way tougher QoC then he ever would face on the top line on the Jets. He faced RelCorsiQoC 2.056 (2nd highest in the league and on his team; Glencross beat him) and 47.9 OZS% isn't super defensive but it is going up hill. Compare that to Slater who had our toughest RelCorsiQoC 0.900 although much tougher OZS% of 28.5. Also, the people Jokinen beat for RelCorsi on his team were his linemates, so maybe it's more Glencross' and Iginla's fault.

Little is better 2way for toughs relative to Wheeler but probably isn't strong enough setup guy for Kane/Ladd-Jokinen... hmm be very interesting... but I'm leaning towards...

toughs: Ladd - Jokinen - Wheeler
sheltered: Kane - Scheifele - Little

Also, Little can take some centering duties to help guide/develop Scheifele. I still don't think Scheifele would usurp Burmistrov but it would be close... but Burmistrov would probably do much better against toughs on the third line...

Quote:
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Who knows, those are a lot of variables and it's impossible to know what would have happened.

Just thinking out loud about Burmistrov's development if he played an extra game in the OHL, another World Junior (Russia won that year), and then a season in the AHL.
I do think there be a bit of a "butterfly effect" with Scheifele if Burmistrov was in the OHL. Before he got traded Scheifele was going to go the college route which I'm sure would of changed how events unfolded... but who knows if we would have needed him if Burmistrov had developed better.

I still think we would have seen Burmistrov on the Jets last year if he had two years in the OHL. With a stunted development he earned his spot last year and was one of the strongest players in the start of the year... so give a slightly (most likely) more developed Burmistrov, and I doubt he would have missed it again.


Last edited by garret9: 11-25-2012 at 10:34 PM.
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11-25-2012, 10:08 PM
  #894
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Burmi has to pick it up in the AHL, before i consider him a legit 2nd line center and a prospect who would be slotted ahead of Scheifele - for future 2nd line duty - at the moment.

9 pts in 19 games is still a concern for me.

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11-25-2012, 10:30 PM
  #895
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Burmi has to pick it up in the AHL, before i consider him a legit 2nd line center and a prospect who would be slotted ahead of Scheifele - for future 2nd line duty - at the moment.

9 pts in 19 games is still a concern for me.
As, I've shown before, using league equivalences that compare what they'd both be expected to do for points per game next year in the big leagues, on average of course, is about the same... with Burmi having a ridiculously unstable low 4% shooting percentage, and his main linemates not doing so great (Maxwell, Jaffray, Gagnon, Tremblay and Whitmore)with them also having low for their norm sh% (exception Whitmore).
On top of this, Burmistrov already is accustomed to the NHL game speed, pace and grit, and this extrapolation didn't take in mind the higher level of competition in the AHL (which nhlnumbers.com had estimated a change of 20% which is quite severe).
Also, I know it might be a bit humbling to us Jets fans, but most scouts do place Burmistrov higher in both the now and ceiling department. I even recently inquired personally (via twitter lol) to Pronman at Hockey Prospectus, and he was on this wavelength, but thought that the gap is close enough that some scouts differ on this.
Personally though I think it's any man's spot. I can see either one of them being able to pull above the other, both short term and long term, and either one of them would have to earn it. I will give the short term advantage to Burmistrov though due to experience and past with being able to produce at much higher level of competition.

(sorry about the length but I probably won't be able reply anything for a while)


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11-25-2012, 10:30 PM
  #896
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Burmi has to pick it up in the AHL, before i consider him a legit 2nd line center and a prospect who would be slotted ahead of Scheifele - for future 2nd line duty - at the moment.

9 pts in 19 games is still a concern for me.
Agreed. On a side note I've really enjoyed watching him on the PK.

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11-26-2012, 11:03 AM
  #897
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I've said for a while that I believe pairing Kane with Scheifele makes sense for the Jets. Scheifeles game and strengths pair well with Kanes imo. Scheifele has made 2 wingers produce the past 2 years and I don't think it is a coincidence.

We have one shoot first center and one more of the distributing the puck center type , and if you also pair Wheeler with Jokinen you balance the lines well as I see it , as Wheeler is really good as big winger that can and does generate a lot of assists.

This leaves some strong players to complete the lines, Ladd , Little , maybe Burmistrov as RW on the Scheifele line ...but probably Little. This is presuming of course that Mark is ready and from what I see , I think he is to be honest.


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11-26-2012, 12:23 PM
  #898
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As, I've shown before, using league equivalences that compare what they'd both be expected to do for points per game next year in the big leagues, on average of course, is about the same... with Burmi having a ridiculously unstable low 4% shooting percentage, and his main linemates not doing so great (Maxwell, Jaffray, Gagnon, Tremblay and Whitmore)with them also having low for their norm sh% (exception Whitmore).
On top of this, Burmistrov already is accustomed to the NHL game speed, pace and grit, and this extrapolation didn't take in mind the higher level of competition in the AHL (which nhlnumbers.com had estimated a change of 20% which is quite severe).
Also, I know it might be a bit humbling to us Jets fans, but most scouts do place Burmistrov higher in both the now and ceiling department. I even recently inquired personally (via twitter lol) to Pronman at Hockey Prospectus, and he was on this wavelength, but thought that the gap is close enough that some scouts differ on this.
Personally though I think it's any man's spot. I can see either one of them being able to pull above the other, both short term and long term, and either one of them would have to earn it. I will give the short term advantage to Burmistrov though due to experience and past with being able to produce at much higher level of competition.

(sorry about the length but I probably won't be able reply anything for a while)
Bear with me on this, I realize the stats show similar possible point production, but I get the sense that Scheifele fits more in their plans longer-term than Burmi. Burmi's end-of-season dispute with Noel and management and KHL rumblings couldn't have gone over well. Then, Burmi and his agent try to mend the fence by playing in the AHL (cause he didn't really have a choice), but his production is down. Now, this is a contract year for Burmi, play well and produce, make some coin. Play well, but don't produce, make less $$ come contract negotiations.

I hope I'm wrong, but at the moment, I see a greater chance Scheifele is here and filling a top 6 forward spot. For all we know, there might be a better chance Burmi signs a deal in the KHL next fall than with Jets (new CBA permitting)

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11-26-2012, 12:35 PM
  #899
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To be clear, I hope I'm wrong with Burmi signing in KHL, not Scheifele being a top 6 fwd next year. That would be great if he's contributing as a top 6 in 2013/14.

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11-26-2012, 12:47 PM
  #900
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Burmi has to pick it up in the AHL, before i consider him a legit 2nd line center and a prospect who would be slotted ahead of Scheifele - for future 2nd line duty - at the moment.

9 pts in 19 games is still a concern for me.
Context.

I prefer to say, "second on the team in points".

I also think O'Dell has an NHL future, even if it's as a 3rd line scoring forward.


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